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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Session Steel Screw Issues
Session Steel Screw Issues
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HarpNinja
2422 posts
May 14, 2012
8:53 AM
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I have a SS in D. I took it apart and now it will not go back together. There are two problems.
1. Unless I mixed up the reedplate screws, they appear to have stripped on the draw side. They won't tighten or hold the plates to the comb. I tried seeing if Hohner XO screws would fit, but they are too small. I tried older SP20 screws and they are too big.
I keep all the loose parts in the box the harp is in and can't see how I would have mixed them up, etc. I am worried I'll have to tap them for 2-56 screws, which will be a PIA and probably too big for the stock comb.
2. The cover plates are a b!@#$ to get tightened too. I thought I mixed those up with the other Seydel cover plate screws, but again, I can't get the threads to catch well. Sometimes, when using an aftermarket GM comb, it can take some patience to get the cover screws to line up a catch together. It seems impossible with the SS set, though.
I used the same Pozi driver I use with all M1.6 screws and am well beyond overtightning things, etc. Like I said, I thought I mixed up the screws, but I don't see how that would be possible.
At any rate, it is my harp and I just took it apart to clean it. I can live without it, but would like to get it back together!
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
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barbequebob
1904 posts
May 14, 2012
10:16 AM
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Seydel reedplate screws are Pozidriv #0 and using a Pozidriv #1, which is what Hohmer MS harps uses is going to be too large for the slot that the screwdriver goes into. Like the coverplate screws on the MS series, the coverplate screws on Seydels tend to be very delicate, which a reason why I hate the Pozidrive screws and even with the correct screwdriver, you have to be INCREDIBLY gentle with them because the slot shreads much more easily than the threads of the screws will.
Rockin Ron's now carrying replacement screws for Seydels and the ones that go for the 1847's may be different than the rest of the line if I'm not mistaken so check that ot.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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HarpNinja
2426 posts
May 14, 2012
11:10 AM
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Thanks, Bob. I've never stripped a thread before, but I am thinking that is what happened? It totally sucks, and I doubt I'll do much to fix it, but I'll probably use the harp for spare parts.
It is in really good shape, but I accidently left it out and it got put in with my kids' music toys. I figured I should clean it to play it safe. Bad idea, lol!
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
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GMaj7
29 posts
May 14, 2012
12:11 PM
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I am not sure exactly what you did there or how it happened, but there are several options.. all of which I can help you out with this.. One is just go back w/0-80 screws/nuts on the reed plates. If not and you think you still have thread on the reed plates, I can give you some 1.6mm self-tappers. On the cover plates, Seydel is in the process of switching to Phillip Head into Pozi Barrel type stainless screws similar to Suzuki. I have a huge selection of those, too. They are all pricey, but I could mail you few for a beer at SPAH. Email me...
On this note, the Seydel replacement reed plates come with pre-drilled/untapped holes. The screws are self-tappers and you have to turn them a few times and back out just like you would if you were cutting threads with a tap.
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
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HarpNinja
2430 posts
May 14, 2012
12:20 PM
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Is the issue that I may have accidently switched out 1.6mm self-tappers with regular 1.6mm (I thought Seydels were 1.6mm)?
I wouldn't hesitate to say that the screws in there now make it seem like the hole threads are stripped. You know, you can't push them down, but if you use a screwdriver, it never really gets snug? I think two holes tightened up and the rest never really catch beyond not letting the plates fall off.
It seems like the Crossover/MBD 1.6mm screws are smaller than SP20 screws and the Seydel are between the two?
I have several 1847's and have taken them apart a few times with no issue. I haven't monkied much with SS. In fact, I've done quite a few 1847 overbend set-ups for pro players and they turn out fantastic. I've take those screws in and out numerous times with no issues.
I've only been asked to repair 3-4 SS, and they all had no issues. I am just glad it is one of my spare harps and not a customer's harp that isn't tightening up!
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
984 posts
May 14, 2012
5:09 PM
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I've had apart about a jillion of everything Seydel has made, either by repairs, customs or optimizing, adjustments, tunigns, etc. I've probably had thousands of them apart. So any time you guys run into this stuff, feel free to ask. Whatever it is, if it's Seydel, I've probably already run into it. I do sell screws and I am very familiar with them.
The root of your two problems is the same problem.
I know exactly how you did it. You got the male coverplate screw mixed up with the reedplate screw. The coverplate screw is slightly fatter, but you can mix them up if you're not watching out for it. It will drop through the blow plate very easily and will start to thread into the draw plate. At this point, it will go in a little harder, because you're actually tapping a new set of threads. It feels a little tight, but you still might not notice the required torque increase. Once you take that coverplate screw out later, then actually put the right screw in it, it will appear sort of stripped. I say sort of, because you can feel the threads when you tighten the screw, but when you get to the end, it's won't go snug. That's because the threads are mating just a little, and when it starts to get some pressure, it slips. You'd think that by turning it like that you'd REALLY strip it, but it doesn't strip. It just keeps doing the same thing.
Thus it sort of, but not all the way appears stripped - exactly as you described above.
Yet, you have no recollection of ever stripping it out, because you didn't. You just tapped some new threads for a fatter screw into it.
Your solution at this point would be to just put a coverplate screw in the reedplate. Send me your address and I'll send you one. Or I figure you have some Special 20 coverplate screws/nuts laying around. Just put one of those in there.
@Bob
I never had trouble with stripping the heads of the screws. If you are stripping screws, you are tightening the reedplates to tight. I feel the same way about overtightening screws as you do about playing too hard, lol.
I use the screwdriver in the Seydel toolkit and the screwdriver is the secret to how I get consistent torque on the reedplate screws. I apply very little pressure as I turn and when the screw is the correct torque, it pops out. No more tightening is needed.
Oh, and edited to add: there have been several incarnations of the coverplate screws. I think there have been maybe four types since 2007. The ones before that were really screwy and stripped out easily - I'm talking the coverplate screws. The ones since have been a lot better/
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David
Elk River Harmonicas
Elk River Harmonicas on Facebook
"It's difficult to think anything but pleasant thoughts while eating a homegrown tomato." - Lewis Grizzard
"Also, drinking homemade beer." - David Payne
Last Edited by on May 14, 2012 6:37 PM
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HarpNinja
2436 posts
May 14, 2012
8:43 PM
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Sounds good to me! Thanks!!!! I need to see how many I accidently stripped. What size are they technically?
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
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barbequebob
1905 posts
May 15, 2012
8:26 AM
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The screwdrivers in they Seydel kit, if I remember correctly, are made by Wiha, and those are the best Pozidriv screwdrivers made, hands down and the problems I had were largely using Chinese made screwdrivers. I take my time to avoid those problems and if someone has a short patience span, you can expect it to happen. Since using Wiha's, I seldom have that problem. I have noticed that brass Pozidriv screws have a bit more give where the screwdriver goes in that SS does, but either one can get stripped if overtightened.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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barbequebob
1906 posts
May 15, 2012
8:26 AM
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The screwdrivers in they Seydel kit, if I remember correctly, are made by Wiha, and those are the best Pozidriv screwdrivers made, hands down and the problems I had were largely using Chinese made screwdrivers. I take my time to avoid those problems and if someone has a short patience span, you can expect it to happen. Since using Wiha's, I seldom have that problem. I have noticed that brass Pozidriv screws have a bit more give where the screwdriver goes in that SS does, but either one can get stripped if overtightened.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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bloozefish
23 posts
May 16, 2012
10:20 AM
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Thumbs up for the Wiha screwdrivers. I never realized what a good screwdriver could be until I bought a set of Wihas from MicroMark......not just for harp work, but for any small "fiddley" screws. Well worth the price, IMO.
james
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barbequebob
1907 posts
May 16, 2012
10:23 AM
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For precision work, Wiha is sort of the equivalent of what companies like SnapOn and Matco are to professional auto mechanics. Tho you can get by with cheaper stuff, nothing replaces good quality tools not just for how they work, but also how well they hold up just in terms of long term use alone.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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MP
2265 posts
May 16, 2012
12:53 PM
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"I never realized what a good screwdriver could be until I bought a set of Wihas from MicroMark......not just for harp work, but for any small "fiddley" screws. Well worth the price, IMO."
i have two from the Seydel kit. the Pozi is the best screwdriver i've ever owned. the screwdriver for the reed screws is also great for eyeglasses and stuff.
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MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
click user name for info-
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
991 posts
May 16, 2012
1:52 PM
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Elk River Harmonicas endorses Wiha screwdrivers. Just kidding but that what I use. They are awesome.
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David
Elk River Harmonicas
Elk River Harmonicas on Facebook
"It's difficult to think anything but pleasant thoughts while eating a homegrown tomato." - Lewis Grizzard
"Also, drinking homemade beer." - David Payne
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