Luiz
4 posts
Oct 05, 2008
2:47 AM
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Hello, people!
Since I started studying harmonica I tried a couple of different harmonicas, like Marine Bands, Blues Harps, Pro Harps, Special 20, Hering Free Blues...
But I always come back to the Marine Band, I can't really explain the reason, I think it's the whole combination of sound, how it feels in the mouth, weight, etc.
But the more I play it the more my lips beg me to stop playing, the reed plates cut my lips and the swollen comb hurts them.
I already tried to seal the comb using mineral oil, but with no success, the comb still swallows.
I also tried scraping off the swollen wood with a knife but I ended breaking one comb..
So, how you guys deal with that?
Last Edited by on Oct 05, 2008 2:48 AM
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Tryharp
11 posts
Oct 05, 2008
3:43 AM
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Hi Luiz,
I have been sealing them with beeswax, melt the wax( you need to be careful as bees wax can catch fire at reasonably low temperatures, use a double boiler and no flames around ) , dip it in then scrape off the excess. You wont have too much problems with swelling after this. Dave Payne of Elk river Harmonicas shows on Youtube how to seal with Salad bowl finish.
With respect to the broken comb, if it was just a tine, you can successfully areldite it back on ( I've done it and it works fine. )
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kudzurunner
121 posts
Oct 05, 2008
11:16 AM
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When I get a MB in which the comb swells up seriously enough that it starts to negatively impact my playing, I take the small blade on a Swiss Army knife and I carefully shave the swollen teeth down so that I've once again got a flat surface. Of course, when the comb dries out, the teeth are now inset a bit. But the moment you start salivating into the harp, the comb swells back up and you're OK.
I find that about one harp out of 10 swells up badly enough that I need to trim it. Not many, in other words.
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Carl_Comfort
28 posts
Oct 05, 2008
2:23 PM
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You can use a fine vile aswell. Vile maybe not proper english, the thing to carefully scrape wood with. It's less drastic than the knife.
My experience is I get the tooth often swollen. When I take the reedplates off and but em back on while I had just been playing. Might wanna avoid that.
If your lips get sore, you can still play tongue blocked or practise octaves.
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Patrick Barker
141 posts
Oct 05, 2008
5:03 PM
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I've noticed that either marine bands stop swelling as much after playing them several times or I just get used to it... I'm not really sure which one.
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"Without music, life would be a mistake" -Nietzsche
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wheezer
36 posts
Oct 06, 2008
2:23 AM
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The pearwood that MB Handmade combs are made from is like a sponge. If you have a stripped down MB, wet your finger and put it on the comb and watch the moisture vanish into the wood.
After trying several different products I now use a water based varnish on the combs. Not only does this seal the comb but it also lets you get the comb completely flat by building up several coats and then sanding back on the plate mating surfaces. The varnish will fill all the depressions in the wood. Mind you, this can take about ten coats to achieve but couple this with using bolts, including two through the tines at the front of the comb (very, very careful drilling) and you will have a very airtight MB Handmade.
The MS Marine Band appears to use a different wood for the comb, and it does not appear to absorb moisture as readily as the pearwood, however, these combs also benefit from being varnished and adding bolts to the front of the comb to hold the plates down. A word of warning for the MS comb;
these are even more fragile than the handmade pearwood combs.
If you want to drill the tines this is the method I use.
Remove everything from the comb. Mark and drill the tines between 3 & 4 and 7 & 8 using a drill fixed to a drill stand (you would have to have a very steady hand to do this freehand). I use 10BA nuts and bolts for fixing so the drill size you require would be a 1.8mm for this.
Now refit the blow plate using pins (handmade) or bolts (MS). Now run the drill through the previously drilled comb just enough to mark the blow plate. Do NOT drill right the the plate while it is fixed to the comb! The reason for this is that the drill bit is so tiny that as it bites through the brass it can 'kick' and break the tine from the comb. With the blow plate marked it can be removed from the comb and be drilled right through. Repeat this process for the draw plate. Another word of warning. On the draw plate the reeds are exposed. Put something soft (a piece of cardboard, foam, etc that you can press the comb and plate into to protect the reeds and keep the unit level while you mark and then drill the draw plate.
Using this method you can end up with an MB of either type which is actually airtight and very playable.
On the other hand you can save yourself lots of grief and go and buy a Suzuki Promaster in the first place.
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Luiz
5 posts
Oct 09, 2008
12:10 PM
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Hey, guys!
Thank you very much for all the tips!
They are all very helpful.
I think I will try sealing the comb again but with beeswax this time, let's see how it goes!
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Anonymous
Guest
Oct 10, 2008
3:16 AM
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luiz,
heres a link detailing how to do the bees wax thing.
http://www.harpl.com/200188818.html
I didnt follow it word for word, but it is a good guide. As I said before, be aware that attached to this article was a lot of people warning against melting bees wax in a pan (as stated in step 26), one person had been burnt badly trying to do it.
Jim
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Tryharp
13 posts
Oct 10, 2008
3:18 AM
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luiz,
heres a link detailing how to do the bees wax thing.
http://www.harpl.com/200188818.html
I didnt follow it word for word, but it is a good guide. As I said before, be aware that attached to this article was a lot of people warning against melting bees wax in a pan (as stated in step 26), one person had been burnt badly trying to do it.
Jim
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CJames
15 posts
Nov 11, 2009
1:16 AM
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In terms of sealing a comb with beeswax - where do you actually apply the wax? I've used the shave down method then varnished the shaved end of the comb, but this process is rather tedious and requires a skilled hand. Mine came out ok in the end but i'd much prefer to avoid this method and try the waxing.
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KingoBad
130 posts
Nov 11, 2009
5:50 AM
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I say soak your lips in saltwater to toughen 'em up like sailors do toughen their hands for ropes.
A little blood never hurt anybody and it will improve your stage presence. Just think of being like a Gene Simmons of harmonica drooling blood as you play! It will be awesome!
Of course kissing all the chicks you bag by being so cool might be a problem, but who needs to kiss 'em anyway.
Of course you could go the pansy way of sealing your combs with butcher block oil too, but hell - you've got a great thing going now!
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barbequebob
68 posts
Nov 11, 2009
10:57 AM
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Personally, beeswax can be dangerous to work with because you can suffer an extreme burn if you're not careful. A better way would be once the comb is sanded flat, use a polyurethane based sealing agent and allow it to fully dry and de-gas overnight.
Richard Sleigh sells Marine Band kits, which has the sealing and the opening of the backs done, but minus the single most important ingredient of the customized harp, and that's the reed work, and he sells them unassembled for about $50 at http://www.customharmonicas.com. The sealing job he does is a full sealing job, and not the partially sealed job (the outer edges only) that you see on the Marine Band Deluxe, Hering 1923 Vintage HRP, Hering Master Blues and Hering Delta Blues.
Partially sealed combs can still swell if it's in the hands of someone who both plays with too much breath force and a very wet mouth. Combs that swell quicker are ones that have been cut too close to the knot of the tree.
Other than an expensive custom harp or one of Richard Sleigh's Marine Band kits, the only two stock harmonicas with a fully sealed wooden comb are the Seydel 1847 Classic, the Bends Juke, and the Hohner Marine Band Crossover and nothing else on the market.
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Boston, MA
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Kingley
501 posts
Nov 11, 2009
11:12 AM
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I use beeswax to seal my Marine Band combs.
I use a double boiler and just keep an eye on it. Once it's fully melted I give it about half a minute and then turn off the heat. Then I dip my combs. I put them on wire which I thread through the screw holes in the combs. I have never burnt myself or had any accidents yet.
Beeswax is a great sealer but you do have to use caution and like anything that's cooking on an open flame keep it attended.
The great thing about beeswax for me is that there is no curing time involved. Once it's out of the wax it only takes a couple of minutes before you can reassemble your harps again.
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nacoran
376 posts
Nov 11, 2009
12:04 PM
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They ought to make real slim plastic or metal mouth pieces for wooden harps, something just a little thinker than a sticker, maybe the thickness of one of those bendable refrigerator magnets. It would cover the wood and keep your lips safe. You could glue it on. If it was the right thickness it could line up with reed plates that stick out like on the Golden Melody or Blues harps.
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Bluzdude46
261 posts
Nov 11, 2009
12:14 PM
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I do the Beeswax mixed with Mineral oil. I use the microwave to get the beeswax soft and mix in enough mineral oil to get it easily brushed onto the comb. By taking the brush and doing every bit of the comb, inside the teeth and all you can see where it is heavy and go back over it to smooth it out. You can also see if a certain area is sucking it up and go back over it. I've had no swelling problems with any of the Harps I've done and they dry enough to be handled within several hours (probably sooner but I don't rush it)
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MHarp
2 posts
Jun 02, 2013
8:46 PM
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Hi KingoBad
I practise 2+ hours a day. My lips are bleeding so I can not concentrate at the music. I found Suzuki Manji is not much better. But SP20 has mouth piece built-in so very smooth but not sound like a MB.
MHarp
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didjcripey
552 posts
Jun 02, 2013
10:15 PM
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Mharp: either you've got very soft lips or you're doing something wrong.
Lips shouldn't bleed after a couple of hours practice.
Try relaxing your mouth a bit.
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Lucky Lester
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the_happy_honker
150 posts
Jun 02, 2013
10:28 PM
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The new Marine Bands have a clear lacquer on the back, sides and tines as well as on the inner surfaces, unlike the old ones, which were painted on the exterior surfaces and raw wood on the interior ones. These harps are in my experience quite well sealed and do not swell.
The exposed reed plates are still a bit rough, but I always sand and finish them before playing.
Retailers are still selling old stock, so make sure of what you are getting before you buy.
Last Edited by the_happy_honker on Jun 02, 2013 10:28 PM
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jbone
1269 posts
Jun 02, 2013
10:39 PM
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If you are hurting your lips that much you are pressing the harp onto your lips too hard. The reason I Went to the Manji was partly because the comb does not swell at all. It's made of a wood and resin composite. Some players don't like that. I do.
My pet peeve with marine Band over many years was exactly that, the combs swelled up and caused trouble. The other pet peeve I had with them was, once i began sealing combs and drilling/tapping/bolting the reed plates to the comb, the reeds didn't stand up to the increased air power that was gooing through them. Those Hohner reeds and plates are not much changed from decades ago. The two choices I had from there were to get deeper into the whole polish/port,seal,radius/blah blah blah on my7 harps and spend a lot more time just getting them where they should have been when I paid good money for them. That is when I left them behind. While I have a MB or 2 around my primary harp comes out of the box ready to perform, the reed plates last a good long time, I like the tuning, and the acoustic volume is superior to most any stock harp I ever played in 42 years now. The Manji. When something even better comes along I'll change again but for now this is the best production harp a working guy like me can afford.
If you want to learn to work on your harps, fine. Or pay someone to make them the way the manufacturer should have in the first place, that's a choice as well. I just want to play the things and if I spend $60 a pop and $32 for reed plate sets, I am willing to do that.
I'm not trying to start an argument but I see the facts the way many do. If Hohner had done it's due diligence over many years they would have had a superior harp all along. They chose to put out a lesser harp as technology improved and they have struggeld to catch up in recent years. To me their efforts have fallen short.
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