jim
1228 posts
Apr 02, 2012
2:25 AM
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Dear Adam,
If you thought about improving MBH, you have most likely run into big-time problems, most of which are impossible to solve. Like normal anti-spam control, topics & boards, private messages.
Basically, to improve anything using the current system, you'd need to trash the whole thing, and start from scratch. You can't even merge / migrate the user database to a real forum engine like phpbb3 / vbulletin AFAIK.
My offer is to merge our two forums into one.
Since there are people who like the current MBH system (which is called a bulletin board), and those people wouldn't want to browse subforums and topics, I suggest to make a hybrid forum:
1) Your website stays the same.
2) The "BLUES HARP FORUM" link leads to the "chat" subforum on my domain (I'll explain why a bit further on).
3) I put a link back to your site from the forum.
4) We trash the current bulletin board.
5) Users are manually transferred to the new forum DB, or register there themselves. This is done once, and there are not so many active users to transfer anyway. I hope you have a way to sort them by activity...
6) The "chat" subforum will mirror the current system where posts are made on a single forum board with no classification. So the old users who like that can use it like they used to. The moderators, however, can select the most interesting topics, and move them into appropriate subforums/categories, where they can be found later. Phpbb allows to move a topic, while retaining it linked at the original place.
7) Of course, Adam gets admin rights, and MBH mods retain their status on the new forum. They will have much less work to do though, since will be no spam-bots to fight against.
My offer is free, I'll help with migration and other technical stuff, and then explain in detail how to administer / moderate phpbb3 if necessary.
I want to see the harp community grow and improve.
Here's only a few of the bonuses that the merge can bring.
- MORE USERS. My forum currently lists about 300 real registered users (no spam-bots/auto-generated accounts). This will all be added to your current user-list
- A real forum with subforums, topics, voting and all bells and whistles.
- Private messaging system.
- Fastest dedicated linux server you can find. I pay 50$ per month for hosting. This also allows full freedom software-wise.
- NO SPAM. I'm running the latest software & plugins that are effective against spam-bots. Of course, you don't need to enter captchas to post in topics.
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Free Harp Learning Center
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boris_plotnikov
716 posts
Apr 02, 2012
2:31 AM
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I think it's great idea. I like harperclub.com for nice interface, while it lacks enough activity, while MBH is very active forum but with crappy capchas and weak navigation.
Adam, I'll be glad if you'll accept Jim's offer.
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Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
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FreeWilly
133 posts
Apr 02, 2012
2:35 AM
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Hahaha. Dadaaaa.
Now although this forum does not have a private messaging-option, Adam's E-mail address is well know to everyone here. So why didn't you E-mail him this stuff? So people can comment on this? To pressure Adam a bit? This is so not happening :) Adam is a smart guy, and I suspect he might not accept this early birthday-'present'! Daddaaaaa!
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jim
1229 posts
Apr 02, 2012
2:37 AM
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@FreeWilly what do you mean? Smart not to accept an offer to improve the forum for free?
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Free Harp Learning Center
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FreeWilly
134 posts
Apr 02, 2012
2:56 AM
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This kind of a transaction would be based on trust, right? Trust is something you build via direct person-to-person contact. Not via posts on a forum. Am I right?
And - adding to that - your post always display a very cool passion for the harp, no doubt. So do your video's. That whole customize thing you did - good stuff. But you are often the guy that provoces. That makes one-sides statements. That's not the best way to build trust. So why would one want to make a very important part of what one worked very hard for to built up, dependent on that provocative guy?
Your proposal is, btw, a very good example of a one-sided statement. If Adam would like to change the forum, what would be best for him? Everything you offer, he could probably get somewhere else, in a more elegant way, not making this forum dependent on someone else (even if that person would be the pope himself, that would be a disadvantage). So I can understand you make him the offer. But I can imagine you also already know, what the answer is going to be, right? And I think that's why you posted it instead of email it. And that's why I laughed. Thought you could appreciate the joy of it all. I'm sorry if it didn't ;)
Cheers Jim!
Last Edited by on Apr 02, 2012 6:37 AM
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FreeWilly
135 posts
Apr 02, 2012
2:59 AM
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jokes really aren't funny when explained btw :)
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jim
1230 posts
Apr 02, 2012
3:10 AM
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This kind of a transaction is something based on collaboration. Taking something one has worked on and bringing it together with something that someone else has worked on. This is exactly what I'm offering.
And collaboration is something that is inherent in the idea of a forum. I propose to improve two good forums to create a super-community. And I'm offering it with the means of a community (posting it on forum). Don't see anything wrong here. This kind of change is something that should be discussed openly.
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Free Harp Learning Center
Last Edited by on Apr 02, 2012 3:10 AM
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FreeWilly
136 posts
Apr 02, 2012
3:18 AM
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Let's agree to disagree. Good luck to you. Please don't ban me if the super-community comes into existence ;)
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jim
1231 posts
Apr 02, 2012
3:25 AM
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in fact. I've never banned anyone
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Free Harp Learning Center
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Arbite
153 posts
Apr 02, 2012
5:34 AM
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It's an awesome idea.
Help grow the harp community
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http://www.youtube.com/arbite83
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The Iceman
273 posts
Apr 02, 2012
5:58 AM
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My take on issues like this is, if Adam asks publicly for help in improving the site, public discussion is appropriate.
Otherwise, suggestions like this may be best handled as off list suggestions directly to Adam. It would be respectful to see what he has to say about this in private conversation.
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The Iceman
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geordiebluesman
569 posts
Apr 02, 2012
6:13 AM
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I'm with the Iceman on this, i would'nt dream of mooting such an idea without first of all checking with Adam.
If he was in favour then that would be the time to put it to the vote to see who wants change and who like myself feels at home and comefortable with the present set up.
I think your set up is great Jim but i think you have gone the wrong way about approaching this and have jumped the gun somewhat with regard to etiquete.
Last Edited by on Apr 02, 2012 6:14 AM
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Kingley
1954 posts
Apr 02, 2012
7:03 AM
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If it ain't broke, don't fix it! That's my view.
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Honkin On Bobo
1032 posts
Apr 02, 2012
7:25 AM
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I second Kingley's post. As much as we all hate and joke about spambots, are they that much of a problem on this forum, are they that pervasive? As for private messaging, does the forum really need it? Can't you just e-mail someone off forum if you wan't to talk with them privately? Regarding sub topics, I've never had a problem finding something that was posted on here (even if it means just asking the group), or reopening a discussion.
Sometimes less is more. Unless there's a specific functionality lacking that ADAM can't live without. I say leave it as is.
I'll type captcha codes 'till the cows come home rather than deal with a new/merged website. And complain about it after the fact of course.
Don't do it Adam, be the one site that doesn't adopt a tech "makeover" just because it can.
Last Edited by on Apr 02, 2012 7:46 AM
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harpnwillys
11 posts
Apr 02, 2012
7:38 AM
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Adam. Your site is Just fine Dont Do IT!!!!
Tom
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lor
112 posts
Apr 02, 2012
7:42 AM
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The only improvement I'd suggest to this forum site would be to have icons at the bottom of each page to take you to the next or other pages in a multi-page topic, duplicating the icons at the top of the pages.
As for merging into another server, site, software, etc. OMG what a lot of computerish to deal with Oy vay! I'd guess Adam would rather be in his woodshed with his music. JMO
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RT123
295 posts
Apr 02, 2012
7:46 AM
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I love the idea Jim. Adam did mention updating the site awhile back and he was asking for suggestions. This sounds like the best suggestion yet. Of course I don't know if it would work as seamlessly as you say but I will take you word for it.
If you believe in "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" you would still be using telephones with cords on them :)
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Honkin On Bobo
1033 posts
Apr 02, 2012
7:52 AM
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"If you believe in "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" you would still be using telephones with cords on them"
Yeah! ......and now we have twitter (appropriately named ironically enough) and facebook. A huge leap for mankind. That reminds me, yesterday I saw a dog peeing on a tree on my street. I'd better let the world know.
Last Edited by on Apr 02, 2012 8:42 AM
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tookatooka
2885 posts
Apr 02, 2012
8:07 AM
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Personally, I like the simplicity of this forum. It's just right IMO but we have to remember that one day MacWebsiteBuilder may decide not to support this format at some stage and then when we get gremlins, what are we gonna do?
As technology evolves this forum may fall by the wayside in terms of not being able to provide what we are looking for on the new handheld devices in the near future.
I'm not saying Adam should consider any offers made but it makes sense to me to run another forum in parallel for a period of time before pulling the plug entirely and using a platform which would be easier to maintain and keep up to date with new websurfing trends.
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MJ
400 posts
Apr 02, 2012
8:21 AM
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If Adam were to want the same setup as Jim, why not just make the switch. Unless Jim has a server/setup that is only available to him. I have used Jims site, and it is easy to navigate, much like all other forums. I will say that the traffic on Jims site is nowhere near what this site has and I recognize people from this site there, so ther is some duplication of membership. So I ask myself, why merge? Why not just switch?
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mandowhacker
112 posts
Apr 02, 2012
8:31 AM
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RT123 is correct. Adam did ask, on the forum, for ideas in upgrading and improving it.
With the forum owner having asked, on the forum----I see nothing that a forum member and frequent contributor (Jim) did wrong by responding, on the forum.
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Just when I got a paddle, they added more water to the creek.
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kudzurunner
3164 posts
Apr 02, 2012
8:35 AM
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@Jim: No thanks. I just don't have the time.
@RT123 and Mandowhacker: I asked for ideas more than a year ago; thought about upgrading the forum; and decided not to.
@Iceman: Your reading of my inclinations is correct.
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RT123
296 posts
Apr 02, 2012
10:26 AM
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I didn't realize you decided against it. I think it's always good to share new ideas on here. Maybe some people took Jims suggestion a different way than I did. I thought it was a honest gesture to help improve things. That being said, if changes are not wanted, then changes are not needed.
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Milsson
35 posts
Apr 02, 2012
10:41 AM
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Hey Adam can you please give away the thing that generates the most traffic to your domain and in return i´ll give you... Hmm.. Nothing.
Shamless business proposal i´d say.
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Learning To Reed
47 posts
Apr 02, 2012
11:26 AM
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I agree with Milsson. Remember, this is the same Jim that loves to publicly show and critique other people's work like Chris Michalek (shortly after he died - didn't have the guts to do it while Chris was alive and had a chance to respond), the Harpgear guy, Jimmy Gordon, etc. I don't forget dumb shit like this. This is unprofessional and tacky, as is not e-mailing Adam privately first before posting this thread. And now he wants to merge the most popular and best forum, MBH, with his? And we're supposed to think that is an honest business proposition? Maybe, maybe not, but I have a hard time with thinking it is based on the history of his actions.
MBH may not be perfect in functionality at times, but it's the best thing going right now.
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kudzurunner
3165 posts
Apr 02, 2012
11:40 AM
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I don't resent Jim for making his suggestion; it's not an unreasonable suggestion. I'm just pretty conservative when it comes to making significant changes to this website. There are ALWAYS unintended consequences, no matter how thoroughly one thinks things through. And I don't have the time to think them through, nor do I have the professional competency to think them through.
We've been through all this before. This rinky-dink little forum is a seething, vital, dynamic place, full of ideas and opinions. It delivers 60-65% of the daily traffic for the entire MBH website--which is to say, it anchors the entire website in some sense. I don't see any pressing reason for messing with it, non-optimized as it may legitimately be claimed to be.
Some of us remember a certain American harmonica company that made extravagant promises a few years back--promises it was unable to keep--and has been reaping a harvest of invective from frustrated blues harmonica players ever since. There's something to be said for not messing with something that's basically working. That's where my thinking is vis a vis this forum. The issue is closed.
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harpnwillys
13 posts
Apr 02, 2012
11:41 AM
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I second Learning To Reeds whole post & Buddhas stuff, I might not post much but I have been here since the first week this fourm started Adam called me & told me he was starting it up.
Tom
Last Edited by on Apr 02, 2012 11:51 AM
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
789 posts
Apr 02, 2012
11:51 AM
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Hey Adam, you could merge with the Elk River Harmonicas Forum. We have 256 members. Then, you would have like 5,000,256 members.
;)
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David
Elk River Harmonicas
Elk River Harmonicas on Facebook
"It's difficult to think anything but pleasant thoughts while eating a homegrown tomato." - Lewis Grizzard
"Also, drinking homemade beer." - David Payne
Last Edited by on Apr 02, 2012 11:52 AM
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The Iceman
274 posts
Apr 02, 2012
8:28 PM
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@kudzu "This rinky-dink little forum "
oh yeah?
nothing rinky about an idea who's time has come.
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The Iceman
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Frank
536 posts
Apr 03, 2012
9:14 AM
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There is something about the site and in particular the forum that just feels right and seems to make sense without getting in the way of logic...
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MP
2148 posts
Apr 03, 2012
1:11 PM
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this is the easiest forum to navigate. it has the best graphics. i never get lost. i am not very savvy.
i don't bother with Harp-L or the others. i think Harp-L is confusing. now Elk River is easy.
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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JInx
191 posts
Apr 03, 2012
1:58 PM
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@Frank, ......yes, it has that open bluesy vibe that Stefan Grossman's old Woodshed had.
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Greg Heumann
1554 posts
Apr 03, 2012
5:56 PM
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I HATE multiple sub-forum forums. Jeez - how much time do you have to have to check 9 sub-forums on every forum? Can't be done. I happen to like all the topics in one forum. The most popular/interesting ones naturally bubble to the top. Done.
Also, frequently topics are NOT easily classifiable as they relate to more than one subforum. Believe me, I'd like to see THIS forum updated with better forum software, but I for one DO NOT WANT A BUNCH OF SUBFORUMS!
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/Greg
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DanP
251 posts
Apr 03, 2012
6:15 PM
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I like the forum the way it is. This forum is one of the busiest harmonica forums on the web. A lot of people post here and there's something to be said for that. If it was to be divided into sub-groups, myself and others would probably miss some topics.
I would like to see one change though. Spam prevention characters that are readable.
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FreeWilly
145 posts
Apr 04, 2012
1:53 AM
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I like the spam prevention thing. I make a game out of it: will I have it right this time? Works for a lot of otherwise annoying things in live.
The dutch harmonica-forum is divided, and I always go straight to the 'recent postings', which are a lot less readable than a normal board like this forum has. Wat is usefull is a decent archive, but mr. Heumann already made clear what the problem is with that.
I'm not sure, whether this is all still being discussed, as Adam already said he isn't going to change it.
So. Now let's see if I get it right this time!
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FreeWilly
146 posts
Apr 04, 2012
1:53 AM
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Ow yeah!
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gene
1037 posts
Apr 04, 2012
7:31 PM
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Does Jim's site have page numbers at the top AND bottom of the pages? ;)
LOL...That's my ONLY issue with this site...No page numbers at the bottom. How major is that?!
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blueswannabe
137 posts
Apr 05, 2012
4:28 AM
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In my humble opinion, If it ain't broke, don't fix it.. And don't complicate this forum with numerous subforums. THe topics as displayed are likely to be read by more members than if buried in a subforum. And if they are more likely to be read by more members, then the topics would likely elicit more varied and diverse comments from those who would not otherwise comment if the subject were buried in a subforum. Moreover, I like the display and it is easy on the eyes. When forums fancy things up they end up screwing it up.
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
806 posts
Apr 05, 2012
6:28 PM
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There are two reasons I think this forum has been successful.. subforums don't keep people off, there are highly successful ones that have those.
reason No. 1
It's Adam and he has a following.
No. 2
Freedom of Speech. I can't believe some of the things that get said on here sometimes. It's the fact that pretty much anything that is protected by the First Amendment (except religion) goes here. That's the way it ought to be.
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David
Elk River Harmonicas
Elk River Harmonicas on Facebook
"It's difficult to think anything but pleasant thoughts while eating a homegrown tomato." - Lewis Grizzard
"Also, drinking homemade beer." - David Payne
Last Edited by on Apr 05, 2012 6:28 PM
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Gnarly
179 posts
Apr 06, 2012
4:56 AM
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Hmm, trying to think of something outrageous to say . . .
Uh, accordions rock!
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WinslowYerxa
224 posts
Apr 06, 2012
12:30 PM
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Accordions DO rock! (they're just expensive . . .)
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VOTE Winslow Yerxa for SPAH president, with L J Atkison for vice president
Winslow for SPAH President (Facebook)
Winslow4prez (Youtube)
Chair, SPAH entertainment committee
Chair, SPAH awards committee
Member, SPAH convention planning committee
Staff, SPAH Convention event operation
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