LittleBubba
218 posts
Apr 30, 2012
1:33 PM
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We played a BIG party Saturday nite and late in the evening the host's girlfriend asked to sit in on a tune, singing.
It was almost like something Saturday Night Live would do as a spoof. I've heard bad karaoke singers often, but this girl not only sang completely off key, she sang so loud it hurt.. and she knew all the words. I honestly couldn't believe my ears... and then she took us around for another go. If it hadn't been late, and if people weren't tryin' to be tolerant 'cuz of her relationship to the host, we'd would've shut her down.
Afterwards, she asked the host, "How was it, Sweetheart?". He said it was "conceptual" (lol) and then said, "I know you had fun, but it was absolutely awful".
I've never been caught so off guard by a guest in my life.
Ring a bell with anybody....?
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bluemoose
732 posts
Apr 30, 2012
1:41 PM
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re-posted from "Jam Etiquette":
Stuff not to do, as aptley demonstrated last Tuesday:
1. Jump on stage mid song with your very drunk friend and start singing Mustang Sally. (But it does help if you are two hot babes. The band will switch to MS in mid verse for you but only because they can. But just this once.)
2. Be very drunk and beg one of the jam hosts to let you sing Red House with the assurances that you won't embarrass him and then shout the lyrics with no sense of melody, timing or anything while reading them off your iphone. (But if you are six foot three and built like a brick shithouse and are friends with the hot babes from #1 we will patiently wait for you to decide when the chord change may happen. But just this once.)
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MrVerylongusername
2354 posts
Apr 30, 2012
1:42 PM
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Oh yeah. From the guy who started telling racist jokes as soon as he got the mic in his hand (cue frantic scramble to the amp's off-switch) to the dreadful karaoke-wannabe friend of the clubowner who could only sing the song in one key (and it wasn't the one the band was in).
Lessons learned the hard way.
Now we tell people that our public liability insurance doesn't cover other people on stage, so we can't have anyone up. Total BS, but it works.
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harmonicanick
1570 posts
Apr 30, 2012
2:42 PM
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Hey but LittleBubbha; one hopes you were paid comensurate with your pain!! lol, and maybe food and beer as well??
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LittleBubba
220 posts
Apr 30, 2012
2:53 PM
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Couldn't get paid enough for that. It was at the end of the night, where decent musician friends are gettin' up for a kind of round robin jam, and the sound man had been sent home, so there was nobody with the guts/opportunity to turn her volume down. It caught everybody off guard.
I've never had that happen to me in 45 yrs. of playin' for $$. Not like THAT.
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eharp
1811 posts
Apr 30, 2012
4:01 PM
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a couple of songs?
from the host's girlfriend?
you're making too much out of it.
if anything, it makes your band look gracious and, obviously, sound better.
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nacoran
5615 posts
Apr 30, 2012
5:27 PM
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I got it the other way last week. I'm always nervous about going up unless I've practiced specific tunes, and particularly nervous about going up with someone I don't know. That being the case I chickened out when someone asked me up on stage last week.
Well, last week there was a $50 prize. After my band performed a folk guy asked me up on stage. I totally could have handled it, but like I said, I get nervous going up with someone new. This time though it cost me a share of the prize! Oh well. :)
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mikolune
127 posts
Apr 30, 2012
5:33 PM
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I share the view of e-harp: unless she scared all the guests out of the house, the audience knows this is not 'you' and that you are making a kind gesture.
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Stevelegh
486 posts
Apr 30, 2012
6:21 PM
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If you're paid to play, you're nothing more than the help.
Even if you're unpaid and are doing it for a favour, you're the help.
If the boss's' anybody wants to get up and sing, indulge them. You're the help.
(This is the best bit) If the boss's 'anybody' comes up and makes a complete dickhead of them self, you have a right to look bemused or even piss yourself laughing, audience allowing. What you don't have a right to do is stop playing. You're the help.
One of the small things I've learned from being 'the help'.
Last Edited by on Apr 30, 2012 6:23 PM
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eharp
1812 posts
Apr 30, 2012
7:15 PM
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steve- or you become the hero by keeping the train wreck to a minimum. for instance, after the song you could apologize barely off mic- "that was our fault. we shoulda practiced that one a little more."
i encourage folks to come up and sing during gigs. we've had some great singers, and bad, but lots of fun. we give them the lyrics and have the singer assist as to when to start and stop.
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MrVerylongusername
2355 posts
May 01, 2012
2:41 AM
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So if I employ a gas fitter to fix my central heating, I can expect him to let my 6 year old have a go with his blow torch?
If I hire a taxicab, I have a right to ask to drive the car? He should "indulge me" shouldn't he? I'm the client.
If I hire a maid to clean my house - well no I'd better stop there.
When my band is booked, we have a contract. From experience, that contract is written and signed by both parties. We play our standard set, they pay us. That's the terms in a nutshell. If we bring anyone else onto the stage, it is because we choose to.
We are employed to play our set. We are not employed to be a backing band. If someone want to book a backing band then we're open to offers, but changing the terms of a contract on the fly is not acceptable.
It has happened that we've been asked in advance of the gig to back someone, for instance a daughter wanted to sing to her father. She told us in advance, we invited her along to a rehearsal, we had time to work at it and ended up doing a polished little number. Noone looked stupid. That's the only way I'm prepared to do it now.
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waltertore
2225 posts
May 01, 2012
3:23 AM
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sorry to hear about that littlebubba. I have been there many times in my younger days....... Nowadays if someone I don't know (musically) comes up and asks to sit in, I graciously thank them for offering but decline. If that loses a gig for me I am thankful for it because I have no interest in being onstage with people that can't perform. The hassle of moving my gear to and from, travel, etc, makes those few moments on a stage very precious to me. Luckily I rarely have people ask to sit in anymore. It must be my vibe is radiating on that subject:-) Live music performances are turning into amatuer jam sessions more and more. The band playing is often so aftaid of losing their gig they will do most anything to accomodate. Smile, Smile, Smile, come one come all, we love to have you up..... Not my thing. Walter
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Last Edited by on May 01, 2012 3:25 AM
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jbone
886 posts
May 01, 2012
4:57 AM
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well to me it's always a gamble. sometimes you lose in a way. sometimes you win. we once let an unknown guy behind the drums and he turned out to be a former Johnny Winter drummer. really great drummer, good singer, very nice guy.
and who said it, but people at a party know who the band is and who the idiot is who can't sing.
many times i've been on stage at a jam and been the one who kept his cool and led the band out of the weeds and into actually playing songs from start to finish.
sometimes discretion is crucial. one night we were playing a neighborhood joint north of Dallas and the owner brought a guy over and asked if he could sit in on harp, which i agreed to until the guy wanted to use one of my harps. at which point i apologized and told him i'd never consider asking for his toothbrush either. comic relief did not work. we were never asked back despite rocking the place down that night, even without any help from the amateur section. perhaps i could have given up a spare harp that once, but it can be a dangerous precedent.
maybe i am the help but even so, i have a great product i sell and if the buyer decides they don't like it, i'll go someplace else. at the end of the day we do something that most of the population won't or can't. we play (hopefully) good music and we are worth our wages and more.
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harmonicanick
1571 posts
May 01, 2012
5:23 AM
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@jbone
Well said!
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paulbunyn
7 posts
May 01, 2012
7:50 AM
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I can see both sides of this discussion. I cannot speak from experience because I have none. I look forward to the day I work up the nerve and have the skill to play on stage. I hope all you guys that are so down on letting a newby get their feet wet can remember back to when a band/group let/invited you up for your first time.
I can see not letting someone up if you are playing for a convention, a city (Memphis in May), BBQ Festival, or you know there is a talent scout in the audience somewhere. But if your playing for a private party, small gathering, local small bar, etc. Chill out, check with the host for approval, introduce them and let it be known they are not a regular part of the group. I accept that not just any gig is the right place/time to have an unknown person play along, but I cannot see NEVER letting anyone join you either.
I may change my mind after I have some experience under my belt, but for now I know I will be be grateful for the band that helps me break the ice when the time comes.
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lumpy wafflesquirt
568 posts
May 01, 2012
2:11 PM
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I was at an open mic the other night. the was a guitarist and singer and mid song the the guitarist called across to me 'harp solo in A coming up' ..... Off I went :^)
If I go to gigs when my buddy is playing I always take my harp case, he often gets me up to play a few songs with him.
but then they have both heard me play before and they aren't big gigs, just pub gigs.
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didjcripey
239 posts
May 01, 2012
3:05 PM
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I think it makes the band look really professional when they do their best to cover for the nightmare guest, especially when that guest is a friend of their host. The house band at our local club has had some doozies, and they were amazing at changing tempo, volume and dynamics to try to help out. Its the guest who looks bad, not the band.
I also think its good not to take yourself too seriously. See how gracious BB king is when Bruce Willis accompanies him on harp.
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Willspear
174 posts
May 01, 2012
3:17 PM
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I have born witness to some awful vocals and or sit in instruments.
All the bad sit in were worth it when this unknown girl jasmine asked to sing at a friends gig. She was cute and his band is fun and all about involving the crowd.
She then proceeded to put on one of the best vocal performances I have ever seen.
Turns out she was a well schooled and gifted opera singer. Her voice is to die for. She never got into singing jazz or blues or roots stuff but she dove in and was totally meshing well with that bands rockabilly vibe.
Never saw it coming
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eharp
1813 posts
May 01, 2012
4:33 PM
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jbone- i carry some extra harps for when someone wants to "play".
i give them the disclaimer: "this harp has been played by other people asking the exact same thing you are asking. personally, i wouldnt play it, but you are welcome to it."
i, also, carry a couple unused harps for people who take a true interest. i have gotten my money back on the new harps from students i pick up.
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mojojojo
97 posts
May 02, 2012
3:14 AM
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Mssrs. Little Bubba and Blue Moose:
Crazy. It WAS Mustang Sally not two weeks ago at a gig, some drunk woman ran up and screamed and screamed to no end. Considering she was an Indonesian in her 20s I'm surprised she knew the words!
It was tolerated because she was pretty hot (and a second hot woman was with her) and this was a private international gig mostly for cops!
Still, i had a headache into the next day.
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Stevelegh
490 posts
May 02, 2012
8:56 AM
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Mr V:
'So if I employ a gas fitter to fix my central heating, I can expect him to let my 6 year old have a go with his blow torch?
If I hire a taxicab, I have a right to ask to drive the car? He should "indulge me" shouldn't he? I'm the client.'
I don't even know how you arrived at those comparisons to letting the wife of the guy who's paying you to get up on stage and have a sing, no matter how bad or good they could be. So what?
It's only music and the point of someone booking a band is that they want to have fun, maybe get drunk and maybe do things that people do when having a good time, like get up and sing with the band. We do it all the time. It doesn't reflect badly on us and sometimes we find excellent singers jump up on stage. Other times, we get some really bad singers and everyone has a laugh, in a good natured way.
Last Edited by on May 02, 2012 8:58 AM
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MrVerylongusername
2356 posts
May 02, 2012
10:56 AM
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Steve
The point is that just because money has changed hands, the band is under no obligation to do anything other than what has been agreed prior to the gig. That's all. Critical point - prior to the gig. No surprises.
Perhaps this style of working is very different to your band's? I have no idea what kind of working band you are in - let me tell you you only have to have one promotor try to underpay you or one venue cancel a £750 gig on you at the last minute and you will understand why a contract is important.
So we are working to a contract, we run our band like a business and we take pride in our appearance, performance and a reputation we have laboriously built up from 9 nine years of hard work. Half the band are full time pro musicians, the other half are, like me doing it for fun. Pub gigs are advertising loss leaders for the real gigs: weddings, corporates and festivals. Gigs where reputation and professionalism count for a lot.
If the client wants to negotiate something extra on top of the standard package, that's fine. We've dressed as zombies for Halloween, we've learned songs for first dances and (as mentioned above) we'll happily have people onstage with us: friends, ex-bandmates, local musicians of known ability. If, as you suggest, the booking party wants his wife to sing, fine... let's hear what she can do before the gig, let's work together to make this something more slick than a last minute, off-key train wreck. No surprises. No unknown quantities.
In a previous band I was passed a note from the wings, "Can my mate sing Mustang Sally?" (it's always f***ing Mustang Sally). The bandleader agreed and we allowed a clearly pissed-up neanderthal onstage. I handed him a mic - his drunk up mates cheering him on. Then the guitarist signalled that he needed to tune up - talk the crowd he said. I had no mic, the human detritus onstage with us then took it upon himself to "entertain" with his jokes...
"So a Jew and a paki walk into a shop"
Seriously, I've never seen a sound guy move so fast. I'm still not sure how we got out alive.
Then there's the problem of getting people off the stage again, or the one's who think they can now just invade the stage and grab a mic 'cos they've seen others allowed up. You open Pandora's Box and it's hard to close again.
Frankly (and I'm probably exposing all my prejudices now) if some half-pissed, x-factor, karaoke wannabe is so f***ing keen to get on the stage, then let them form their own band, let them hump the gear, let them hire and fire the drummers.
I'll never willingly submit control again to an unknown quantity.
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Stevelegh
491 posts
May 02, 2012
12:11 PM
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@MrV:
That experience you've recounted would probably leave me wanting to never play out again. Fricken hell!!! A fair and valid point very well made.
We've been very fortunate in that respect, plus we tend to go on reputation and always deal with the punter on a personal level (no agents), or have a reference from a friend and always recommend that the person come see us live in a pub before booking us for a function. They get what they see then. As a result, there's never been anyone who's welched on the cash in 20 years.
We've had pissed up knobheads try to get up on stage, but due to the way we do it, we always either know them or know someone who knows them and we manage to get rid of them. Girls are a bit different. We let them have a little warble and their drunk partner or mates will cheer them on, but we've not had any serious incidents.
I think we need to start a 'Band Disaster / Legendary Story' thread off the back of this.
I'm going to put one up that'll make your hair curl...
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eharp
1814 posts
May 02, 2012
6:41 PM
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and we found the next "mr. warmth."
no had stated there was an obligation, very.
i think most agreed it was not that major of a deal.
it's sometimes the free extras that make you stand out.
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jbone
889 posts
May 03, 2012
4:46 AM
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@paulbunyn:
paul, this is why there are open mic and jam nights in a lot of places all over the globe. when a new gal or guy is ready they screw up their courage, head out to a jam someplace, observe what the etiquette at that place is, sign up ad/or talk to the right people, and get on stage when invited.
i cut my teeth on jam stages, it's where i learned a lot of what i needed to know, not just about the mechanics of the harp but about manners and dynamics and fitting myself into a group of people with a common goal- making good cohesive music.
if there are no jams close by perhaps there is a church with a music program. maybe some friends sit around on a weekend at the house and pick instruments and have a sort of informal jam. perhaps you, paul, have room at home to invite a guitar player over to mess with acoustic music, then later expanding into the more wild and crazy electrified branch of things.
before i really knew very much about playing- when my bag of tricks was pretty small- i was asked to sit in with bands and then to join bands. this was not thanks to stunning skill with a harp but i think much more thanks to having manners on stage and being a friendly and outgoing person off stage. sometimes that got me run over and left i the ditch and there were lots of times i got drowned out by huge stage volume along the way, but eventually one learns discretion.
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jbone
895 posts
May 06, 2012
8:09 AM
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i do recall a place we did a jam for a few years where the owner was a wannabee singer. sometimes he'd wait until late in the evening and get on a mic and sing the nastiest raunchiest most distasteful crap i ever heard. i mean folks who had been liking the jam would get up and leave and we wouldn't see them again.
what do you do? here's the guy who's paying you, but he's running off his own- and your- business! thankfully this didn't happen too often. eventually he sold to his managers and they managed to really screw stuff up. so even though the original owner was an a$$, he did pay, and the new guys were not just a$$es, they wanted to cut the pay to the band!
i was at a jam in hot springs arkansas a few years ago and a gal got up and sang one. it was "stormy monday" but like an opera diva might sing it on a very bad night. complete with arm waving and total hamming it up. i wish there was video, it's hard to explain how off it was. the house band was trying to keep composure but you could see on their faces how hard it was not to bust loose laughing. but one thing you had to admire, she did not stop for anything. and who knows, she may now be a karaoke queen someplace.
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