1) I have read that historically, performers of the blues played other types music, too. Basically it seems they played what people wanted to hear, so they could entertain people and make money. This music included blues, folk, pop, country, etc.
Were they true blues performers, or not? They played other music. I personally believe that the concept of a "Blues Man" is a recent invention, at least relative to the length of the time period that blues music has been played.
2) I also have heard a wide variety of music called "Blues", with some examples being music played in the 1920's and 1930's that was more complex than 3 chords and included elements of ragtime, West Coast jump blues, post war Chicago blues, boogie blues, gospel blues, country blues, rock blues, psychedelic blues, rhythm and blues. Was the music of "blues shouters" of the 40's and 50's blues, or jazz?
The number of bars in a blues song's progression can vary (sometimes even in one song!), the number of chords vary (one, two, three, etc), some blues can have key changes or modulations, some is instrumental, some includes vocals, etc. All seem to use the blues scale to a certain extent, but many forms often go outside the blues scale.
When people have blues competitions (really?!), the outcome may be based on the very subjective definitions in the minds of the judges.
This is the Modern Blues Harmonica forum. Do we share a common definition of "Blues"? It seems like a number of strong opinions in various threads are linked to this issue.
I expect that someone will use a line like, "If you have to ask what blues is, you will never know."
Bullshit.
I know what I believe is blues when I hear it. I have a wide range of what I accept as fitting under the label, "Blues".
I just am interested in whether there is common ground in this group. Words are meaningless if there is not a substantial degree of shared meaning.
Maybe a relevant question would be, "To what extent is a style or a song Blues?"; rather than, "Is it Blues or not?"
I hope the group is willing to explore this some... It seems very relevant.
I don't think there's a sharp cutoff line between what is blues and what is not. Every person's line is different. A friend and I couldn't be more opposite in what we like and call blues. But I say "vive le difference!" I know people who are purists. They have a pretty tight span for what is blues. Sometimes,it can get annoying. They listen to NOTHING but blues. To me,that's narrow minded. But they also turn you on to a guy you never heard that knocks your socks off.
"When people have blues competitions (really?!), the outcome may be based on the very subjective definitions in the minds of the judges." In the IBC competition, "blues content" is the most heavily weighted judging criteria. Or it was a few years ago. I'm not up to date on whether it has changed. It's subjective as hell. I'm in a blues society that has local IBC and its a bear to find judges who can have some objectivity. Plus you want that broad spectrum of tastes.Oy!
Last Edited by on Jun 08, 2012 10:52 AM
Many of the Blues players that I consider not to be Blues are likely simply specialists in a subfield of Blues that I am not familiar with. Like the many specialists in science, sometimes it is not simply Biology or Entomology.
Sometimes you want to play the Parasitology Blues.
I guess I'd push the definition at least until it's clearly something else. 'Oops I did it again', at least as performed by Britney Spears, is not blues. It's pop. There are songs that might not even have the blue third that lyrically belong in the blues genre. Like you said, it's hard to narrow down.
My band (when we are actually practicing :( ) plays some songs that are straight 12 bar. We've got some that are call and response. We've got some that use blue thirds and some that don't. We've got lyrics that fit blues, country, comedy...
More importantly, when I hang out here I find new things I want to explore, so maybe a good working definition is that if you say 'modern blues harmonica' you get a large enough group so there is overlap with stuff that you are going to want to learn from.
at this point on the "blues continuum" i'd say it's hard to split hairs very finely. i could ask some questions like, if it was not performed by a black guy at the feed lot near a plantation is it blues?, but i think i have an answer i am comfortable with. everything i do is not blues. everything i like is not blues. everything we call blues today is definitely not blues. was anything hank senior or johnny cash did blues? because they were definitely blues personalities. was jimmy reed really blues or as i have heard him classified, crossover country?
so i'd rather not split it too finely. do you like what you do? do you seek to do more cool stuff ala west coast, african rhythms, hill country, etc etc etc? because i think we are looking at a big stew of different styles all classed as a genre. ---------- http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
So far the responses are pretty much in line with my own opinions, allowing a broad range of music to qualify as blues music. From comments in other discussions I am certain that not everyone shares this opinion, and that some have a stricter view as to what qualifies as blues.
In my area there are some musicians with very defined views as to what they see as being blues, seeing jump blues as being more jazz or swing, and not really blues.
As Nacoran noted, "'Oops I did it again', at least as performed by Britney Spears, is not blues. It's pop." I agree.
With other music I think that it is sometimes unclear where the line lies. Does Delbert McClinton play blues? Is all of his music blues? Wes Montgomery? Hank Williams I?
Anyone with more restricted views of what is blues care to chime in? ----------
yeah i was looking for some lightnin that was straight up ragtime but couldnt find it. the ray charles tune i would say is blues the way lightnin does it and its A GO-GO the way ray does it. the take me back one in other versions ive heard is straight up country. when i was into lightin others were into metal and cocaine, they would say for a name like lightnin why does he play so slow? but lightnin is the key to understanding how robert johnson may have played country or jazz because all we really have outside blues by robert johnson is hot tamales a straight up rag. but if you listen to lightnins whad i say? hes making a story that never happened come true and is explaining what sounds in rays song actually came from the florida blues ray grew up on as a child. lightnin was not a cuttin heads texas blues guy. he was a travler and an encyclopedia of all styles of blues. and he could pull shit out of a hat like make up an anti vietnam war song just because there were alot of hippies in the audience. you wuouldnt have hendrix without lightnin. his Negro spiritual numbers are amazing. (yeah the rule i heard is capitalize the N but the word negro no longer exists) ive only picked up a few tricks from lightnin like the quick walkdown and the quick "good evening freinds' barber shop ending followed by a vocal SHO NUFF! it would have been really cool to see lightnin do some covers of beatles or even frank sinatra songs, and he so could have done it in his own unique way and it would have been blues. he was a country guy a travler and a peoples musician if you dont like lighnin the first time you hear him you have a hole for a soul. i have no plan to ever set foot in texas but if i did it would be just to houston to visit lightnin light a winston stick it in the ground for him pour him some 80 proof whiskey on the ground. and just tell him how much he helped me through hard times play him a song then leave texas asap. yup that what umma do.
but the changes are straight up blues and hopkins actually did more rag turnarounds than tommy but tommy yodeled not a "yodel lay hee hoo" but you can hear it its just not singing the girls part in falsetto like robert johnson did. this thing he did was straight swiss yodel influence. another historical fact is 60% of cowboys on the chism trail were african americans something that is never shown in films. so there were probably more swiss and african hoot-n-nannys than you can imagine that were never recorded.
Blues can be played with just about any other style of music if you know the blues language. blues is a soulful feel or language thats mixed with musical forms,12,8,16 bar etc.but alot of it is modal one scale too.so with blues you can go to church or hit the chicken shack with a crawlin` king snake.blues is expression not book bound...
I think we all make our own boundries. Quit often not intentionally either. As far as Blues music I've stopped thinking of music in terms of Blues or not Blues but rather music I like or not. I don't like all Blues. Nor do I dislike all music that isn't Blues. I don't like Rap music, but I think it would be fun to play with rapper for a couple of those things they do? I don't like swing music, but I like it when Blues has a swing to it? All I know is that I don't know!
I know a lot of people have certain ideas of what the music is and what it isn't. That's just life! It's also human nature to argue about everything under the sun!
