I'm looking for a decent tube amp for around $300. Currently going back and forth between VHT Special 6 combo AND VOX Ac4tv. Which one of these would you recc. or is there something else out there?
VHT Special 6...Hands down. The Vox is built with a very wimpy PC board that makes modding difficult . You need great care not to fry the board. VHT is wired on a turret board and more mod friendly. The Vox is rather bright for harp out of the box, and with a sealed back, switching tubes or anything else is difficult. There are other types of amps beside these 2 that are also good for harp, if that is what you are getting the amp for.
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2012 11:32 AM
You could check with Greg Heumann about one of his rebuilt Kalamazoo Models One or Two. Great tone and vintage quality. He doesn't always have one for under $300, but he lets anyone on his mailing list know when he has something up for grabs.
Those vht amps are pretty sloppy build quality from what I've seen, but I dunno about the others; maybe just as ordinary. Super champ xd should be around that money too. If that's too loud, I actually think the Vibro champ xd is ok, and cheaper. Mine has just started to sound real nice; guess the speaker has broken in at last? Not many recommend it though. Maybe there's still a few epi valve jrs working ok. But yes. What do you want to do with it is the important question. ----------
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2012 8:41 AM
The 'Zoo would suit your needs for sit ins and practice, no question there. It makes a good recording amp as well, but if you were to have Greg equip one of his with his signature line out jack, the best way to go would still be to mic the amp rather than line it into the recording mixer. That way the true tone from the speaker would be caught in the mix. ---------- Hawkeye Kane
Less than a month ago I was asking the same question. I was hesitating between the VHT or a Kalamazoo. I never played trough a VHT but I now have a Zoo and I'll second the Zoo it's great.
Martin
---------- Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Isaac Asimov
I guess those fenders are not really tube amps in a sense. Hybrid amps really, but I think they're good. Use the clean channel on the super, voice 4 on the Vibro (same thing). Bit bright, I just crank the bass and cut the treble, but you can remove the "brite" cap, c43 I think it is. Billm knows. My little vc is rewarding for practice and draws nice comments at jams. I did some recording with it too.i thought it was pretty good intil i heard the trax I did with an AC15C1, which just blew it away. You in the states jibber jazz? ----------
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2012 9:11 AM
FWIW, i picked up the Vox AC4TV a year or two ago before learning about the other amps you mention... so i can't give you any head-to-head comparison. but as i mentioned in that other thread, if i had to do it over again, i'd probably go with one of Greg's modded amps (or, if i was even a little bit handy, i might go with a VHT and mod it for harp).
here's what i've learned about the Vox for harp (retail $249.99, or was, i think)...
CONS: --waaaay too hot and chimey OOTB for harp. --there is NO initial head room; you need to replace the 12AX7 Sovtek with a 12AY7 tube (i use a National NOS from Doug's Tubes), and it works well. --it is an EL84 amp--which a number of harp players don't seem to care for as much as the 6V6 power tube. --closed cabinet design--so it can run a little hot, and perhaps sound a little boxy (to some). --has only Volume and Tone controls (aside from Wattage).
PROS: --very, very portable for a tube amp, great for practice, coffee shops, very small gigs. --10" Celeston speaker is very nice for harp. --3 wattage settings are convenient, especially for home use; you don't have to annoy your neighbors (or your acoustic guitar accompaniment)... unless you want to. --crunches best in the 4 watt setting, but the power attenuation does deliver some decent crunch in the 1/4 and 1 watt settings (with a hot mic--like a CM or CR). --looks cool and different, if that matters. --has a line out.
OVERALL: if i want to play clean, i'll plug-in with an aptly-named Ultimate 545; for dirty, i'm using an Astatic Biscuit with a Shure CM and a Lone Wolf Octave pedal (which is also great for cutting feedback). so you can make it ring, or you can make it honk.
but you probably can't make it honk as well as the VHT or the Heumann-modded 'Zoo, is my guess (especially without pedals and a good mic).
good luck, dude.
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2012 10:12 AM
Vht sp6 is a great amp much better than the Vox to my ears. The issues with its construction is no better or worse than most modern amps. It is however not a pcb amp and is quite easy to work on.
The one issue I had was the pull boost volume pot breaking which was my fault. It got bumped by something at a small show and tweaked the shaft. Would have happened to any pull style knob.
Not sure why it was pulled as I never use the boost but meh. The replacement was cheap and easy to fix. It would be a bench only repair by tech.
Sonically. It compares quite favorably to a blackface champ or even a harpgear 2. Not as classy as the hg2 but the sound is where it is at.
The 10" speaker makes it quite a contender for the small amp scene. The price after swapping the speaker is still under. 300. The stock speaker was fine but inefficient.
Doesn't cut it for playing with a loud group for me but others have success micing it or adding a line out. For any gig I'd do that for though. I prefer a Princeton. Which costs far more and the c10r in it is not my favorite speaker for anything.
For home playing it is the bees knees or small combo playing.
I'd buy a re worked Kalamazoo or danelectro of one was available for similar money.
The vht takes effects really well which is worth noting. I find many other small amps get muddy with anything other than delay.
The jury has not deliberated yet but the latest Fender Pawnshop series (The Excelsior)is due out in mid April.16 watts I believe with a 15 inch speaker 2-V6,s and 3 pre amp tubes for $300..I,m curious to hear it after it comes out.It seems a little low in price but who knows.
5 watt Valco's can't be beat for harp. If your patient you can sometimes get them for around $300 or less. The Supro Spectators and Oahu's with the 6V6,6SL7 5Y3 tube line-up. Ronnie Shellist demo-ing his recent Spectator find.
I was gonna say some of those laney amps at ok, but a bit pricey and I think not so easy to find in the states. Still, the LC15 seems pretty useful. @ray. Nice clip. ----------
First off I am not as expert as most on this board,but you did right asking here.
I bought the VHT special 6,and am very happy with it.Leaving it stock right now,but alot of good mod friendly gents around,do the search.
I play around with the lone wolf V2 delay and harp attack,both work well with the stock VHT.Gregs amps and mics are a class act,and he is a straight shooter,just like I strive to be.His 545 ultimate drives that little amp well,and also don't sound to shabby on my HG50.I usually play through the PA at jams harp sounds better thru this mic than the eqed vocal setups.
Many choices and easy to throw money out,and still not be happy.I will probably get a line out mod,and get the vht voiced different maybe down the road.I have played some house parties with both guitar player and I plugged into the Vht sounded just right.
And another question I asked in another thread pertaining to VHT that never got answered...
Is it pretty much the consensus to use the Special 6 combo as opposed to getting the Special 6 head and cabinet? Seems to me that the Celestion speakers in the cabs would be a little beefier than the VHT speaker in the combo. ---------- Hawkeye Kane
I like celestions for guitar i have used green backs for years being a marshall or orange guy for most of my playing but my experience with harp has been lackluster. I am sure someone would feel otherwise.
I think the stock speaker sounds good but was a bit dark. I swapped it for an eminence ramrod and the amp was louder and got fuller without getting dirtier But I had the speaker. May not have changed it otherwise.
@FatJesus - I don't know where the notion that harp players prefer 6V6's comes from - except that maybe it is because it was what Fender used, or more common. FYI - the much loved Kalamazoo is an EL84-based amp. ---------- /Greg
Greg, thank you for bringing up this point. It's something that's bemused me for some time now. To me, EL84's give off more natural distorion than 6V6's do, which is one of the main reasons I bought a 'Zoo and not a Special 6. The Peavey Delta Blues, which if you read my comparison piece not long ago, compares favorably to the 6V6 powered RI Princeton Reverb, and it too is an EL84 amp. ---------- Hawkeye Kane
@greg/hawkeye: egads, my bad. that's something i've picked up here and on harp-l over the last year or so. i guess that's based on the Fender thing, as greg mentions.
so, good to know. to my very untrained ear, i didn't think the EL84 sounded bad for harp.
Last Edited by on Apr 10, 2012 1:03 PM
I have amps that use 6V6 and some that use el84s. They both work well for harp in my estimation. I like my Zoo 2 clone and my Gibson GA-5, as well as a couple other s. I will say that my preference is the 6V6 or 6L6 for my taste. That's the cool thing , everyone doesn't have to sound the same. There really is no "best" amp out there. There are a lot of good ones and then there are the rest. It is all subjective. Describe the color red..
El84 gets a bad rap from the blues jr which I think is a terrible amp for both harmonica and guitar
I have never been happy with any tone from a blues jr I have been able to get.
My leanings tend to favor fender amps with 6v6 or 6l6 or old vintage stuff like mascos abd gibson. I go back and forth over cathode and fixed bias amps. I doubt if I went and a/b the same amp with the only variable being tube type assuming quality and biased properly that I would freak out about tonal nuance. I am sure the effect would be apparent but neither would always be better.
I guess I have to agree with you on the Blues Jr. giving a stigma to the EL84. OOTB, Blues Jr.'s suck for the most part.
But I've seen them tweaked to where they sounded pretty darn good, and FAR better than a Pro Jr. ever hoped to be. But then again, the Hot Rod Deluxe is 6L6 driven, and it genuinely SUCKS as a harp amp.
I guess it truly comes down to one's personal power tube taste, and the wiring of the amplifier itself. ---------- Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by on Apr 10, 2012 3:00 PM
"Did you know that when you play a 3 draw and 4 draw at the same time a third note appears that sounds two octave lower than your 2 draw pitch? This is called a Difference Tone and is what we listen for when testing harmonica amps (a G Harmonica is a great harp to use for this test). Simply stated, a good amp is one where you can here the difference tone well and it fills up the room with bass (warm and resonant bass response) and a bad one is where you can't hear it (thin tone) well (or in some cases at all)." I Haven't tried it. Yet. Bet I will, later, Most of my amps, Vibro champ xd, SFPrinceton Reverb, hot rod deville, Filmosound 601, are 6v6/6l6 amps. Only my home brew champ/zoo runs a el84, and my 30w Ashton combo (very marshall-ish) has 2 el34. I really like them all for various reasons. I didn't acquire any of them based on the valve complement.
The trouble is unless you are modding yourself or have a connection it gets expensive and a humble blues jr oob is last I looked between 400-600 before mods so if you were to get the tweed one which people do just because it's tweed. You mod it and you are approaching the cost of a great amp. Figure on 100 bucks for mods and another hundred ish on a speaker if you go for a nice weber or emi.
Compared to that pricing the premium for small to mid size harp amps is small. I think a hg2 is what 800 the mission 1x12 was 999 last I looked. The modded tweed blues jr with its plastic jacks and knobs and pcb is around 700-800 ball park. So for very minimal money you get something that presumably out of the box just plain rocks with a warranty that isn't violated and personal service.
The pro jr is only an option if you find a used one in no way shape or form is it worth 4 bones plus tax. Not a bad amp but it is pretty far down the list of amps I'd buy. I have played through one and wasn't interested I'd rather seek out a silver face champ for probably the same money. I know champs have less power but they can especially if outfitted with a 10 rival the feedback threshold volume of the mid size fenders aside from a Princeton.
These are the reasons I like the vht a lot -It is decent quality -Hand wired and easy to work on -Oob it sounds good including the often changed speaker -Attenuation switch -Usable tone knob -Stock it is able to help Someone with less than perfect cup get good tone -really responsive to the single tube change in the preamp. Of you need less gain get a lower gain tube and it cures it. -very light -very easy tube access if you are willing to remove the screen on the back which I did the day I bought it.
The strikes against it are less than bomb proof knobs which is the same issue most 90s and later fenders have. It is not American same as current gear by other brands.
Vht is also funny considering the real vht before the name was appropriated have nothing in common with the new ones.
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2012 8:41 AM
