Burke T, out of the Bay area, took a box of my tired old harps and sent me back a box today with some of mine revived/customized and some of his customized harps. All I can say is I am floored. It brought back the same feeling I had when in the 7th grade and my parents finally took me in for glasses. It turned out I was close to legally blind and when I walked out of that shop with my first pair of glasses on the world was in focus for the first time in my life. It was like this with these harps. I have been playing stock harps since the mid 70's and just plain got use to it as normal but I now realize, working with harps that stuck, buzzed, were hard to play, and the high end was useless on many keys there is a new world out there. To sum it up simply- I can flow so much easier with my entire sound. It is sort of jolting because I am programed for stuff to get stuck, out of wack. I don't know if anyone will hear any difference but I can. This is my first session with some of them. I used a hicksville MB in A, and Hicksville MB in G on these. Burk T is passionate about harps and I am glad to have met him. I often wonder why I stay on these forums and then I meet a guy like him, and many of you here, and it makes it all worth it. I TAKE BACK EVERYTHING I HAVE SAID TO DATE ON CUSTOMIZED HARPS. I was dead wrong about being able to get what I wanted out of stock harps since I blew one of these. But I am glad it has taken me this long to get one because my style is mine and now I can take it to new places! Walter
with the 1 man band never seen another dance like my Judy B Soon I was a highway man
just vocal and the harps
Burkee T let me see dizzy with hammers in my head I can't see the hard times are all gone walking
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
really happy for you Walter. Sounds full and rich with little subtleties. Enjoy! :) ---------- MBH Webbrain - a GUI guide to Adam's Youtube vids FerretCat Webbrain - Jason Ricci's vids (by hair colour!)
Hondas ride nice...Harleys/BMWs are a whole different driving experience. Same thing with harps in my opinion. Invest as much as you can in your harps. Quality and precision "fine tuning" really make the journey more enjoyable and opens the doors wide with possibilities and for progress which is what every new player needs. They last longer too. I say this sincerly but fact is when I am gigging now my box is full of 1847 classics. Out of the box they are real close to customs. Any they stay in tune forever.
Glad you got some great harps Walter. Custom harps make certain things easier to play. Interestingly I have been customising my own harps for quite a while now and love how well they play. I also own a few custom harps made by other people, which are great too. Yesterday though I got one of the newer Marine Band 1896 harps with the all tan coloured combs and "Hohner" stamped on the comb. Out of the box it is the best harp I have ever played. Way better than ANY custom harp I have ever tried. I didn't have to do a thing to it. I was completely floored by how well it plays. I'm going to be getting some more soon. Hopefully they'll all play as incredibly well as this one does.
Congrats on your epiphany, Walter! This calls for a movie metaphor. Up until about the 1:00 mark is Walter with stock -out-of-the-box harps-all braced up and hindered, then the mail comes, and his very first custom hits his lips...then it's on, baby. Only then does he realize that the rock hitting him in the head is a reality check('Hey, all those young MBH whippersnappers and their newfangled customfrillyfroufrou harmonicas with powder-coated cover plates and cherry-flavored unobtanium combs might just be on to something!'). Run, Walter, run!
Go Walter! I've got the last set Buddha shipped out, my good ole Harvey Harp, and a couple Todd Parrott set up for me. All are GMs and play much better than stock.
I don't doubt that an experienced pro like yourself would notice right away. The more advanced your skills the more difference a custom harp makes..IMHO
Walter, now you can see why I really like them. One thing to remember is that if you try harps from different customizers, they definitelty DO vary and some are clearly better than others. Customizers have helped to clearly change the game of manufacturers in a big way. One former Hohner employee defined the difference between custom and stock is that it's in the detail work and the kind of detail work that customizers do is generally far too expensive in terms of labor costs as well as far too time consuming for that to be done on a production line basis and that's the real reality of things.
Walter, before you start to gig with them for the next few weeks, shed with them at home first so you can get used to them and you will have to adjust your technique a bit and adjust to needing to use MUCH less breath force than you've already been using, and I know you're not a real hard player, breath force wise, but there is a bit of an adjustment period.
Instead of just trashing them when they get blown out, you just send them back to the customizer and get the reed replaced and the only thing that would be needed to be done is have the reed set up properly to the way you want the harp to play based on your playing style and that'll be the only reed that needs this done, wheras an entire harp or set of reed plates needs the entire thing done all over again, and so even tho the cost upfront is higher, the long term costs actually works out CONSIDERABLY cheaper and with good breath control it lasts for years and now the harp is no longer a throwaway, but a lifetime instrument like a horn or a guitar.
Once you get used to customs, you may not want to go back to stock ever again, but one thing that I've found is that once you refine your technique from using them, you actually wind up getting more out of a stock harp than you once did.
Kingley, the reasons those new MB's play so well are the profile they're using, the fully sealed combs, and more importantly, the slot tolerances are much thighter than they've ever been. My only complaint is that they didn't open the back covers like they did prior to WWII or even prior to the 80's and if they did that, they'd play far better than they do now just from a volume and projection standpoint alone. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
thanks everyone for the response, especially Bob for taking the time to write such an informative one. The main difference I find is I can go to any hole and it works like it should. I have had maybe a dozen or so out of the box over all these years that worked near as good and I hated it when they went flat because I knew it might be years before another came along as nice. I feel like a guy that has undergone tourture of some sort and everytime I go to blow a note part of me is ready to flinch - in like it sticks. That slight delay of having to work to get the hole to sound is part of my hard wiring by this point. I realized this when I started playing the customs. I know it will be a few hours of getting the sounds I want and it will be gone. I am excited about how I can mess with time more. On that song I posted that people added a harp track to, many said it was hard to follow even though it was as simple song. All my songs are simple but the timing is where I get into subtle stuff. I go for that over flash playing and these new harps are telling me new ideas are to be soon found. Probably most will not hear them but I sure will.
I play at Jim's harmonica college next weekend and will be ready. I hear you Bob about less breath. I had to put more into the stock ones mainly to get them open and working. I also got a custom wood comb special 20 in D, a ms blues harp, a MB Deluxe and MB that I sent in, and something else (can't remember now) in F. I am excited to get recording with them this weekend. I found being a speed king on the notes is a breeze. I don't find that kind of playing interesting but the option is there for short bursts on the high ends that was not there with my stock harps. I have learned to stop around the 6-7 hole on most every harp except the low tuned, a, and g. New horizions lie ahead! Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
walterharp: Overblowing? I doubt it. I don't like the chromatic sound much but what the hell, I might end up eating those words too. It is pretty easy to do that popper/ricci speed stuff with these harps :-) I am hoping at the W VA get together Jim has organized I can learn something of how to make stock harps play easier. The delta frosts play real easy but have a raspy sound compared to the MB but the MB's tend to be more hit than miss for easy playing out of the box. This has been the case for as long as I have played them. I never took a harp apart. If it stuck, I soaked it in water. If that didn't work, I threw it out. I was too busy trying to keep my calendar full and nobody was doing it back then that I knew of. I am not much of a gear head. My recordings are done by turning knobs until it sounds good to me. I have no idea of what those dials stand for or how they work internally. I like to drive instruments/recording gear vs. opening the hood and tinkering on them.
I don't foresee anything revolutionary coming that the average joe harp player will take notice to. What I do see I can flow better with my songs and have more fun with bending the time of the beats in relation to what I sing, blow. I doubt very few will catch it. It is like a jimmy reed song. Most players dismiss it as simple stuff but when they try to play along they usually overplay, overthink underplay, vs. finding the off center groove he had. They usually move onto to more thought orientated music.
For me the harp is a piece of the song, like all the instruments are. I don't see the harp or any instrument as beyond the song. The story it paints is made up of the minimum amount of music. That allows for the song to be the focus. Anyway, I am off this evening to make some music with the new harps. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
here is one from tonight- the old man and the promised land ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
turning the knobs till it sounds good is not that different from gapping a harp.. need to be patient and get it so it sounds right.. hell, i played for 35 years without gapping, overblowing, customizing etc....it is just turning the knobs and with overblow, getting a note that was in my head but was not on the harp before.. kind of like finding the bends.
also, i really like how you get a warbled bend so easy on those new customs
Jodanchudan - If you give Peter Blyth at Harmonicas Direct a ring, he has a few in a couple of keys. I ordered one from Peter yesterday. I got my first one by chance from an ebay seller called "xtc-uk". I'd suggest sending him an email and asking for those particular ones. Because I ordered two and got one old style one and one new one.
"the long term costs actually works out CONSIDERABLY cheaper and with good breath control it lasts for years and now the harp is no longer a throwaway, but a lifetime instrument like a horn or a guitar."
Exactly BBQBob!
you shouldn't throw away musical instruments like ball point pens. other musicians don't do that. why should we?
a harp can last indefinately. only one thing breaks and that is the reeds and they can be fixed good as,or better than new. ----------
MP doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
I won't throwing any more out! I figure I have trashed many big grocery bags worth ove the years. Like I said, nobody was tweaking harps back then in my circles. There was no internet. Where you played live was your worldwide audience.
Here are some from this morning. I am entering hayfever season here and took my first claritin D an hour ago. I hate these pills but the alternative is worse. My family is a poster child for allergies. Luckily I am the least affect and the only one that can keep pets. I have tried everything from allergy shots to accupuncture, diet, and some other way out cures that most would never attempt. So here I go with the last drug influenced songs(will last till mid June most likely). Walter
finally I m free trying to work out my issues many nights I listened to the blues in that old cadillac all I can say is this ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
here is one from this afternoon about spending drinking whiskey in old bluesmens homes. Walter
drinking whiskey in old bluesmen homes ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
I forgot to mention my cocaine blues gonna try laying my bottle down been high too long ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
here are some from today with the 1 man band featuring some slide guitar. Walter
change don't complain the final day foot tappin the evil inside gonna boogie and rock you tonight pick your feet up and jump with joy how I lose the blues
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Brand new to MBH, but figured since I was being mentioned in this thread and Walter is making some great sounding tracks with these harps I would hop in.
The Harps Walter is using on these tracks are Hicksville, Marine Band vintage customs, and have had quite a bit of TLC given to them, (beyond just basic gaping). Mostly using techniques that I use to keep my own harps alive and kicking and singing.
I still have some of my first harps from back in the 70's. Since I frequently play harp in a rack these days while playing other instruments, my hats are off to folks like Walter who can get a good bluesy tone and articulations while playing with a rack.
Regarding a few comments here: -------------- From Toddlegreen "('Hey, all those young MBH whippersnappers and their newfangled customfrillyfroufrou harmonicas with powder-coated cover plates and cherry-flavored unobtanium combs might just be on to something!'). Run, Walter, run!"
Good post- ToddL! Certainly no young whippersnapper here! I have been playing, recording, producing, and performing music most of my life. Harmonica was one of my first instruments.
The harps I like are no frills "working man's" harps. Like old classic guitars with their scratches, dinks, and dings, I don't care much how something looks, but how how it sounds. They may not be pretty, or coated with shiny cherry colored flavoring, but they are set up for the way I like to play. ------------ From Kingly: "Yesterday though I got one of the newer Marine Band 1896 harps with the all tan coloured combs and "Hohner" stamped on the comb."
-------- I'm going to be ordering some of these direct from Hohner soon for some new projects, and have heard some really good reviews. This is great news for Marine Band fans.
If they are getting these closer to the "Deluxe" setup sound with a sealed comb, (and a similar price point to previous MB classics), they will be much easier to take to higher levels for customizers and folks who work on their own harps. One drawback is having to drill your own bolts if you want to maintain over time.
I like the idea of lifetime harps. I could have thrown my guitars away every time I broke a string or they got out of tune, or the action went south, but I'm glad I didn't.
-------
From: Barbeque Bob Maglinte
"Kingley, the reasons those new MB's play so well are the profile they're using, the fully sealed combs, and more importantly, the slot tolerances are much thighter than they've ever been. My only complaint is that they didn't open the back covers like they did prior to WWII or even prior to the 80's and if they did that, they'd play far better than they do now just from a volume and projection standpoint alone." -------- Great post BB Bob. If the slot tolerances are tighter already, maybe no need for additional embossing. Its pretty easy to open up the back covers yourself if you like the way that sounds. I did that to all the MB's Walter is referring to here.
Joe Siers AKA Harpwrench has mentioned that in the early years of his customizing, jsut as with Filisko, embossing the slot tolerances were one of the first things you HAD to do because in the 80's-mid 90's stock, they varied greatly on got wider and wider and I myself noticed that when I took a blow reed plate from one harp of the same key and placed it on another harp of the same key where it played like crap, the one that played better, as it turned out, had a tighter slot tolerance and the set up of the blow reed plate greatly affected the way the draw reed plays in a major way.
I've placed covers from pre-WWII MB's on newer MB's made from the 80's and later and they played significantly louder because those were already more wide open than the way they've been making the covers since 1980.
Some people still may want them tighter and still, tho, the newer Hohner MB/MBD, Suzuki Manji, Seydel 1847, and LO's, which have the tightest slot tolerances of any stock harps around, still aren't as tight as they are from some of the best customizers in the business like the Filisko guild. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Here are some songs from tonights session using the MBD Burket T restored for me. Walter
why do most families drift apart? you think you have the blues
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
here are a couple from tonight with a Burke T customized marine band in G- just vocals and harp. I am getting use to these babies! Walter
look at the stars tonight what am I doing here
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Thanks Walter. The tracks sound great. You are getting a nice harp tone on the recordings. The guitar playing is sweet too!
Regarding BBQ Bob's insight above regarding embossing, and slot tolerances, I totally agree. In this batch of harps I've been working on (from an old music teacher's stock) some of the harps came from the post Hicksville era, had different boxes and could be distinguished by the two nails on the draw plate (between the end reeds) as opposed to three on the Hicksville Harps. Since some of the boxes got mixed up, this helped to differentiate them from the others.
One of the first ones I worked on was from this batch, a G with the two nailed draw plate. It came out OK, but even with embossing and much reed work and tweaking, opened covers, etc., it still sounded weak and leaky. Almost as if there were small runnels in the reed plate letting the air out.
Compared to the Hicksville -G's (like the one that Walter is using on his recordings), its like night and day. Way louder, brighter, more responsive, and they really tightened up with the embossing work.
I went seeking these new Marine Bands, but wonder which they are-I assume they're among the blister-packed ones, but I wonder if all the blister-packed MBs are the new ones Kingley speaks of? ---------- Todd L. Greene
Another thing common back with both the Hicksville and the stuff when they moved to VA until the mid 90's was that often times they did some really bad riveting jobs, with sometimes the rivet being cocked and not properly centered and more frequently not riveted flush flat to the reed plate and from 1980-1995, it was a necessity to take them apart and tack a nail set and a small tack hammer and VERY GENTLY tap down on the rivet to ensure the reed was flush flat on the plate.
Toddgreene, I'd go online and order them, but tell them to make sure that's the stock you want because often times in brick and mortar stores, the stock has been there for sometimes as long as 10 years and it's hard to tell from the blister pack, which I personally loate because you can't check that out in a store because of that. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
I think you would need to check with the retailer and make sure they are selling the new Marine Bands with the sealed combs. I have not seen them yet, but have heard you can request them direct from Hohner, or Rockin Ron's is now selling them. (Which I confirmed yesterday).
Until they retooled in the mid 90's, the last good batch they had put out was the not just the Hicksville stuff, bur the real last of the good ones also had their old Canadian offices of Don Mills, Ontario listed on that together with the Hicksville address and afterwards, the covers became considerably more closed up, which lost a lot of volume and projection (timeline is roughly 1978-81), and that's where the big quality slide started until the retooling.
Joe Filisko traced the start of the slide to somewhere in the 60's, but it accellerated greatly in 1981. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Most of the Hicksville's I've been working on from a particular batch have the Hicksville/ Mills, Canada listed on the Box. Unfortunately, some of the boxes got shuffled, but in that case I check the number of nails on the draw plate. So far all the Hicksville, Canada ones really sound great with TLC. I usually open up the cover flaps too.
I see one box that does not have the Mills/ Canada imprint, just Hicksville, but its a new/ never been played one in Bb and I'm hoping it wakes up nicely too.
