I hear folks talking a lot about stamping out a truly original voice when playing the harmonica...
Does anyone know the actual odds of that happening for a player of the harmonica? Obtaining a harmonica voice that makes a significant contribution to harmonica music.
What are the odds? Does one have a better chance at hitting the lotto, then being an original harmonica player that other players truly respect as SPECIAL?
Last Edited by on Mar 28, 2012 3:30 PM
It isn't really that difficult to find your own voice on the harmonica as long as you don't lock your mind set into a teeny tiny box.
Some go for the traditional sound and start to craft their own ideas out of bits and pieces of other's - for instance, Mark Hummel has an endless source of unique ideas and has a tone/sound like the traditional blues guys. Paul deLay and Carlos del Junco have unique tone and original ideas (I think it helps to have "del" in the middle of your name, though). Dennis Gruenling rocks with traditional tone, can nail an authentic Little Walter note for note and then take it in his own unique direction.
There is no clear cut path. Some immerse themselves in the classic ODBGs, some don't listen to harmonica but immerse themselves in other instruments/artists.
Perhaps it is kinda an inward journey one takes to find oneself that is reflected through the instrument they play. ---------- The Iceman
There's a difference between having an original voice and becoming famous. Most of the best players do indeed have a sound of their own, but the number of famous harmonica players should not dictate the "odds" as you describe them.
In my opinion, the first key to the original voice is a conscious effort to CREATE said voice. Granted, nobody really wants to hear "originally awful" so it stands to reason that a certain amount of competency is required (of course).
As one sets out on one's harmonica journey, one can and should try different things, push one's comfort zones, and really think about letting one's own emotion or brain or soul, or whatever you want to call it, come out through the harmonica.
The pursuit of perfect mimicry, while useful as a tool, can sometimes fall directly at odds with the quest for one's own voice. The aspiring harp player has to recognize that there exists, and then has to FIND the line between learning from the greats and trying to musically "BE" somebody else.
It's not easy if you've gone too far down the "It all has to sound just like so-and-so road. However, if you truly want and work for the individual voice, then you will develop one.
It's your journey, man. Don't worry about odds, or talk yourself out of anything.
Here's a way of answering your question: the three-second test. Part of what makes for an original voice is a couple of identifying licks that could have come from nobody else except the original--or his imitators. Cotton has a handful of these. Jason has a way of hitting the 6 ob, bending it slightly up, letting it back down, and then moving onto other notes that is, I think, HIS thing. (Iceman will correct me if I'm wrong, I hope.) Kim Wilson has a way of hitting big octaves at unusual points in a solo and then holding them for unusual (nonstandard, non-obvious) durations. Paul Delay has a f--king huge trickbag of licks that he invented--lots of blow arpeggios in 2nd position and unexpected leaps that instantly identify him. Sugar Blue has several similar licks that he came up with independently of Delay, but his whole approach is instantly identifiable. Big Walter had a particular combination of big tone and smack-hard attack. Sonny Terry has a sound, pure and simple, that make him virtually always identifiable within a few seconds. (I challenge anybody here to give us a link for a Sonny Terry recording where it's not clear within a few second that it's Sonny Terry.)
I've found--and I suspect that Iceman will confirm--that 95% of players who've been playing for a year sound pretty much alike. They're basically in a group, with some modest outliers. Then there are a few who are technically quite a bit better, and there are a few, for some reason, who just have a SOUND. They have the beginnings of something interesting, individuated, and distinctive. It may be because they're listening differently, or not listening at all to other players. I really don't know what it is. (It's clear that some originality in harp players comes from the fact that they play other instruments: Howard Levy plays incredible jazz piano; Butterfield played flute; Magic Dick played sax; I play funk rhythm guitar and electric blues guitar.) I've heard and taught hundreds of players at this level over the years, and I'm generalizing from all that experience.
I didn't deliberately make a decision, early on, to try and individuate my sound. In fact, during my active studenty days, I tried to sound like each player whose record--and I mean record--I was listening to and learning from. I was a copyist. I was a ventriloquist. That's what good students do. Dennis tabbed out every solo George Harmonica Smith ever played--or at least that's what he said he was doing, and frankly, I believe him.
I also saw every good harp player who came through NYC between 1985 and 2000. I went out to live shows a lot. I had my mind blown by a succession of live shows: Magic Dick and James Cotton when I was 17 (1975), but then Paul Butterfield, Carey Bell, William Clarke, Magic Dick again, Nat Riddles, Rod Piazza (yes, only a fool would see him live and think, "I can swing harder than THAT guy"), Paul Delay (incredibly original voice), Junior Wells (minimalist master and great showman), James Harman, James Cotton (again), Steve Guyger (saw him at Dan Lynch one night and said "Shit! He can really play!"), Kim Wilson, Paul Oscher (as a one-man band)....and, most notably, a small white guy with thinning blondish hair who was playing with Jimmy Rogers and who got an absolutely crazy big raw overdrive sound out of a solid state PA head that he was using as his harp amp, played through a closed-back Fender cabinet. Mark Hummel didn't do as much for me, although his technical gifts were plain and he swung very hard; I wasn't into Rick Estrin's showmanship back then and didn't hear the quite distinctive tone and yelping sound that I hear now. (We're allowed to develop as listeners, even later in life.)
At a certain point, even as I was having my mind blown, I was aware that none of these players was overblowing and that I could hear pretty much everything they did. That wasn't true for their chromatic playing, but it was true for 97% of their diatonic playing. (The 3% was Paul Delay and, to a lesser extent, Kim Wilson.) So the overblows became a measure for me of individuality and modernity. This should surprise nobody who has been reading my posts here for the past five years.
The other thing was, I kept getting hammered by older black men up in Harlem who would put their hand on my arm or around my shoulder and, far from saying, "Get the hell out of Harlem, white boy!," would say, "You can blow. Now make sure what you play is YOU. Don't you try to sound like nobody else! How can you! You're YOU!" Again and again, that is the lesson that they pounded into me. And that was Sterling's one huge lesson. "Be yourself!"
It's a good lesson. It freed me, in a weird way, to trust my instinct about swerving AWAY from my black (and white) influences and towards something a little different. For many white blues players, there's something dangerous, almost illegitimate, about swerving away from your black influences. If you do that, will you be playing real blues, or some whitened version of the blues? After all, it's not hard to find white guys who don't play the blues very well! Who wants to be one of those? Better to replicate the masters, better to stick close to the mold. That guarantees--or at least firms up, so to speak--one's authenticity.
But of course it doesn't, really. The "black" approach, such as it is--or at least as it was pounded into me--was about black guys who didn't worry about their blackness--that was a given, duh!--but worried much more, as musicians, about distinguishing themselves from the pack. That's just how it was. It was assumed that you'd put in enough time to become a competent professional. Then what? Next! You needed to find that thing that people could hear on the radio; the thing that made people come to the live show because ONLY you had it, and you had it so richly and dynamically that people just had to have it.
I can't pretend to have gotten that, but I'm quite sure that Sterling had it, and I know that it's worth trying for. There was only one Stevie Ray Vaughan. I've seen lots of guys who wear the hat, play the Strat, go through the moves, but they're just wannabes. There was only one Little Walter. When I saw Watermelon Slim in Boston in 1989 or 1990, he was the single most dangerously intense player I have EVER seen on stage, bar none. He's nothing like that now--or at least he wasn't when I saw him live a a few years back. He's completely mellowed--with a great deal of individuality in his singing and show, I might add. But back then, he was literally frightening. I've heard that Big Walter and especially Howlin' Wolf were like that. Watermelon Slim was crazy-intense. I've never heard a guy do such things to high notes. Remember, I was Satan's sideman at that point! Trust what I'm saying. There was nothing smooth about him. He was raw, real, and scary. I know the blues when I hear it and see it. When you're standing onstage next to the real thing, it's unforgettable. Stevie Ray clearly had that. Albert Collins had that.
Individuality in an instrumentalist comes from many places. It comes from having a song in you, spending time listening to it, and putting in the hard time required in order to develop the technique to get it out. It requires mastering a tradition, or several traditions, and then being willing to explore forgotten chapters of the tradition and/or recombine parts of the tradition with other parts in unique ways that are driven by a need to do that. Individuality in a black musical context is always in dialogue with a tradition, which is to say a collective. You have to know the tradition deeply in order to signify intelligibly on it. In "Down at the Juke," when Jason switches at the beginning of the second chorus from one harp (an Eb, I think) to a second harp one octave lower, I believe he's signifying on Dennis: saying "low harps? No problem." That's what some of us do. If you listen to my solo on "Big Boss Man," the first track on the Satan & Adam album BACK IN THE GAME, I'm very much playing in Kim Wilson style that I learned from "Learn to Treat Me Right," which Kim, in turn, appropriated from Little Walter' sideman playing on Jimmy Rodgers's CHICAGO BOUND. At one point in my solo, though, I through in a swooping overblow riff that neither player every played. That distinguishes me from them. Either Kim can't play that riff, or he chooses not to. (I suspect he could play it if he wanted to.) It doesn't matter. The fact is, he DOESN'T play it. It's my riff. I know where my stuff comes from, because I've studied the tradition, but I know how to throw something in that can only come from me.
At some point down the line, it's possible that there will be players running around trying to sound like Adam Gussow, all of them whipping off that riff. That's fine--as long as they're in their student phase. Heck, I encouraged that sort of craven copying in the "Throwdown" competition! But really I'm just trying to say "Throw something new into your mix!" That's all. It's not about me. It's about keeping the music fresh, by any means necessary.
Last Edited by on Mar 28, 2012 6:30 PM
12gage "The pursuit of perfect mimicry, while useful as a tool, can sometimes fall directly at odds with the quest for one's own voice." ---------- Yes. Soundbite effective conveyance of concept.
I will steal this one but would edit it like so:
"The pursuit of perfect mimicry, while useful as a tool, falls directly at odds with the quest for one's own voice." The Iceman
@kudzurunner - I have been in a music slump for quite some time, trying to deal with tragedies & etc. - and have picked up my harps again, trying to figure out how to take it to the "next level." The big question - "Who am I?" - never really came up. I'm an intermediate player, trying to get better, and copying what I hear & what I like is getting me back in. Your very thoughtful response - right there - says it all. That is exactly why I read this forum. It is a lesson we all need to hear, but is hard to come by. Because when it comes down to it, it is up to each of us to listen & play enough until we hear ourselves coming through - acknowledge the influences - but play enough to where we can feel free to let go and see what comes out. It's both hard work and very liberating. My best playing has been when I have quit worrying about whether I was playing something "right" and let myself be transported into some other dimension with the music.
A few years ago, I was at a guitar workshop w/John D. Holman, a humble, kind, soft-spoken, very talented musician of the Piedmont blues style. One of the students asked him how he transitioned from one complicated chord to another, and his response was, "Son, I don't read music. I just take a little of this and a little of that, and then I make it my own."
There's only a handful of people that I can hear them play like 10 notes and know exactly who it is. For the most part, these guys didn't devote a lot of time trying to sound like other harmonica players. Jason comes to mind as an exception, he spent a LOT of time studying Pat Ramsey and others, but then he went out and created his own voice. However you do it, the point where you stop trying to sound like others and try to sound like yourself is when you develop that voice. There is nothing wrong with studying what others have done as long as you use that as a foundation to build your own voice upon. Howard Levy is obviously one, he just went out and did his own thing. Another that comes to mind is the late Igor Flach, who prolly spent more time studying opera singers than he did other harp players. Igor grew up behind the Iron curtain and he didn't have as much exposure to a wide range of harp playing as we have now with the Internet, or even like they did in the Free World back in those days. I think the lack of exposure to the wide world of blues players helped him create his voice. Maybe there wasn't a lot of blues harpists, but there was a heck of a lot of opera behind the Iron Curtain, they'd even take busloads from the factories to the 5 bazillion opera houses they had in East Germany. So, he had a different musical experience. It gave him a different voice. A large part of his voice is his vibratto, which I think is a unique voice of his. He learned that vibratto by studying opera players specifically. He said once that when he played harmonica, he was singing opera without vocal chords. There's better examples of his vibrato, but one thing I'd like to show in this clip are the wide jumps he does about 40 seconds in. That's something specifically that he's taken from opera.
Hey Dave! I was about to say "Igor Flach" when I read the OP, but ya beat me to it! I was actually looking up his few YT vids again last night. I also came across a short clip of him playing his song "One step ahead of the blues" with bluesrudi. Now THAT is a unique harmonica voice. You KNOW it's Igor right away!
Shame his music isn't available over here in the states (at least not as I was able to find). I'd love to have a "best of Igor Flach" album in the collection!
BTW, great post Adam! There's a huge amount in there to take away and ponder over! ---------- == I S A A C ==
One important and oft-overlooked way of getting your own sound is writing your own songs. If you do that, then you are starting off with a base flavor that is inherently you (obviously, you can write a derivative song, but that's another matter). Than, you tailor your harp playing to the songs that you write. That way, your phrasing and riffs become uniquely 'you.' I happen to believe that voice on an instrument is as much a matter of context than anything else, so you may as well create your own context.
Thoughts? ---------- Check out my music at http://bmeyerson11.bandcamp.com/
I talked to Ronnie Shellist about this at SPAH. He was nice enough to check out my youtube stuff while he was at SPAH. He said your really different. I said "the road lest traveled". I then said, "but if you don't copy and make your own style you could suck". LOL The harp comes in at around 1:16
---------- Emile "Diggs" D'Amico a Legend In His Own Mind How you doin'
Last Edited by on Mar 29, 2012 1:41 AM
Ronnie is an excellent example of a guy who has created an original voice while working more or less within an established tradition. I don't know if he had this voice when he started posting videos on YT in 2006, but six years later he has it. It's not just about licks, although it's partly about that--about having a handful of identifiable things you do that nobody else does. He played me a number of tracks off his new album when I stayed with him during our Boulder clinic, and it was enlightening, as was seeing him at work with his band, when he was majorly in his comfort zone.
I didn't know where Flach's originality came from, but I'm glad to know!
Actually, I left out one place where a harmonica player can go for new ideas and more individuation: sax players. I spent a lot of time listening to and copying sax players whose sounds and melodic motifs grabbed me. Stanley Turrentine, Hank Crawford, Houston Person, Maceo Parker. I couldn't begin to play the actual note streams they played, at least when they moved towards jazz, but the way they sped up and slowed down those streams could be mimicked on harp, the way they swung, and they edges they put on particular notes--the vocalizations. When they stayed close to blues, they CAN be copied, and what you come home with doesn't sound like standard blues harp licks.
Here's Turrentine playing "Sugar" live. Listen to the stretch at 2:00 - 2:10. A harp player can steal some stuff in there:
Same thing here with Crawford. He's more in a straight blues direction much of the time.
Listen to this clip from 1:00 on. These licks are totally stealable by a harp player. The great thing about copying sax players is that no matter HOW closely you copy them, you'll never sound like any of the classic harp players. You'll just sound like an unusually blues harp player. And unless you spill the beans, nobody will know why. :)
I searched YT for "houston person blues" and came on this little live gem. Listen to the beginning of his solo at around 1:25. (Start before that). The economy of his initial approach. This is great teaching material for blues harmonica players:
I found the following, looking for Maceo Parker vids. Check out the head! That is begging to be translated to harp, for those of us with funk leanings. There's nothing in the head that an intermediate player shouldn't be able to work out. It's a funk blues. I just might do it on my next album:
i for one have never thought about re-inventing the wheel. i'd rather just drive something with good wheels on it and make it go like hell. there are a lot of technical things i don't do, or know i'm doing, when i play harp. my total goal has always been to get the best tone and do the best variety on a given part that i can. it's been said that there is nothing new under the sun. every lyric and every musical verse has been done some way or another. what has NOT been done necessarily is each of our own individual take on lyrics and musical lines. bent notes, overblows, tb, lp, custom harps, particular mic and amp, all the tricks of playing harp and of inflecting voice a certain way, these are tools to express ourselves. these tools are not the expression itself but a means of going to a particular place in a given moment. at this stage of the game, for me, i doubt i'll ever backtrack and learn scales and ob's and the finer points and minutiae of playing harmonica. my vocal style has been set for a long time and it brings results. i don't even know if i have a "unique voice", maybe more of a "unique overall presence" on stage. people sometimes have a hard time associating what they're hearing with what they're seeing. my wife calls me clark kent vs super harp sometimes, to which i sometimes agree. a change takes place when circumstances are just so. i sort of transform from a guy sitting at a table with a coffee or ice water to a fearsome tone monster singing some wild stuff on stage and leading a band nearly over the precipice.
unique voice? i don't know. i DO know we can all have our OWN voice. ---------- http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
I suggest playing lots of musical styles and trying to play them at an advanced level. Then when you play blues, ideas from the other styles will arrive.
I also suggest to practice nonattachment. One of the recurring themes I see with students is the desire to sound good and/or the fear of sounding bad. They are attached to sounding good. When they release that attachment, they start coming up with unique things. Sometimes it sounds bad, sometimes good. Then if they choose to critique what they like and only play that publicly, they have a good sounding unique style. Personally, I prefer to practice nonattachment during performance. I may sound like crap, but it enables me to create instead of regurgitate my own best work. It is all about priorities. I think creating in the moment is more important than sounding good.
You're right, jbone. There's finally only one question: What's your thing? What's YOUR thing? If you're a stage performer--and not every blues harmonica player is; some just want to play for themselves--then there are all sorts of ways, apart from harmonica playing per se, that harmonica players can manifest their "thing." But it's an important showbiz question: What's your thing? What do you do that makes you special/different/important? What do you do that will surprise and please people when they first catch your show and that will leave them wanting to come back the next time, with their friends?
Nobody gets out of here alive, so it's a good idea to figure out why we were put here (so to speak), in musical terms, before we go. Just asking the question is a great way to start the process of intuiting an answer.
I am at the point in my life where I don't care anymore if people think I have an original sound or not. My music makes me feel good, I am able to express what is in me without thought, I don't have any pressures to conform to anything to get me somewhere, and it feels fresh everytime I play. That is all I could ever wish for. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
I don't know why people worry about this kinda stuff. Walter & others have the idea: you gotta be yourself and don't succomb to jumping into the "male pecking order" melee. I've been playin' harp for 45 years and most of you hard-workin' young guys can probably play circles around me, but I've always enjoyed it and played plenty of gigs. If you spend your entire life wishing you were something or somebody else, then your problem is that you're not willing to do the work, or you're not talented enough (period), or you just can't accept yourself. Each individual is so valuable that if you can share the best parts of yourself with your listeners, and pay attention to your craft, it'll come across. Just be thankful that people enjoy hearing you, even if they're not willing to pay $30 for the privelege. Play the damn thing.. you'll get your voice, even if it sounds alot like somebody else's.
Last Edited by on Mar 29, 2012 12:02 PM
Thanks Adam, & please don't get me wrong: I think it's natural to hear somebody else's tone, or licks, and think it sounds great & try to reproduce it; there's alot to be gained personally from the effort it takes, and you incorporate snippets of all those things into your playing. But, at some point, the quest to elevate yourself-- or to be elevated above somebody else is fruitless, especially if you want to be free to express the part of yourself that truly is unique. Nobody else can be you, and that's a helluva valuable thing. Some people just have unique voices, like Lyle Lovett,Merle Haggard,Barbra Streisand, etc. The rest of us are more normal.
I dont understand where some people have a hard time being them selves,Ive known a couple guitar players that could play any song note for note as long as it wasnt there song,And they played way better than I can amagine myself playing,I have no progrem being myself,or sounding original,I have trouble trying to learn to sound good or even just better at being myself,And that includes the desire to want to be happy with myself and also I would like to be able to play for other peoples enjoyment,at being myself,And would like to be able to play more like some other people to possible achieve that,but thats the tricky part for me,I listen to and enjoy all kinds of music,but find it hard to focus on a certain aspect of the music I enjoy,Ive followed different lessons plans past couple of years and I can do some intermediate celtic stuff,but I dont count that much cause I can play it note for note,but the songs Ive learned , dont have any nice embellishments for them yet,so untill then I consider them generic.My goal here last year or so from the advise of BBQ Bob on trying to learn,struture as in chorus forms in my playing,And David Barret has a great study at his school for the chorus forms,Ive been trying to learn some basic licks and trying to work them into forms like AAA or AAB ect or stuff like that,I feel like a better understanding of some more licks and applying them in a form will help,And Walter Tore allways gives me hope to just be myself and sometimes just play and forget the lessons.;-) ---------- Hobostubs
The way I see it, you're going to play what you love, otherwise why play? Some people who don't even try to will develop unique voices along the way, others who really want to won't. I remember seeing an interview with Rod Piazza somewhere on youtube and he said something along the lines of his style just being a combination of Little Walter and George Smith. I think Rod has a unique sound, but all he was really trying to do when he developed that sound was copy the style of others.
Also, I think one man that's often overlooked with one of the most original voices in modern blues harmonica is Billy Gibson.
In reality most don't want their own voice. It is a lonely road full of disapointments and excommunication. One has to be driven enough to overcome this basic human need-to fit in. The music scene touts new voices that are usually rehashes of what preceeded them that were finacial hits. One also has to be willing to say yes more than no to things about their music from outside sources. Stars don't exist that haven't done this. For me this makes me wonder who they would be if they said no to such things. I live a solitary musical journey. It is lonely and I am shunned by the general music scenes but boy oh boy do I get to live a life of my dreams! I hold no ill feelings about this. It is just the way things are for this point in our culture. I would quit if I had to do music like most do. No knock on it. I love my albums by others but as a player I would rather die in obscurity than make it with the conventional approach to music. I am continually inspired to keep exploring spontaneous music and the art of recording. These thinga and playing live to people keep me well nourished in the soul. Life is very short. Why not live it BIG! Declare yourself a star in your soul and really mean it. This is not about ego, but about believing what is in you is completely unique to you. That is all it takes. This also means you dig your sound more than anyone elses. Not because you are technically more versed than everyone, but because it simpley feels better to play your music than listening to others. I love to listen to my favorites but when the urge to make music hits, which is most all my waking hours, I have to go with it. Walter
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
'originality' and 'significant contribution' are two different things. Related somewhat but different.
I have an ivdividual voice - stongly influenced by everyone I've listened to or played with- but it's mine. Sadly, that doesn't mean I'll make a 'significant contribution'.
Digg's - I really liked the piece you posted - I'll add a snippet of my own from last Saturday's gig - I'm certainly not tring to copy anyone - just expressing myself in this bit of ensemble playing. Not really a lead or a 'comp' - just 'mixing it up' with the guys. - I use the pog sparingly but I think it works in this context.
Being 'original' strictly in the Blues context may be harder than in other genre's where interpretaion of melody leaves a lot of room for creativity and self expression. It is for me anyway. There are an awful lot of recycled 'licks' used in Blues.
If we aren't playing to express ouselves what are we doing? Blues lick's juke box ? tribute band ? I don't get it.
I have two words if we're in search of today's original voices on harmonica: Hakan Ehn.
As Dennis did with low harps, Hakan came along and did something new. He used all the modern technology, overblows, things I can't even name, harp key changes in mid-beat, to create a heavy blues style based on 70s hard rock by Deep Purple and others. Talk about meeting the 3-second test! Yes, it's all about the effects, but then again, it's about the creative imagination. And he has some badass chops.
Please listen to the entire third video if you do nothing else. At 2:54 he suddenly goes off on a wild solo. Hakan is a modern master and pioneer. He's most definitely got his "thing." He owns it.
Even if you suck and not very original or even if your are great a very orginal you contribute ,because your a life force,wait 90 years or less when your dead,then you no longer contribute,and at that point it really dosnt matter if you was Little Walter ,Or a Big Nobody,Cause Even to remebered is Nothign to a dead man life is to short to worry about such things to hard ---------- Hobostubs
sorry to be negativce there for a second just I believe everybody contributes something,For example when I play music with my 9 year old niece there aint nothing else in the world matters.Everyone contributes one way or another. ---------- Hobostubs
Nice Bone Dog sounds like your moving into a Santana sound there. Santana can work great on the harp. I used to solos on Santana tunes When I played in the Juan Avila band. They were also known as the All Starr Rancheros LOL ---------- Emile "Diggs" D'Amico a Legend In His Own Mind How you doin'
@ Diggs - I am as, or more influenced by guitar players like Santana and Jerry Garcia as I am by harmonica players. Also sax players, Jazz, country, gospel, Jewish liturgical (that's some different ethnic Blues right there) & Klezmer, Arabic, acid rock, Reggae, Latin etc. - it's all 'in me' via exposure and listening - if not direct practicing.
There are blues 'standards' where I will purposely 'quote' a bit of a LW, Jimmy Reed or whomever - but that's as far as I care to 'try and sound like' anyone else.
@Michael Rubin - Sound like a very original approach to a rockier more agressive style of playing to me. I like it more than Hakan Ehn's. ----------
yea it sounded alot like Rush to me exspecially the drums,I used to love Rush Havent gave them a listen in awhile,but it sounded great ---------- Hobostubs
Even the most original of players, regardless of genre, traditional or not, ALL have varying influences and somewhere in their playing, if you listen VERY CAREFULLY, you can hear just about everybody who has ever influenced them in some way or another, and many of the best players I've seen or listened to over the years often have a FAR wider breadth of things they've paid attention to that the average player/fan often NEVER bothers to listen to at all, plus they've often have adapted things from other instruments that the average player is often REFUSING to listen to.
For someone who takes a more traditional approach to things, it's easy to pidgeon hole them as one who is going to do it like those they have listened to note for note and not do anything to make it their own in some way or basically acting like the so called "museum head." Granted, there most certainly are players who play their idols, regardless of being "modern" or tradtional, who will do EVERYTHING note for note, but there are a lot who do not, but if asked to, they most certainly CAN do it.
I come from a more traditional approach to blues, but I do listen to a lot of different things, regardless of genre, be it blues to jazz to rock to rap/hiphop, latino, etc., and the one thing you often don't find a lot of players not really paying enough attention to is the groove and how to make those things from other genres, etc., work within confines of a different genre, yet put it within the groove so that it properly fits and never sounds out of place.
LW took tons of stuff from horn players, especially big band jazz and jump blues sax players, which I also do myself. I also listen to guitars, keyboards, vibes, and many other instruments, and mess with the way they phrase, and work on making it work for the harmonica so that it sounds like it BELONGS there naturally, but that means doing tons of homework, not being afraid to fall flat on my face in the process, and that's something the average player is often too scared s**t to do out of fear of being ridiculed.
After awhile, I wound up being able to give people a taste of some of my heroes without sounding like an absolute note for note copy cat, but it takes TONS of work and really good listening skills to accomplish that, both of which can be developed.
Being original in ANY context is not as easy as you think, regardless of the genre or the instrument and I can find plenty of wannabee types in just about every instrument or genre you can name.
Like everything else, it takes HARD WORK and not being afraid to fail in the process. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
I think a lot of it has to with how a player WANTS to sound. Does the player believe something he heard on a recording is the coolest thing he could play, or does the player hear something in his head he thinks would sound cool coming out of his instrument? Each requires a different approach.
Of course an original approach may well be based on an amalgamation of a lot of other things the player has already heard. Other players don't hear any music in their head that's not something they've heard someone else play so they simply imitate. Not all players (not even all very good players) have imagination. Technical skill on the instrument and creative musical imagination are not the same thing.
So, I think it all depends on what the player is capable of doing and how the player WANTS to sound.
All the musicians I gig with regularly are religious about not playing anything "just like the record." Our attitude is that some one else has already done that, so what's the point in just copying something that's already been done? We give just about everything a fresh interpretation. Other successful bands pride themselves on how closely the are able to copy well known recordings. Both approaches present challenges, but in the final analysis it comes down to how the musicians WANT to sound.
Ya wanna sound like you or do you wanna sound like, say, Little Walter? Before you answer, keep in mind that you will most likely never play Little Walter as well as Little Walter. But will anyone want to listen to you if you sound like you?
in a folk music of blues assimilation is the way they learned licks [words of the language] and when they knew how to talk they begun to sing it...the first opening lick on "Juke", Little Walter picked up off of Charlie parker... the hottest horn man in 1951.
I like Waltertore's sentence "be yourself" but it needs to have a meaning. I assume I understand what you mean, but it's also much easier to speech so for somebody who has had the life you had, which has been obviously rather eventful. I read you lived in Belgium, but I doubt it could have been memorable; on the opposite, you are still alive despite all what happened to you, that's the thing. Now many events have inspired you and you had first to learn some rules to play guitar or make music before beeing able to simply technically transpose your feelings: it didn't come by fingers' snap. So to achieve what you did ("beeing yourself in playing") it would be more articulate to precise "but it needs a rather wide body of skills". Beeing myself and play like you? I don't believe in miracles.
@coleman: Or else he picked it up from Snooky Pryor's "Snooky and Moody's Boogie." There's been a longstanding debate about that opening riff, as you may know. Wikipedia has the following in the entry for Pryor:
Pryor recorded some of the first postwar Chicago blues records in 1948,[1] including "Telephone Blues" and "Snooky & Moody's Boogie" with guitarist Moody Jones, and "Stockyard Blues" and "Keep What You Got" with singer/guitarist Floyd Jones. "Snooky & Moody's Boogie" is of considerable historical significance: Pryor claimed that harmonica ace Little Walter directly copied the signature riff of Pryor's song into the opening eight bars of his own blues harmonica instrumental, "Juke," an R&B hit in 1952.[3]
Last Edited by on Mar 30, 2012 2:25 PM
laurent2015: I believe everyone has a meaningful life if they are following thier heart and dreams. Belguim was a wonderful place to live. I have many great memories from there. I was treated like an artist there vs. a bum here in the states. I use to hang out with Roland the bluesman there and Roland the ex- olympic boxer. TT Fingers was another character there and Sharif Dean (Spelling???) who had many platinum hits were also good friends while I lived there. Sharif came to all my gigs in brussels. He told me he loved my voice. He was all about singing. I had no idea he had so many big hits until someone told me. I thought he was just another passionte music lover. His voice went on him and he said he couldn't sing anymore and sang through hearing me sing. He was a very intense and passionate man. We spent many a night in brussels cafes talking about life and music. One more was Front 242. Guys that programed music and I think the first to do it.
I taught myself how to play all the instruments I play. Now I am teaching myself how to make decent recordings. I just kept at it and dedicated my life to it. No kids, career, home, health insurance, just music. I went wherever it lead me. I went to Norway from California on a promise from a musician there to open a tour for his band. It fell through and we ended up broke in Brussels. I do find most musicians want it all but are not willing to give it all up for it. To find your own sound you have to follow the yellow brick road wherever it calls you. That often means leaving security, family, friends, career, etc. Those old blues guys didn't get their sounds staying in a safety zone. I find it confusing why more don't blindly follow their dreams because all we have to look forward to is death. So why not follow the dream? Walter
WOW! I looked up shariff dean on the net and found some of his music on youtube. I never did hear him really sing. His voice was shot and he sounded like howling wolf and was living in a cold water flat. He didn't even have any of his records. I came upon a large envelope of forgotten photos of my musical journey and his was there.
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
@Waltertore: thanks for this lighting. We likely have known the same living city, long years ago, called Brussels. BTW, 2000 little cafés have closed their doors in 2011 because of general forbidding to smoke in; they were however considered like a social fabric. Bit by bit, the city's turning into a desert...at least in the night. Not funny.
laurent2015: That is too bad about all the cafes closing. I remember each corner had 2. I use to play CHez gaston la gaffe cafe alot and the ancience belgige, the brussels jazz club (toots thielman came to several of my gigs there), montana mikes, and this place, whose name I can't remember. It was a nice cafe that had a piano in it. Pauls Bierdrome was another great place to play. Paul had a photo album of blues and jazz guys that played his club going back to post WW2. It was a whos who from Louis armstrong to t bone walker.... He had SBWll passport photo. Sonny BOy played his club and wanted a pistol. Pauls said give him a picture and he would give him a gun. SB tore the passport photo page off and gave it to him. He was a wild character with his bald head, mutton chops, and decades of promoting live music. One night while playing there people were talking during our performance. Paul got up onstage, took a mic and jammed it in the main PA speaker. It howled feedback and he stood there like Mussolini, staring at the group making all the noise. He then pulled the mic out after about a minute of feedback, cursed them out, and told them to shut up and listen or get out of his club. Here I am with TT Fingers and his wife Anita. Do you remember Guy Van Esesbeek of the Shy Guys blues band? I became good freinds with him. I recorded an lp in Studio Des as well. Walter
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Like most of the threads on this forum, a really interesting and informative discussion.
I played some harp as a kid, pursued other interests for decades, then came back to music and harmonica around 10 or 11 years ago in order to take it up more in depth.
I actually told myself when I started again, that I would go as far as the journey would take me, and that I would never take it SO seriously as to hamstring myself.
I also reminded myself that there would always be others way better at this than me, but I would be in it for the joy and love of being able to learn some music, and make music with others, hopefully entertaining some kind of audience.
I do believe in a good technical grounding and have tried to develop such skills. This, of course, means I have worked to reproduce sounds made by other players, and have incorporated consciously or unconsciously their licks or portions of their licks and synthesized all this however I could.
Although not a pro player, I am a local musician, playing as a sideman in a few different configurations at local venues for $$, and mostly I am concerned with playing with a character that fits the style of music, and in a way that hopefully supports whatever tune is being performed.
No one tells me how to play, but my intention is to keep my fellow musicians as well as the audience...interested, but not by becoming the center of attention, unless I am playing a lead.
Unless something changes, I figure I'm in this for the long haul. Of course, along the way of learning, and practice, and playing with others and perfecting the craft, and performing, I hope to inspire a few others in the way I have been inspired. All I can do is continue, and hope that my voice emerges somewhere along the way.
Walter, I'm afraid to tell you this is the past of Brussels, and likely for good. I've known the places you mentionned, and also --maybe you played there-- "The Travers".
@Robbert, for so far I can say, that's a good evolving and your conclusion is among the finest.
Laurent2015: Brussels is not unlike most cities today. Live music is dying more each year. I remember austin had 100 clubs to play and I did over 30 gigs a month there. SF and the north bay was so alive I did almost 30 gigs a month in the north bay alone and then a bunch in the SF area with the old blues guys. NYC had so much live music I couldn't get to sleep most of the week. When I played beale street albert king was in the dive next door. Very sad to see how dead things are today. Yes I played le travers. It was a small theater like club right? I have a poster from a gig I did there. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Yes it was so small that the bar seemed huge, thus attractive!!! I heard there and for the first time Toots Thielemans playing with an outstanding bass player (Michel Hazegiorgou) and european famous (jazz) drummer Bruno Castelluci. These are good memories, and nobody can rip them off, fortunately...
