No offense intended, but why don't you try to figure it out on your own.
Learning is an exciting thing and figuring something like that out is empowering and you might stumble on other things along the way. That's how people learned to play before the advent of big time harmonica instruction. It can be a fun, rewarding and exciting way to learn how to play.
yea he's amazing i just need to learn it and i thought it would be a fun song for Adam and his one man band it also gave me a sense of difference in style and performance that harp dose not have to be fast it can be calming
Joe makes a great point. I can remember spending weeks on end lifting the needle backwards and forwards on vinyl records trying to learn songs. Even today if I'm learning something new I end up using my ear. I can't use that tab stuff. The joy of learning is often forgotten in this internet age. People always ask what key?, any tab?, etc, etc. Working things out for yourself is a great thing to do. When you work something out for yourself you get a great sense of achievement and it opens other doors.
SonnyD, I very much appreciate your confidence in me, but Kingley is right, too. We all did that record copying thing. Sometimes it's helpful to have somebody unlock the first bits of the mystery, but after that, it's even more helpful to invest sweat equity. I'm always amazed by how my ears suddenly open up as I begin to figure something out. When I first listened to the Sanford and Son theme, I couldn't for the life of me figure out what the chordal background was. When I realized that it modulated from the I to the IV chord, so that it then oscillated between the IV chord and the fourth of THAT chord (the flat VII chord), that gave me a thrill. But of course not everybody has the ability to figure that much out, so there's a place for translators like me and others who do that sort of thing.
SonnyD, I was where you are 1-2 years ago, asking similar questions. I'll add some of my experiences that weren't mentioned in this thread: - Whatever time spent reading tabs could be better spent developing your ear. You will not use tabs in a few months to a year. You always will use your ear - train it! - If a song is too hard for you to understand, either learn it piece by piece, or better yet find songs that are easier for you (but still a challenge). The idea is to push yourself enough so that you learn, but not so much that you struggle and lose interest. You will later go back to a difficult song and be able to play it. - If there are techniques in the song which you aren't comfortable with, practice them separately. Come back to the song when you are good at it.
The most salient component, in my opinion, to "sounding it out" and learning something piecemeal is that you learn HOW to learn. Breaking the song down into parts was mentioned. I'll take it a step further. I will isolate a technical lick I want to learn, and then break that lick down into small parts and tackle it little by little until I can reflexively play the whole thing. Hakan breaks down some licks like this in his recent videos. You'll find....well, at least my theory is that every time you sound something out, you're weaving a thread into a matrix in your mind that eventually will support the learning as well as the improv process.
@Kingley "The joy of learning is often forgotten in this internet age."
How has the internet made learning joyless? From what I can see, the internet is a great catalyst for learning and discovery.
I was begging for the key and looking for tabs 40 years ago, and I still do it when I need to. Working through tab turns on some lights for me and others, and can help build the skill to figure things on your own. I'm better at that now, because of tab, not in spite of it. People learn through different methods.
Let's rephrase that then, 'The joy of figuring it out instead of asking has been forgotten in this internet age.'
For what it's worth, that can be a good thing or a bad thing. There are things that just aren't worth the time or hassle to figure out. It's probably easier to rely on your GPS than to actually learn the layout of the roads where you are going, and as long as you have your GPS with you, it's probably just as useful. Tab hasn't quite gotten to that point yet, at least not for songs that aren't standards. It may in a few years. It might be nice to have an app that actually figured out the tab for you instead of having to look it up on the internet.
Still, there are some differences in how you internalize music when you learn it from tab instead of by ear. I'm middle of the road. I don't use tab at all, but I will do anything I can to avoid having to sit there and go through different harps to figure out the key. :) (I'm getting better at it though. I think the point is, that you can double up on your learning by doing it by ear. You get two useful skills, playing and listening, instead of just playing (and learning tab, I suppose that is a useful skill. It was probably even more useful before it became easier to find a recording of something than sheet music or tab for it.) ---------- Nate Facebook Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
easyreeder - What I mean is that much of the joy of discovery has been taken away by the advent of internet information. For instance in the old days you had to figure out what key, what position, what groove, the riffs, the words, etc, etc. Now much of this information is given which can take out a lot of pleasure of the "eureka" moments. Don't get me wrong the internet has opened many doors for many people and is a great resource. What it does though is removes much of the intimacy of sitting down with an album and working things out. There is something joyful in sitting and running a riff over and over again to get it, that you just don't get in the same way from tablature.
yea i get it this song getting easier as i try and once i get it I'm really going to challenge my self by try duster Bennett country jam this looks hard i don't think any one can get that down its impossible
@kingley "...in the old days you had to figure out what key, what position, what groove, the riffs, the words, etc, etc"
You're comparing self-directed learning with lessons, and apparently finding fault with lessons because they give you too much information.
I agree with you about great feeling of accomplishment from figuring a tune out on your own. But the ability to do that is a side effect of playing in the right key in the first place. Most new players don't have that skill and don't have full compliment of harps (I certainly didn't) and many can't afford more than one or two (that was true for me). I wasted a lot of time trying to figure out which of one or two harps to use when I didn't have one that would work. When that was the case I wasn't learning any licks, or other techniques, I was just struggling. I think that time is better spent learning licks by identifying, by the quickest and easiest means available, tunes that will work with the harps you have. It leads to successful playing experience, which develops the feel that helps figure out the key.
"There is something joyful in sitting and running a riff over and over again to get it, that you just don't get in the same way from tablature."
Agreed, but I think that's an individual thing related to how you learn. You say you can't use tab. I find tab difficult, but usually well worth the effort and I still get plenty of kicks, even if I learned it from tab, because there's still plenty to discover that tab doesn't tell you. But like training wheels, when you don't need it anymore you'll stop using it naturally.
"Shortnin' Bread" is a great fun song to learn to play... I heard Peter "Madcat" Ruth do this song live at his 1st SPAH convention in 1980, and I remembered learning to play it on piano when I was taking lessons in grade school... it became one of my favorite songs to play (along with "Fishin' Blues" that Madcat also played).
Its a great song to play on all three octaves !
I have three different versions that Madcat recorded... on his "Live at Nature's Table" album, and his "Mostly for Kids" cassette tape (both of these are pretty fast tempo songs), and another from his "Harmonica and Ukulele Project", which is a slower version.
Again, this is a great song to learn, and being a "familiar" song means it might be one of those songs already in your head.
Neal Pattman's version is different than the version Madcat does, but very enjoyable in a Sonny Terry style.
Last Edited by on Mar 11, 2012 12:23 PM
