HawkeyeKane
798 posts
Mar 20, 2012
12:33 PM
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In my eyes, it's a law of harp nature that playing on stage with a louder band will always lead to volume-battle issues. I use my amp as my monitor, right? It's lined into the PA, but we don't add it into the PA monitors very much for risk of heavy feedback. But this is troublesome as well, isn't boys? You're playing right next to the guitarist or the bassist and their 50+ watts are drowning your onstage volume to the point where you can't hear yourself playing, and you don't know whether you bended or slid far enough on that one lick, etc. On top of that, you have another bandmate close to your own amp complaining that yours is too loud to HIS ears and wants you to turn down.
Earplugs can be one way to go. I've often plugged one ear in environments where the rest of the band proved to much for me to overcome in terms of hearing my own notes, both on harp and what I'm singing.
I remember reading not long ago that Pete Townshend, at the time seriously considering ending The Who altogether due to his tinnitus, had been introduced to a new in-ear monitor system that Neil Young had gotten him hooked on. Apparently it's been a success for him to some degree because The Who are still kickin'.
But I have to wonder...might this be a viable solution for harp players who have trouble maintaining their own self-audibility onstage? Drummers and keyboardists use headphones after all. Mightn't it work for us with earbuds?
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Hawkeye Kane
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HarpNinja
2274 posts
Mar 20, 2012
12:38 PM
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It would work, but it is often like listening to the music through cans (headphones).
Generally, the biggest downsides are:
Cost of in-ears and gear related to using them
Needing to create a complete mix of the band for monitoring, which almost always involves more gear than at hand
Difficulties setting up when using house PA's
Like anything else, the cheaper you go, the less control over the tone and mix. I thought about getting them for my cover band, but realized that controlling stage volume was easier and cheaper.
If you band doesn't use a PA currently to do the heavy lifting, than the likelihood of guys miking EVERYTHING up so it can be mixed and sent to a monitor out (in-ears) that you can readily adjust is slim. You can just monitor your harp, but it will be hard to hear the rest of the band.
***You can get great powered PA speakers to use as monitors for under $500. You can feed the lineout into the monitor and control your harp mix from there. Just feed the PA an out from the PA speaker.
I do this 100% of the time. I run my POD HD500 or HG2 lineout to the input of a QSC K10. It has an XLR out that works just like a DI. I send that to the board.
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
Last Edited by on Mar 20, 2012 12:41 PM
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Tuckster
992 posts
Mar 20, 2012
1:42 PM
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HarpNinga makes some good points. A good in-ear monitor is close to $500. Thanks to eharp, I bought a Behringer B205 spot monitor for $150. It mounts to a mic stand. I line out straight into it. Solved my problem of hearing myself with a loud band.
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MrVerylongusername
2297 posts
Mar 20, 2012
2:02 PM
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I sing lead vocals in an 8 piece band. We use three different mixes: vocals and harp, horns and quiet vocals and a complete front of house mix. We use trantec iem's and I would never back to using floor wedges. One thing I agree on is that it's not a cheap road to go down - especially as you really need to invest in pro earbuds, I use shure se115s and am looking to get a custom ear mold. They do take some getting used to and even with a full band mix available, I prefer to just have one earbud in. They are not at all complicated to set up.
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HawkeyeKane
799 posts
Mar 20, 2012
2:06 PM
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I've toyed with the idea of getting a small powered monitor speaker for myself to use near my mic stand. My main amp is my 'Zoo. Now, if I could put the amp's line out on a Y-jack or a DI with a hi-Z instrument out jack on it, would a stout powered computer speaker make a good personal monitor do you think?
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Hawkeye Kane
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timeistight
477 posts
Mar 20, 2012
3:59 PM
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"would a stout powered computer speaker make a good personal monitor do you think?"
No, I don't.
I think you're looking for workarounds to the problem that you are vastly underpowered compared to the other folks in your band. Unless you can convince your guitar player to trade his "50+ watt" amp in on a Champ, I think your best bet is to get a bigger amp. I'll quote Greg "Kalamazoo" Heumann from another thread:There's no question a Kalamazoo has awesome tone for harp - but it is still a 5-8W single 10" speaker amp. The only gigs I do with mine (and I don't have the luxury of counting on a sound guy) are small coffee shop/pizza joint gigs - i.e. with a band that can really control its volume. It is also great for recording, of course.
I still swear by "plenty of power and plenty of speaker" for uncontrolled settings like jams, or performing with my band in larger venues or outdoors.
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HawkeyeKane
801 posts
Mar 20, 2012
5:57 PM
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@timeistight
Yes, well...a larger more powerful amp is definitely an option that should be considered. Boy...I guess I haven't thought about having one in ...ohhhh...about ten whole minutes.
Obviously something with a 30 to 50 Watt tube output is a major item on my want-list. Always has been. Unfortunately, Im not going to have the means to fulfill that dream in the foreseeable future, or even the hopes of saving enough to buy one either.
Therefore, I'm looking at options to improve my situation that ARE attainable for me. Being on a minimal budget sucks in this racket, but I'm doing what I can with what I have.
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Hawkeye Kane
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timeistight
478 posts
Mar 20, 2012
6:33 PM
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Get the guitar player to downsize then. If both you and the guitar player are using tiny amps, the bass and drummer will have to dial it back.
But really, any decent in-ear monitor system is probably going to wind up costing lots more than a big amp would so how would that solve your problem?
Last Edited by on Mar 20, 2012 6:36 PM
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MrVerylongusername
2298 posts
Mar 20, 2012
6:38 PM
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If you don't need to move around too much you could try a hard wired IEM system using something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Pyle-Pro-PHA40-4-Channel-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B003M8NVFS/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_7 and a long lead for your ear buds. Setup the headphone amp close to you - maybe even mount on a mic stand (needs a wallwart power supply though) take a line from the zoo (or an aux send from the desk) and you're good. I did wonder about a honeytone headphone amp, but wasn't sure how well it would cope with line level.
*EDIT* This looks even better suited to the job:
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/MA400.aspx
Last Edited by on Mar 20, 2012 6:49 PM
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HawkeyeKane
802 posts
Mar 20, 2012
7:57 PM
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@timeistight
I understand where your reasoning is coming from. The in-ear setup would be too costly, and I see that. Which is why Tuckster's suggestion made me rethink my approach from in-ear to full fledged speaker instead.
As for trying to get any 40 year veteran rock and roll guitarist to downsize his rig, IMHO that's wishful thinking a majority of the time.
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Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by on Mar 20, 2012 7:59 PM
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Greg Heumann
1542 posts
Mar 20, 2012
8:24 PM
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All of the above. Another Major problem for IEM for harp players is easily demonstrated by putting a finger in one ear and tooting your harp when you're on stage with a screaming loud band - and you can hear yourself playing acoustically. Its one thing if you're a drummer, a bass player or a guitar player - and even a singer can get away with it - but when you play something like harp with anything in your ear, you will hear yourself - and you will no longer have any reasonable way of knowing how loud you are relative to the band. I have tried 'em. Can't get used to it.
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/Greg
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