I was at an open mic last night and a guitarist asked me to play some blues with him. He said he was in G but my C harp didn't sound right. when I queried it he said "Oh yeah, we had a gig the other day and I tuned it down a semitone. I'm in Gb" So I used my cheap B harp I only got recently. the next tune needed my other recent purchase [Ab] those two harps were the final ones I bought to complete the major set. It is worth taking a full set to an open mic or Jam, you never know what you might need :^) ---------- "Come on Brackett let's get changed"
Agreed. Ideally I'd like to have a full set of majors and minors (natural and harmonic!), including low and high keys, but at some point you have to decide on a practical number of harps, and a full set of majors is a pretty good starting/stopping point. It's what I carry, plus my LLF and my Fm Natural (I have two 7 harp cases so I have space for the 12 keys and two other harps.) Sometimes I carry a tremolo and a chromatic, but I really can't play the chromatic very well, so it's not much help.
You know at some jams you almost get the feeling they will do that on purpose or call tunes in bizarre keys like E-flat minor 'cause "that's how it sounds on the original 78 that old blind watermelon peg-leg fuller boy cut in '49"...just to mess up the harmonica player.
It's soooo satisfying to reach into your bag and pull out the D-flat.
It amazes me just how many harp players I meet who don't have all 12 keys. Sometimes the "odd" keys are the ones that create a certain mood and have so much emotion.
I couldn't agree more with lumpy's statement:
"It is worth taking a full set to an open mic or Jam, you never know what you might need :^)"
Absolutely! Once you start going to jams, sitting in, or doing studio work, you have to have all major keys. For some situations I take a variety of chromatic keys, too! ----------
the exact reason to spend @$30 for the johnson harp set, or some other cheapies. you can use these to fill out your gig bag. you have some emergency backups for often used keys. and you get a serviceable case as a bonus.
I have a full set of special 20s, since i play in a dylanesque way and also tune my guitar down a half step. Ive blown out countless key of B special 20s and a few a flats as well. The only reason i use the "standard" keys is for when im practicing along with the radio. Getting a low f# big river real soon as a relative g harp. I use the high f# too damn much
I bought a cheap B harp which came in useful when my band decided to do Give Me One Reason. I bought a better one, and like playing it when solo busking. Still don't own an Eb or Db or F#. I will take up eharp's suggestion though.
Lately I have been liking the Crossovers and Deluxes. I watch Amazon for deals on Marine Band Deluxe and Crossover harps, so I can buy at better prices. Usually it is the less used keys that have good deals.
Here are some deals on MB Deluxes at Amazon:
Marine Band Deluxe B = $37.95 http://www.amazon.com/Hohner-Marine-Band-Deluxe-Harmonica/dp/B002B55RMS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1339129449&sr=8-1
Marine Band Deluxe Low F# = $45.99 http://www.amazon.com/Hohner-Marine-Band-Deluxe-Harmonica/dp/B002B55RQE/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_3?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1339129512&sr=1-3-fkmr0
Marine Band Deluxe Ab = $28.47 http://www.amazon.com/Hohner-Marine-Band-Deluxe-Harmonica/dp/B002B55RPU/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1339129608&sr=1-1
i have an Eb Ab and F# from 1981 they are the most useless peices of crap i have laying around, and still play perfectly. i also have a capo i would have handed that to the Gb tuned guitarist to place on his first fret and used a C harp pfffftttt. instead of dealing with asshole guitarists who tune crazy and play in jazz keys to keep harp players off the stage, but an electric shiny chrome dobro. guitarist cant reasist its cool shininess and will get a hardon to play it this will get you up quite a few time at a jam and the only harp you need is a C.
"instead of dealing with asshole guitarists who tune crazy"
With that attitude it might be best to keep your asshole out of bars.
Tunig a guitar down 1/2 step is not crazy or used to throw off harp players. It is used so often, especially by Texas blues players or crappy guitarists like Jimi Hendrix, Johnny Winter and Stivie Ray that the "normal" E tuning is almost the oddball.
I keep a Tele tuned "standard". The Strats and LP's are all Eb, and that doesn't have a damn thing to do with fu..king with harp players.
JMHO
Greg ----------
Just when I got a paddle, they added more water to the creek.
I prefer the regular keys of harp, but have found it very useful to have them all. I couldn't have done one of my studio gigs without having those keys, and many times wouldn't have been able to sit in with live bands. It seems that a fair number of vocalists like songs a half step lower, and the guitarists still like the fingering for the regular sharp keys, so they tune down. This is not just Stevie Ray wannabees, but acoustic blues groups, too.
If you are sitting in or doing studio work, you can't just hand them a capo. If you do, you won't be asked to sit in at future gigs, and the studio won't call.
You don't get to call the shots unless it is your band and you are fronting. If you are playing by yourself, then you can do what you want. ----------
well i wont get on a stage with a vocalist not even a female one. i do my own vocals. as for blues jams its pretty simple i take the shiny chrome galveston resophonic out and everyone goes OOOOOOOOOOOHHH. i tune it on a pool table and nobody who wants to play pool seems to mind. some guitarist starts talking to me oh thats so cool and sniny i always wanted one. i say do you play slide in open G? if he says yeah (yes i said he not a she) then i put it back in the case and say ok we will go up together you will play slide. then i go look in the parking lot where i usually find fred (the best drummer) and lenny (his freind and bass player) smoking weed. i say hey whats up blah blah you guys feel like pulling 3 songs out of a hat? sure. done deal i do 3 songs then get the hell out. guitarists are a dime a dozen its all about control.
I carry a full set of 12 harps. I don't use special tunings or low tunings, but I do play multiple positions, so I think of my "instrument" as my performing set a 12 harps. I also carry a set of spares in the 8 most used keys. I think it's disrespectful to the other musicians for a harp player to show up a jam and not have whatever key is need to play whatever tunes get called.
"i have an Eb Ab and F# from 1981 they are the most useless peices of crap i have laying around,"
You've got to be kidding. I could not get through a gig or a jam without an Eb. Regularly used for Bb (2d position), G natural minor (5th position), C harmonic minor and sometimes C natural minor (4th Position) and Db dorian minor for "So What" which does get called at jams occasionally depending on the sophistication of the jamming musicians. I use Ab regularly for C natural minor (5th position) which is a key that gets called commonly. F# i don't use that often.
"I prefer the regular keys of harp"
Gee, I didn't know there were "regular keys". I always thought the key was whatever key you need to play whatever tune gets called in whatever position you want to play it in. For example, i get the most mileage out of my Db using it for F natural minor (5th position). Is that a regular key or is it an irregular key? I didn't know there was a difference.
I also consider the full set of 12 keys, plus 7 keys if chromatics, and a few other tunings of 10 hole harps as "my instrument".
However, I sometimes will carry just 8 harps, Eb to E by circle of 5ths, and maybe a C chromatic. I consider those 8 keys "the regular keys". Purely subjective, based on my experience, 90% of the time I will not need B, F#, Db, or Ab.
But your point is taken, they are all really "regular keys." ----------
hmm in the 30s marine bands came in G A Bb C D E and F
i only play those keys in 2nd but it turns out i also play 3rd 4th and 6th but i could never pull those out of a hat with a full band maybe 3rd i could. no i have never played a blues in Bb with any band in my Eb special 20s 31 year history. the brown vinyl case has even long rotted off. never use it maybe i should for practice and just blow it out once and for all. oh and i cant sing in A so im not replacing my blown out D harp i refuse to sing in A until i die.
If I go to a jam, I carry every damn key I can--plus a couple of minor tuned ones.
The vocalist gets to call the key in any rational context--certainly not the harp player or the guitar player--I don't care how the guitar guy tunes--if he doesn't have a tuner and a capo and know how to use them, send him home--if the harp player doesn't have the key needed--let him sit it out. . . ----------
A (i wont sing in this key unless its the last song last set it rags my throat out)
A minor (this is the key the guitarist tells you is A so you blow out your D harp the one i never use because i dont sing in A) use your G harp for A minor if the asshole guitarist is nice enough to call it that and not A
Bb (nope never)
B (E is only used for playing the rythim guitar part on hey you get off my cloud otherwise its totally useless this song is also not a blues but hey)
C (rarely maybe on country corndog blues and white light gospel tunes, this key is the opposite of G)
D (yes vestapol tuning elmore james etc)
E (yes alot crossed spanish tuning)
F (yes a good key)
all you absolutely need is G A Bb C D youre the singer you call the shots only blow your 30 second ride dont step on the asshole guitarists prima donna toes (he could throw a baby fit and turn off your amp or even worse smash his guitar like a drama queen and storm out the bar in tears) so yeah 5 harps in my case 4 is all you need oh and dont carry an amp use the house PA this makes everyone nervy like you may blow out their eardrum. lay back use hand effects practice how far back you can blow the harp away from the mic and still be heard this is so much cooler than eating the thing. only eat the mic on your 30 second ride if you eat the vocal mic more than 30 seconds it will feedback and a big trainwreck. you want them to think the train wreck is gonna happen but never let it. if you carry more than 7 harps you should start a harmonica museum.
oh and PS Eb Ab and F# are only for playing with saxophones and keyboards throw those guys right off your stage once youve taken over they are the natural enemies of harp players.
@hvyj--I just carry an Am natural for a couple of numbers I do--(but of course, I'm also the asshole guitarist and the vocalist at the same time)--and an Em for St. James Infirmary--anything else minor I just go to Third position--I'm just not very proficient at it yet.
I almost never storm out of the bar in tears--even if some dick has a shinier guitar than mine. . . ----------
but you turn down other guitarists amps right? and fight with people onstage over the mics right? and you will storm out mad if you forgot your pick or a strap because you cant sit down and play and you have to have all the room on the stage for your effects pedals so the singer has to stand on the dance floor yes?
You never know. I was at the harmonica club tuesday and they called out a song in F Minor, I said "hey, how about the key of Q next." I have a harp ready for F# minor, but F minor I was fumbling around in my head, wound up picking up a D chromatic and playing it with the button pushed in. This occurred to me, but picking up the Eb diatonic, somehow didn't register and I played the chromatic with the button in the whole song. ---------- David Elk River Harmonicas
"instead of dealing with asshole guitarists who tune crazy and play in jazz keys to keep harp players off the stage..."
I think I may have found the original "asshole" guitarist - Jimmie Rodgers. At least 2 of the 13 Blue Yodels were in Eb. But what really kept harp players - and everybody else at bay - was his use of variance in time dynamics as a form of musical expression. It was a an extreme pain in the ass to record with him. In the days when if you hit a wrong chord, they went ahead and cut the record anyway instead of recording on a new piece of wax, whenever Ralph Peer paired Jimmie with session musicians, they had to do take after take with Jimmie as Peer was trying to milk as many hit records out of him before Jimmie died, to release after his death. The songwriting team of Jimmie and his ex-mother-in-law were writing songs like crazy, to get them recorded before Jimmie's impending death - which loomed over his entire meteoric and regretfully short career. Peer wanted a vault of records to release after his death to make $$$, Jimmie was as eager to record them so his widow could have some cash coming in after his death. One of them Jimmie got from a 12-year-old Texas kid who sent him a song in the mail and it was the dirtiest song Jimmie ever sang "Pistol Packing Papa," in which it's obvious what type of gun he is packing, i.e., he tells the ladies "if you don't want to smell my smoke, don't monkey with my gun." He would record one, cough up blood and chunks of lung for a few hours, record another one and so on. Until he finally recorded his very last song and he collapsed and died in the session. You'd like to think it was the 13th Blue Yodel (The Women Make a Fool Out of Me)... I can't remember what song it was, but it was something anti-climatic. I sing the 13th Blue Yodel sometimes and am working on my yodeling skills.
and, no, I didn't check a harp against all 13 songs, I just flipped through my Jimmie Rodgers songbook and looked at key signatures. There are five Blue Yodels in there, two of which are in Eb. That would be a 2 to 5 asshole to non-asshole key ratio.
Blue Yodel No. 5
Blue Yodel No. 9 The trumpet player on this track - his wife is playing the piano - was a unknown session musician at the time You may have heard of him, his name was Louis Armstrong.
This one isn't a blue yodel, but it's also in Eb and there were quite a few more of his in Eb. High-Powered Mama
---------- David
____________________ At the time of his birth, it was widely accepted that no one man could play that much music so well or raise that much hell. He proved them all wrong. R.I.P. H. Cecil Payne Elk River Institute for Advanced Harmonica Studies
"Oh, Eeyore, you are wet!" said Piglet, feeling him. Eeyore shook himself, and asked somebody to explain to Piglet what happened when you had been inside a river for quite a long time.
Last Edited by on Jun 29, 2012 8:14 AM
