One of my coaches used to repeat this expression over and over again - the point being that *practising* is all well and good, but to play like the best you have to do more than *just* practice - you have to practice perfect technique/habits etc.
That was on the court. I learnt how to adapt this idea to the violin: it meant starting with good tone from open bowing, then moving to scales (lots and lots of scales) - because on a violin the first (and rather unique) challenge is that of hitting the right note. Being in tune on a fiddle is distinctly more difficult than on a guitar/harp/piano etc. So you stand there and plough through scales fast and slow and then gradually add complexity. On average I spend nearly 2/3 of practice time on scales.
Now, I've been trying to get going on the harp for some time. Picked up the beginners pack from MBH ~ 9 months ago, but just haven't been able to make it stick & I think, for me, it's because I don't know how to structure a good practice session. Not sure a) what elements I should be paying attention to, and b) how to evaluate my success therein.
It seems to me this kind of knowledge comes with experience, so I was wondering if some of the more experienced players would mind sharing their thoughts on the matter.
Just to clarify - and hopefully avoid OT debate on learning styles - I'm interested in a very specific type of *structured* learning. I know that many musicians (not just harp players) believe the best method is simply to spend hours listening to music and to try to play around, but that's not the type of thing I'm after, here. I have ~30min/day to devote to focused practice (and generally the 'intuitive' approach has never jived for me), so I'd like to find those starting drills that should act as a foundation for building techniques that can later be applied to different ends.
Hope that makes sense! Looking forward to the words of the wise - am dying to make some real progress.
Well Rax, the instrument is only the tool. The method of practice on the harp is the same as the violin or guitar. Scales and lots of them. The rest has to do with emboucher and hitting the bent note where much like the violin, you have to hear it right to get it right. I think you already have your technique. Just transpose your existing routine. Oh, and get onto Doc Gussow's You Tube vid's. X ---------- "Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
"because on a violin the first (and rather unique) challenge is that of hitting the right note. Being in tune on a fiddle is distinctly more difficult than on a guitar/harp/piano etc. So you stand there and plough through scales fast and slow and then gradually add complexity."
Getting notes on pitch is a challenge on harmonica too! In the first octave of a diatonic harmonica, only five notes are fixed; the other seven require bends or overblows. At least on a fiddle you have your eyes to help you get in the ball park. So practicing scales is really important on the harmonica, too.
@ XHarp & timeistight - thanks for the responses. So you'd suggest picking up my C and sitting down with the tuner and just hacking it out one note at a time?
What's the next step after getting through the scale a few times in tune? e.g. on the violin, I start with full bows on a variety of scales (say 5-8 distinct scales), then proceed to double octaves and arpeggios, then to different bowings and speeds and when I finally have that stuff down, I switch positions and start over in 2nd/3rd/4th and so on. What would the analogies of these be on the harp - or rather, what elements would you suggest focusing on in what order? (1st - in tune; 2nd - 'enunciation'; 3rd - breathing phrases ? etc.). I know there aren't fast and hard rules, I'm just looking for the advice of experience, so to speak.
Thanks again for taking the time to post - really appreciate it!
After messing around a few months on my own I just found a teacher. This is what we did (last week) at my first lesson. Bear in mind I'm learning to tongue block so I'm basically starting from zero. This is what I do each day:
-practice getting clear, single notes with good tone (scales will come next) -practice bending, using different harps in different keys -play chord rhythms -listen to the great harp players -jamming
He said when learning the technical stuff, that basically requires developing muscle memory so it's best to do it in small chunks of time (5-10 minutes) spread out over the day.
When I studied guitar and piano, I neglected the jamming part because it felt awkward not being very good at it. But forcing myself to do it now on the harp I'm finding it to be really invaluable, not just as a non-tedious way to practice technique but also as a great way to develop the ear and to just get used to being creative that way. I'm really enjoying it, even though I can barely get the notes out coherently.
Scales are good. I haven't practiced them enough. Suss out Adams lessons on how to practice blues scales.
If I just practiced scales, or did more scales than anything else, I reckon I'd pretty quickly lose interest. For me the harp is about passion and feeling. Practice stuff you love and get excited about playing. By the time I can play something well, I'm usually excited about something else, but at I love to practice and do at every opportunity.
As Rick Estrin says:'Keep it in your mouth'
you can't go wrong, but don't expect immediate results ---------- Lucky Lester
Thanks so much for sharing the progression of your private lessons. I'm a straight beginner as well, so that's a helpful guide for me. I've started with scales and bending, but I'll add some rhythm chords too. Where do you jam? I've tried finding a jam group in my area, but to no avail (which is unfortunate, because I once heard that there was a really great regular jam where $5 got you a pint & free group lesson & into the jam..., but for the life of me I can't find it anywhere).
@didjcripey - Yeah, I know the technical approach ain't for everyone, but if I just learn songs I get frustrated at only knowing those specific songs, and often find that I don't have the technical ability to play many of the songs that interest me. This is probably a result of following the suzuki method for violin: it combines these two approaches pretty effectively - it gives you a set of carefully selected songs that aim to develop one specific technique at a time (& expects that you're doing scales & the like alongside these pieces). For now, I have the patience to do scales and work the technique angle - once I have a bit of a foundation, I'll start adding some improve and repertoire.
Thanks again to all - please keep the suggestions coming, I really appreciate your thoughts!
I think practicing different scales in different positions up and down really develops technique especially since this requires the player to hit various bends AT PITCH and in proper order depending on whether you are ascending or descending the particular scale. If you do this, you develop the facility to select the notes you need in order to play a particular tune. Instead of just screwing around following comfortable breath patterns, you are able to make what you want to hear come out of the harp. Playing in any of the 5 or 6 most used positions becomes no harder than than playing in any other of those positions because you understand the available notes and where to find them (personally, i don't OB).
Blues scale, major scale, dorian scale, mixolydian scale, major and minor pentatonic scales, natural and harmonic minor scales are all available without OBs although not each is available in every position. And some are available only in certain resisters of certain positions. These are what I practice making a focused effort to hit all necessary bends accurately on pitch. It really helps develop control over the instrument. But, if you just practice blues scales it is quite limiting.
The easy thing about scale practice on harmonica is whatever you learn in any key is easily transposed to any other key simply by changing the key of harmonica you are playing.
Arpeggios are also good for this type of practice, too, but personally I haven't done much of that.
I've tabbed and and/or can figure out the available scales in 2d, 3rd, 4th and 5th positions, and to a lesser extent in 1st and 12th positions. Haven't done that with the available arpeggios. That's been on my list of things to do for quite a while.
Last Edited by on Jun 05, 2012 10:01 AM
For the last five years, I've practised most days for about an hour. Funny how now I don't really know what exactly I was practising earlier on. I was watching Adam's YTs and gleaning stuff from them and making real progress though. I do recall that I usually spent quite a bit of time on learning all the "regular" bends, draw and blow, working on each of them in turn until I got them down. This often took quite a while, because sometimes it is difficult to "find" the bend in the first place and once you zero in on it, your technique changes slightly here and there to make it more efficient, until you eventually have some consistency and really groove the technique. Because everyone's mouth shape, size, etc. is different, and you can't see what you are doing, you have to find what works best for you. All this takes time. It took me a good couple of years or more to get all the bends sounding good (lip-blocked). Then, I decided to learn everything again, tongue-blocked. Then, once I developed better breath control, I started working on overblows (starting with hole 6). This also requires that you learn how to gap the reeds.
Hvyj has talked about what scales to work on. I think he is right too. Personally, at first, being a blues guy, I took Adam's YT advice and worked on the blues scale in second position first, then after a couple of years starting adding in first and third positions, and some other positions (not so much for blues) like 4th and 12th. Learning scales and positions really helps unlock your ability to improvize and play "by ear". But I have really stuck mostly to the blues scale (and major and minor pentatonic).
You can check my profile info for some harp tab charts for all the positions. But most blues types stick to less than half of the positions.
All that was certainly enough to keep me busy for an hour or so a day for my first five years. I have also used Adam's tabs to learn some songs. These are useful for learning specific riffs and techniques. Now I find that I am learning more songs on my own, by ear, and not verbatim from other harp solos on record, but by listening to songs I like and giving it my own spin. ----------
Last Edited by on Jun 05, 2012 10:02 AM
Assuming you already have a ton of violin material, I'd start from the simplest trying to play it on a G harp. You probably won't have the technique to get all the notes (or you'll run out of harmonica above the third octave) but you can use what Howard Levy calls the "stepping stone approach": when you encounter a note you can't play, sing it and carry on.
I recommend spending some time playing along with music, both music with harmonica parts and without. You say you are a beginner, but there are all sorts of levels of beginner. I'd spend some time each session working on both pucker and tongue blocking. I'd get the split octaves memorized, and get comfortable with all the bends. Practice trying to learn songs by ear. The more playing something is just like humming along the more you will be able to play. If you are getting good single notes work on double stops and partial double stops, where you get all of one hole, but just part of another hole- it gives you a nice bluesy tone. You may not practice every technique every time, but get yourself familiar with warbles and wahs and shimmers and all the other techniques. Picking out songs by ear isn't really so much about learning a new song as it is learning to recognize intervals. You can learn songs by rote, but that won't help you at a jam much. You'll need to be able to play what you hear in your head. Learn which holes correspond to notes in which chords in different positions. If you can move from the I to the IV to the V in a given position you can play blues in that position. Other chord progressions will come along too.
So if you get anything from this it's systematic. Scales, clear notes, draw and blow bends, 1st 2nd 3rd position, develop licks, string them together, work out song structure, 8, 9 1/2, 12, 16 & 24 bar blues. Same as any other instrument. BUT most of alll, stay loose, don't stress over it and damn it, HAVE FUN! ---------- "Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
Record yourself. It (A) lets you hear what you are doing and (B) is a benchmark against which you can chart your progress in the coming months and years. I was clearing files from my PC yesterday and came across some stuff from a couple of years ago.
holly harps - there's a good few decades of really practical advice in this thread. I'm going to take some time to put it together into some sort of format that works for me. I'm still figuring out the forum, but I've gleaned from above that it is possible to attach things to one's profile, in which case, if the final product is digital (which it will be if it can be!), then I'll post it to my account for other newbs to make use of - I know there will be some definitions to suss out as well (I'm very green: never had any problems getting clear single notes, but ain't got much beyond that. I got a partial bend straight away (to a C# on 4h draw of a C harp), but can't seem to wrestle it down the next half step) - all to say, there's *much* to learn).
Thank you to everyone who has shared. Please feel welcome to continue adding thoughts, I'll read with great interest and try to compile all the wisdom into a single doc w/ related filter for anyone interested.
One thing that has helped me in the past few months is to play into a tuner from time to time. I don't do this very much, but sometimes either when I want to practice a scale or to see if I am hitting notes I think I am hearing. While I understand the need to improve my ear, I found this helpful as immediate feedback as to whether or not I am getting there.
Rax, you can only bend 4 draw down to C#, it will not go down another half step. Here is around the 7th video of my series, around 70 vids so far. This one explains how to know what bends are where:
Last Edited by on Jun 05, 2012 6:15 PM
@Michael Rubin - my bad, I don't frequently work with the notation for notes removed from an actual instrument or staff notation & forgot that Db = C#, and the chart I was using lists bot of these (quite logically). Combined with the fact that Adam's bend on his intro vid sounds very different from mine (lower in tone), but my tuner told me I was hitting the right note - I didn't think twice 'bout assuming there was a second note to be found.
I'm living in cramped quarters right now - so lacking the "work shed" environment for extensive practice, but am v. excited to check out your vids as well. Thank you kindly for pointing me towards them & pointing out my error!
@Rgsccr - I fall on the other extreme: try to use my tuner *all the time*. Certainly when playing violin I have it on for the entire duration of my practice (& frequently the motivation behind memorizing a piece is so that I can play at real-time while watching the tuning). This is a new habit, but the results have been striking.
I don't have enough experience in harp playing/listening to know if exact pitch is as critical (seems to me that, like fiddling (vs. classical), there may be more room for pitch-play on the harp - adds interest and texture, so to speak), but for the time being I've simply transposed the habit/technique - as suggested above.
Im sure I'll get some argument on this, but I don't think it's a good idea to regularly use a tuner to track your intonation. A tuner can be a crutch and a distraction. You need to develop your ears, not your eyes.
This is particularly true if you want to play blues, which features a lot of very subtle pitch shadings of thirds, fifths and sevenths. Your tuner won't give you any help there.
I find a tuner is useful in learning to SEPARATE the bends in holes that have multiple bends. It's helpful in establishing a "target" to develop muscle memory/technique.
That being said, in actual performance you need to rely on your ear. no other way to do it. And, btw, in actual performance, i usually find I wind up taking the pitch of the bends a little deeper than when i practice with a tuner. Why? Because that's what my ears tell me to do.
I suppose one could practice separating bends and bending to pitch using a piano keyboard, which gives you the ear thing.
Last Edited by on Jun 06, 2012 12:25 PM
@timeistight & hvyj - I agree with both points. I use a tuner as a tool and try to structure my practice to avoid having become a crutch: e.g. after I get the feel for the right place in muscles and ear, then I try doing scales slowly, getting each note to tune & then, holding the note, comparing to the tuner to see how my ear compares to technology. I've found this very helpful with violin - as I've found that I don't have a consistent bias on all notes - e.g. I tend to play C#s low and Bs high. Finally, by the time I take it to full-speed, it is too fast for me to use as a crutch, but it does signal to me if there is a patch that deserves a bit more attention. But the ultimate goal is always leaving everything except the instrument behind.
Was practicing bends & find that I don't seem to be able to get the last 1/4 or 1/2 tone in my 4-hold draw bend. I can get a sharp C#, but try as I might I can't get it lower. Now, I was able to bend it right from the get-go, so I was wondering if this is just a muscle thing? Or is it technique (or both)? Just wondering if there were any suggestions on this particular point. [I've re-watched Adam's video on this, and practiced pulling as hard as I can, but no matter what it hits a wall...]. Thoughts?
Harder has nothing to do w/it. It is a matter of RESONANCE, not force. You must adjust your oral resonance chamber to the target pitch. Proper embouchure helps.
What are you trying to accomplish right now? I work at music somewhat intuitively, following my inspiration, but at the same time, attempting to go at it systematically.
I always ask myself this question since I have the tendency of having too many(music/harp) aims operating at once. I seem to slowly advance on several fronts, as several goals are mutually supportive.
Sometimes, though, it seems like I remain at the same skill level for long periods of time before I acquire a little greater facility, or can do something I couldn't do before on the instrument.
For me, some great inspiration has come from: 1)wanting to be good enough to play with others in front of an audience. 2)wishing to constantly improve my ability to do this 3)wanting to play a variety of music styles( I gig regularly with a few quite different groups). 4)freedom of expression that comes from technical ability. 5)wanting to be able to explain/ pass on what I know to someone else.
Anyway, in asking myself the question,"What do I want to accomplish right now" I can usually inject some kind of structure into my practice 'life'.
There are also available several online schools of harp instruction. Adam Gussow, David Barrett, Howard Levy, Michael Rubin, Ron Shellist, and others. These lessons, covering an humungous range of harmonica/music skills could help provide the basis for some excellent learning structure.
@timeistight & hvyj - alright, the only reason I tried pulling harder was because the video encouraged doing so, but to get the bend that I did required very little effort. I'm wondering now if the last half-tone is an issue with the harp's tuning: the harp seems to be notably sharp across the board, so maybe that's all there is to it.
When you say work on "breathing and articulation" for now - what exactly do you mean / how to do this? I believe I have a clear consistent tone (single notes) and can do scales starting on 4 (i.e. not requiring bends), so just curious.
