SuperBee
284 posts
May 28, 2012
6:12 AM
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I recently acquired a couple low tuned harps. Disconcerted to find I can't bend the 1 draw on the low F beyond about 45 cents. With the Low Eb I can't bend 1 draw at all and can't get beyond the half step on 2 draw. I know it can be done, but I need help. I don't seem to be making any progress at all. Any tips gratefully accepted. Thanks, Dave
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Lazerface
6 posts
May 28, 2012
6:19 AM
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Practice?
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BronzeWailer
591 posts
May 28, 2012
6:29 AM
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Recently got into the low tuned ones myself. I think the usual bending tips apply. Keep jaw low, try to focus bending effort back towards the throat rather than near the front of the mouth. I was mucking around a lot on the low C. It seems a bit like weightlifting. When you come up to the low F it seems a lot easier. I(My only two low harps. Got a couple more on order from Rockin' Ron's). Dunno if this helps...
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SuperBee
285 posts
May 28, 2012
6:33 AM
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Yeah maybe. Just thought I may be missing something. You think I keep doing the same thing it'll just happen eventually? I been trying to get the 1 draw on my A harp down 50 cents past the Bb for about 8 weeks now and the most I ever manage is about 40. And today I can't even get that. Just thinking maybe I am missing something.
Edit:things got out of sequence, this was reply to Lf
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Last Edited by on May 28, 2012 7:09 AM
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Rubes
530 posts
May 28, 2012
6:42 AM
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Are you standing up?
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One of Rubes's bands, DadsinSpace-MySpace
Old Man Rubes at Reverbnation
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SuperBee
288 posts
May 28, 2012
6:56 AM
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@ bw, thanks yeah that sounds like all the stuff I am doing, except I got the low F first and found to my surprise I couldn't get that 1 draw. Figured I'll get there eventually so got the Low Eb. Maybe I'll mess around with that one a bit.
@Rubes. Not right now. Are you having a laugh, or do you mean it's easier to draw more air standing up?
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Konstantin
39 posts
May 28, 2012
7:02 AM
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Sounds crazy but practice it slugging down before bending the note or practice it lying horizontally on the ground. Those are tips by Ben Bouman. And it really works and worked for me.
Best
Konstantin
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SuperBee
290 posts
May 28, 2012
7:06 AM
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Thanks Konstantin, but what do you mean 'slugging down'?
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Rubes
532 posts
May 28, 2012
7:19 AM
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Yeh I mean't the diaphragm thing, some project better vertically....but if K means (c/- B Bouman) getting sloshed or horizontal....sounds like a challenge!!!! ;~}
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One of Rubes's bands, DadsinSpace-MySpace
Old Man Rubes at Reverbnation
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Konstantin
40 posts
May 28, 2012
8:58 AM
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Yes I meant swallowing a bit spit before bending. That has the same effect as lying horizontally on the ground just for a shorter time.
Hope that helps.
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FreeWilly
252 posts
May 28, 2012
9:10 AM
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No experience with low harps. But this sounds exactly like the problems I had before I found out about gapping etc. Ungapped, some harps won't bend for shit. I can imagine it's only worse on low harps.
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harmonicanick
1623 posts
May 28, 2012
10:46 AM
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@sperbee
I have a Special 20 low F which I use a lot live; bending 1 draw a full step is not a problem, I suggest check the gapping etc
Marvellous key to use, as is the low Eb, again check the usual. Great key for chugging un-accompanied.
I have, also, a super low F Seydel, which is very soft sounding and the 1 blow sounds like a ship foghorn
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isaacullah
1982 posts
May 28, 2012
11:43 AM
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I had trouble bending low notes on low E and F when I first got them. Then I got a Low D (and now also a Low C), and after trying to bend THOSE, I can now bend on the Low E and F with no problem! ;)
Seriously, I think it's just a technique/practice/time issue. I find that I have to open my throat and drop my jaw REALLY low to bend low harps on holes 1 and 2. For a while I really had to concentrate and do this consciously every time. I also got out my chromatic tuner and made sure I was getting them down to the right pitch. After doing that a while, it got easier, and now I can bend those notes when I need to without thinking about it. It's really akin to learning how to bend all over again! :)
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== I S A A C ==
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SuperBee
294 posts
May 28, 2012
7:22 PM
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Cool, thanks I'll try those things. I wondered about the gaps too, but it's not like the sort of problem I usually have with a poorly gapped reed. New territory for me though so I'll try anything. I really didn't expect to have any problem with the low F so it's rattled me some. Anyway, thank you all very much for your helpful suggestions.
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barbequebob
1912 posts
May 29, 2012
8:35 AM
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On bending low pitch harps, Isaccullah has it exactly right where you have to think along the lines of an opera singer, or as a vocalist in a general rule and have a much more open throat and many players, especially those who started out LP and are attempting to make the transition to TB often have this same difficulty because their throat and the inside shape of their mouths are often too closed up to make it happen, plus they're trying to force everything to happen, which is NOT what you want to be doing, and as ana analogy, many vocalists at times have troubles with getting certain vowels to sound well in singing because by the way they've learned to speak often makes it problematic for certain vowels in the vocals to come out with a full clear tone and and then they wind up choking on the sound.
It means taking the time to shed doing VERY SLIGHT alterations to not only your embouchre, but also the inside shape of ytour mouth, PLUS playing 100% FULLY relaxed, something many players never do and when you're forcing things, you automatically play uptight, and you don't allow for any necessary adjustments to happen. Part of the way to get to the more open throat is to learn a controlled yawn where you wind up fully open and fully relaxed and when fully relaxeed, everything is more wide open, but DO NOT FORCE IT EVER or nothing is going to work and that's the average player's downfall.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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HarpNinja
2483 posts
May 29, 2012
9:48 AM
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It can be WAY hard, even with good technique, to bend on really really low harps. I can usually bend a 2 draw on a Low D without a huge amount of issue, but lower than that is hard!
3 Draw usually isn't too bad even down to LG for me, but it takes a lot of practice.
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
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Pistolcat
187 posts
May 29, 2012
12:54 PM
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I just got a LD thunderbird in the mail. I haven't started bending yet because I want to go easy on the reeds but I really like the sound of it! And it's also that nasty blistered tongue problem of mine...
@superBee - I have listened to your chickentrain in that other thread. I like your chugging, you have nice rythm.
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
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SuperBee
299 posts
May 29, 2012
1:51 PM
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Thank you Pistolcat for your kind words. My trains are not very ambitious but people seem to like that chicken train song, or really hate it, depending on whether they had to endure the original too much back in the day.
Thanks Isaac, Mike and Bob, i will keep working on it
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robbert
79 posts
May 29, 2012
4:43 PM
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Gapping with light embossing seems to work on all harps.
The harp becomes more responsive with less air pressure and all the obs/ods become accessible, if not perfect.
Higher end harps like Crossover/Session Steel/Manji require less work, but gapping even works with LOs I have found. Low keyed and high keyed harps seem to benefit.
Gapping requires less time than you might think.
I regapped thirty harps in maybe five hours, and they all played better as a result.
I would not have had a clue of how to go about this without the benefit of this forum and the many vids out there on the web.
I've been playing for a dozen years now steadily and know what I want from the harp. This is important.
I have also, in the past, messed up harps, trying to work on them. This is just a fact of learning. I am now able to mostly recover those harps I screwed up.
If you want a truly great instrument, I think you need to go to a professional customizer, but learning to do basics on ones stock harps, is a great benefit.
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robbert
80 posts
May 29, 2012
4:47 PM
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Well, I posted this to the wrong thread. I meant to post to the 'tweaking harps' thread.
Sorry.
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mlefree
66 posts
May 30, 2012
11:40 AM
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Two things:
1) Getting those low bends is a matter of pure physics. Your oral cavity, throat and airways need to be large enough to permit the chopped air vibrations to resonate at the lower frequencies. Someone with smaller stature may simply not be able to create a large enough volume to do that. A larger person will be able to bend lower notes with greater ease. Google "Helmholtz Resonator" for the technical scoop.
2) Have you ever listened to Howard Levy talk? He has a very low voice. So do I, for a woman. So much so that I am self-conscious about it. I attribute my deep voice in part at least to my years playing harp. In striving towards better tone by playing with "expanded" airways and doggedly working at developing my vibrato, I have consciously exercised my throat and diaphragm muscles far more than the average gal. I think that is one thing that has contribute to my low voice, though there may be others... ;^)
Michelle
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SuperBee
302 posts
May 30, 2012
3:31 PM
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BBQ bob is on the ball with this. I can now achieve the F# on Low-F, and getting some movement on the low Eb, by finding new movement in my oral cavity.
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Last Edited by on May 30, 2012 4:26 PM
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