FreeWilly
231 posts
May 23, 2012
12:05 PM
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Can anyone tell me why there is a hole on the tooth between hole 5 and 6 on golden melody combs? It seems to be meant as a place to fit another reedplate-screw, but as the reedplates don't have the corresponding holes, this bewilders me somewhat. Then again, there are a lot of seemingly random holes on these combs. It it weren't for the holes I saw in the bluemoon-combs online, I perhaps would not have wondered..
I'm starting to lean towards the GM's btw. So much more airtight and easier to cup than Marine Band deluxes.. And cheaper too. And as I've been practicing the bends a lot, it's nice to actually hit bends on a pitch that makes sense, rather than being a half a step down from 'some' note. That makes up for the chords in my most recent likings. Ehm. Got sidetracked there quite a bit.
Hope somebody knows!
Last Edited by on May 23, 2012 1:24 PM
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
1024 posts
May 23, 2012
4:39 PM
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That's the tone hole, lol.
Screws are expensive. I mean they are way more expensive than you would think. So, there's this trade off a company weighs, does this screw add benefit that equals the cost of it. So, at one point, I would say there was a screw there, or the pattern may date from the days when they were held together with drift pins. I don't know, but the comb was designed for a different configuration than the reedplate was, but it still works, so the plates are on that comb. It works. But I will say, the screw configurations change quite a bit on the same harp. over a four year people, Seydel went through like 4 or 5 different screw patterns on the Solist model alone and I'm not talking about just rearranging combs, I'm talking about drilling out the reedplates in different patterns.
There's all kinds of stuff that happens in a factory that translates into something that makes you say "huh?" The B-radicals had whatever version of reeds it had (they were updated a couple of times) on the front coverplate. There are several "10.3" version harps out that that say "9.0" because yours truly mistakenly ordered them that way from the engraver.
But these things do change. Screw patterns and numbers change. When I was a kid, Golden Melodies were held together with drift pins. So were Special 20s, although I didn't have many of those. As a kid, I favored the blues harp, it was the old handmade one back then. I used to take all my blues harps to church and school and show them off. I'd open the box and proudly show off each and every key I had, I did this to adults in church, which I'm sure had to irritate the hell of out them. It's strange that as a little kid I was attracted to wood comb harps. I had no strong concept of tone, nor had my eccentricity matured by that time.
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David
Elk River Harmonicas
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"It's difficult to think anything but pleasant thoughts while eating a homegrown tomato." - Lewis Grizzard
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Last Edited by on May 23, 2012 4:44 PM
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FreeWilly
232 posts
May 24, 2012
12:12 AM
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Thanks for that answer.
Still I wonder whether there's actually people playing GM's with that screw today. Otherwise I don't understand why comb-retailers still make that hole. Seems like it would hurt its consistency!
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
1028 posts
May 24, 2012
10:23 AM
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Same reason anything is anything. Money. The comb and reedplate also were not necessarily made at the same time.
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David
Elk River Harmonicas
Elk River Harmonicas on Facebook
"It's difficult to think anything but pleasant thoughts while eating a homegrown tomato." - Lewis Grizzard
"Also, drinking homemade beer." - David Payne
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FreeWilly
235 posts
May 24, 2012
10:36 AM
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The only one selling GM combs without that hole seems to be earl the pearl. But his combs are a whopping 70 $.
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hvyj
2434 posts
May 24, 2012
11:18 AM
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Sjoeberg combs and Reynolds combs don't have that screw hole in the middle tine.
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FreeWilly
236 posts
May 24, 2012
11:33 AM
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Holy moly your right!
Good one.
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MP
2285 posts
May 24, 2012
1:12 PM
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"
Still I wonder whether there's actually people playing GM's with that screw today. "
Willy, well, perhaps someone still has GMs w/ that screw configuration.
i have two Hetrick GM combs w/ those holes. i made these harps out of old parts and
i noticed the reed plates were slightly different.
one set had a circular punch indentation for the forward screw. i drilled it out and tapped for a screw. the other set of plates didn't have the indentation so i ignored it.
i don't notice any difference in air tightness.
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MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.
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Todd Parrott
932 posts
May 24, 2012
5:16 PM
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If the comb is flat, the extra hole is unnecessary. The stock combs still have the extra hole in the comb, but not the reed plate (though some old ones used to), probably because it would be expensive to reprogram their machinery for such an unnecessary change.
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
1029 posts
May 24, 2012
7:21 PM
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Todd is dead on.
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David
Elk River Harmonicas
Elk River Harmonicas on Facebook
"It's difficult to think anything but pleasant thoughts while eating a homegrown tomato." - Lewis Grizzard
"Also, drinking homemade beer." - David Payne
Last Edited by on May 24, 2012 7:24 PM
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oldwailer
1901 posts
May 24, 2012
7:51 PM
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I noticed that the Blue Moon combs have an extra hole there for Marine Bands--just in case you want to use it--they also are fattened up a little around the hole to reinforce the material--very nice design. . .
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Oldwailer's Web Site
Always be yourself--unless you suck. . .
-Joss Whedon
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
1030 posts
May 24, 2012
8:10 PM
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You'll also notice that the 1847 has extra holes in the reedplates. You can't even use screws there, because the coverplates sit on top of it and there is no room.
Why is it there? Because the screws are there on the Favorite. What does the favorite have to do with anything, it's a brass reed harp? Because the reedplates for the 1847 and Favorite are the same design.
That's how these things happen. So, if at some point, the Favorite would get nixed, somebody might be asking this same question about why the 1847 has those extra holes you can't put a screw in.
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David
Elk River Harmonicas
Elk River Harmonicas on Facebook
"It's difficult to think anything but pleasant thoughts while eating a homegrown tomato." - Lewis Grizzard
"Also, drinking homemade beer." - David Payne
Last Edited by on May 25, 2012 11:06 AM
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FreeWilly
238 posts
May 25, 2012
1:36 AM
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Thanks for all the info.
@Oldwailer: might it be that he sells these combs for Sp20 also? And that that's the reason for that hole? Just guessing here..
Last Edited by on May 25, 2012 1:37 AM
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hvyj
2436 posts
May 25, 2012
10:51 AM
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Blue Moon has that hole in its aluminum GM combs, too (which, btw, are VERY nice combs--very flat and excellent compression).
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florida-trader
128 posts
May 25, 2012
11:42 AM
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Just to clarify, the MB and MBD combs I make have a little "extra beef" on the #3 and #7 tines. If you've ever tried to drill holes in a tine it is difficult to do without breaking it. The Special 20 comb has a hole through the center tine. The hole in the center tine of the GM comb is the current version. I have purchased about 20 brand new GM's recently and they all have that design, although I must confess that I have never seen a harp with a screw through the center tine or even a screw hole in the reed plates. Do you think I should get rid of it?
FWIW, I've been using my own combs to rebuild a lot of Marine Bands - including some nice pre-wars - and have been using screws in the #3 and #7 holes more and more. So I have decided to just have them drilled in the combs from this point forward. It is much better to have the CNC do it during the manufacturing process than to do it after the comb is made. Another modification I am making is I am enlarging - or perhaps more accurately, elongating - the cover plate hole so the same comb can be used on a MB 1896 or a MBD. The cover plate holes will be pill or capsule shaped. Again, I have been using some of my own Corian and Aluminum combs, which were designed for MBD's, on MB 1896's and have had to do some additional drilling to make it work. I've just decided to make life easier for myself and everyone else.
I just ordered 500 combs from my CNC milling shop. I was hoping to have them ready before HCH but they are a little behind. I should have them soon. I will have them in 3 kinds of wood, 6 colors of Corian, Aluminum and Brass (the brass will be available in GM and MB only). I'll be posting pictures of them as soon as they are ready.
freewilly, oldwailer and hvyj - thanks for the props.
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Last Edited by on May 25, 2012 11:42 AM
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
1037 posts
May 25, 2012
11:58 AM
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You building any Seydel combs Florida trader?
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David
Elk River Harmonicas
Elk River Harmonicas on Facebook
"It's difficult to think anything but pleasant thoughts while eating a homegrown tomato." - Lewis Grizzard
"Also, drinking homemade beer." - David Payne
Last Edited by on May 25, 2012 11:59 AM
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florida-trader
129 posts
May 25, 2012
12:40 PM
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Dave, I think it is time for us to get on a first name basis. You can call me Tom.
A couple of people were asking me about Seydel combs at HCH. I haven't built them up until now because I've never heard anyone complain about them. I've just been kinda goin' with the flow and when I see a need (i.e. people complaining about something) I try to fill it. I figure if people are already a) aware of the problem, and b) looking for a solution, I won't have to beat anybody's door down to move the product. That said, if the demand is there I can make Seydel combs as easily as anthything else. What's your easier? Wood, acrylic, Corian, aluminum or brass? I presume your are looking for 1847's?
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Todd Parrott
935 posts
May 25, 2012
5:16 PM
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Tom, yes, I would get rid of the extra hole on your GM combs. My purple one I got from you doesn't have it and it's fine. As long as the comb is flat, it's unnecessary. And... if the comb isn't flat, the extra hole wouldn't solve the problem anyway.
I'm loving the purple acrylic! Cool color!
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
1044 posts
May 25, 2012
5:35 PM
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OK Tom. What's your last name? I'm a wood man. I was mostly curious. When I was doing new custom combs, I was getting them from Randy Sandoval, we've got a pretty long history there. If you ever decide to do them, one comb will fit every single 10-hole diatonic except the Session and Session Steel. I wanted to pass that along if you were considering it.
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David
Elk River Harmonicas
Elk River Harmonicas on Facebook
"It's difficult to think anything but pleasant thoughts while eating a homegrown tomato." - Lewis Grizzard
"Also, drinking homemade beer." - David Payne
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harpwrench
593 posts
May 25, 2012
5:49 PM
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GMs were screwed in the mid 90's with a different pattern that used that hole, then they went back to the pins (same pattern as now used with screws) for a while, then the current screw pattern. Stock combs have holes for both patterns. The extra screw in front is unnecessary because the covers provide clamping force. Radically modifying GM covers can degrade airtightness, because removing the center support in front reduces the leverage at the mouthpiece.
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Spiers Harmonicas
Last Edited by on May 25, 2012 8:33 PM
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FreeWilly
243 posts
May 26, 2012
12:58 AM
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Now this is the kind of thread I like this forum for so much.
Thanks for that Harpwrench. That's beyond the educated guesses that have been (accurately) done.
Question: Todd and Harpwrench, you know one another right? So Harpwrench, does this mean that you like the support-beam better than the coverplateshaping Todd does? It seems to make sense. Probably more than with a sp20 or something, because the coverplate is pinned down on a smaller surface on both sides, making it more likely to tilt.
That being said: I tried to emulate what Todd does to his coverplates, and I like it tone-wise. Even with my limited skill, the curve makes the plates very stirdy indeed. Great invention, I thought...
@Florida-trader: Considering what Harpwrench has shared, I'd get rid of them!
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florida-trader
130 posts
May 26, 2012
6:00 AM
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Dave, my last name is Halchak. That is good info about the Seydel combs. Thanks.
Joe. Very interesting point about the center rear support. Had never thought of that and it makes perfect sense. Would you, as Willy has advised, also recommend I get rid of the hole inthe center tine? Now's the time to do it as I still have time to change the order I just placed.
Willy - thanks for the input.
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Todd Parrott
936 posts
May 26, 2012
9:54 AM
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FreeWilly,
When you open the GM covers you take a risk of distorting or warping the shape of the plate, which can cause air leakage at the front of the mouthpiece, so I take it slow, and if I do bend it out of shape too much I use a pair of sheet metal pliers to bend the front of the mouthpiece back straight.
I used to use support beams, but these are often prone to rattling if they're not just right.
I think Randy Sandoval uses MS cover plate screws to place a center support screw in his GM's, and he has another pattern that uses 3 beams.
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GMaj7
32 posts
May 27, 2012
6:23 AM
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Tom & I discussed the front hole at length early on and I suggested he put it there even though I don't always use it. At the time, I was working on a lot of used GM reed plates and they were usually a bit bent. I don't use the front hole much now.
I am not a huge fan of the opened/modified covers on GM, but when a customer insists, I use 0-80 threaded stand-offs over stainless 0-80 screws on each side of the center support. It always seems to work out fine and now I know why as they keep some tension on the mouthpiece/groove. Makes sense. They also keep the covers from crushing... (I still haven't figured out how players mangle them so bad)
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
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