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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Storing 7 harps in Lee Oscar case
Storing 7 harps in Lee Oscar case
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McManus
9 posts
Feb 12, 2012
9:12 PM
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I have an A, Bflat, C, D, E, F and G harps.
I have them in alphabetical order.
Is there another order that makes more sense?
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robbert
46 posts
Feb 12, 2012
9:33 PM
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Depends on how you think, musically. I arrange mine according to the Circle of Fifths. C, G, D, A, E, B, F#, etc.
Study of the Circle of Fifths is very helpful for understanding position playing.
If you've heard the terms 1st, 2ond, 3rd position etc. in regard to playing the harp, but don't really understand it too well, study of the Circle of Fifths helps immensely.
Of course, study of the Circle of Fifths is a bit of a project, too...but indispensable if you really get into playing.
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timeistight
330 posts
Feb 12, 2012
9:38 PM
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I don't know if it makes more sense, but you could do circle of fifths:
Bb, F, C, G, D, A, E
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oldwailer
1852 posts
Feb 12, 2012
10:16 PM
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You should get a bigger case. ;-)
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nacoran
5226 posts
Feb 13, 2012
11:34 AM
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I usually keep mine in alphabetical, lowest to highest, just because it's so quick, but if you really memorize the circle of fifths (or just label them) there are some real advantages. When you are keying songs, in particular, having them arranged by 5ths can be a big help. If you grab a harp and it sounds terrible, skip a few spaces and grab a different one. If it's sounds close though, you might only be off by one space. Arranged by circle the harps will sort of help you find the key. It also makes it real quick to find the cross harp key when someone calls out the song key.
The other option, which I did at our only real show, was to arrange them roughly in the order I was going to use them. Of course, occasionally you may have to double back to a harp that's being used on more than one song... if you are rich I guess you could have a different one for each song! (Hey, a guy can dream!)
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Nate
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Kingley
1789 posts
Feb 13, 2012
12:23 PM
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I always keep mine in key order G, A, Bb, C, D, Eb, F
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boris_plotnikov
697 posts
Feb 14, 2012
1:36 AM
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I always put harps that way C LC Db LDb D LD Eb LEb E LE F LF LF# G Ab A Bb B, I don't really know why, but that's for what I get used to.
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Sarge
107 posts
Feb 14, 2012
5:55 AM
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Kingley and nacoran keep theirs the correct way.
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McManus
10 posts
Feb 14, 2012
6:07 AM
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Thanks, for the help! Now to study; Circle of 5ths!
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dougharps
157 posts
Feb 14, 2012
7:56 AM
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Interesting discussion!
@Sarge
I don't believe that there is always a "correct way" to arrange your harps or for that matter, to do anything with harmonica. There are different ways with advantages and disadvantages. There are 2 different ways in common use. There may be others of which I am unaware. Rather than say whether something is "right" or "wrong" why not make a statement as to the benefits of the approach you prefer?
@all
There seem to be two common ways people arrange their harps: 1) Circle of fifths; 2) By key of the harp.
Keyboard oriented players seem to usually go by order of the notes, as on a keyboard. This makes it easy to find the harp as they are arranged by the notes in the scale. There may be other benefits. If so, won't someone who does it this way please post about it? I am really interested in the benefits of different approaches.
Other players tend to use circle of fifths to arrange harps. Quite a while ago I was taught the circle of fifths by a guitar player, before a lot of harmonica instructional material became available. I began arranging my harps by circle of fifths. This approach has served me well over the years.
I adopted organizing by circle of fifths so that choosing the harp for any position to play in a given key was simply apparent by looking at the harps. I easily learned the circle of fifths without memorization by having them in this order.
This approach also makes it easy to use the circle to learn the order in which sharps and flats are added to a scale as you change keys.
Looking at the circle of fifths and Major keys, in adding sharps you start with F, sharpening it for the key of G. Sharps are added clockwise on the circle starting with F. For key of D, sharp the C as well as the F; for key of A, add the sharp of G; etc.) Flats are added counter clockwise, with sharping Bb for the key of F, then adding Eb for the key of Bb, etc.
*****
EDIT: What I wrote in the paragraph above still works, but after seeing Michael Rubin's latest M&P 64 youtube, I want to suggest that it is worth seeing to learn more about the circle of fifths. The notes for any given major scale can be read off the circle of fifths.
*****
But just because circle of fifths arrangement has been useful to me in learning some theory and definitely in playing positions, I would not say that arranging by scale notes is "wrong" and arranging by circle of fifths is "right."
Obviously arranging by key has worked well for many good players. It is just a matter of opinion and choice. I really would like to hear the benefits of arranging by order of key. I long ago took the other route, but still try to keep an open mind.
Will someone please post the benefits to arranging by notes of the scale?
PS @all
IMHO far too frequently on this forum, when people take absolute inflexible stands on their beliefs/approaches, and someone disagrees, the exchange of information is lost as posts escalate to sarcasm and name calling. Sometimes posts start citing the names of good players who do it a certain way using them as authorities for justification for an approach. Then the information about the benefits and disadvantages of a given approach get lost in the point/counterpoint.
I think that we all benefit as players by sharing approaches and opinions in a respectful way.
Note: (Sarge WAS respectful, he just made an absolute statement that got me thinking, but he didn't escalate in any way. This PS is not aimed at Sarge!)
I think we benefit by giving fair consideration to different approaches to the instrument.
Strengths of arranging by notes, anyone?
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Doug S.
Last Edited by on Feb 15, 2012 3:49 PM
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Sarge
108 posts
Feb 14, 2012
1:24 PM
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doughharps, I just made that statement because that's the way I do it. Everybody has their own way that works for them
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Last Edited by on Feb 14, 2012 1:24 PM
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Joe_L
1727 posts
Feb 14, 2012
1:41 PM
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Like Kingley said, "I always keep mine in key order G, A, Bb, C, D, Eb, F"
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dougharps
161 posts
Feb 14, 2012
1:42 PM
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@Sarge
OK...
Good response to a long post!
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Doug S.
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LittleBubba
185 posts
Feb 14, 2012
1:54 PM
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I arrange in ascending order, so the low register harps are at one end (Low F,G,A,etc) and the high G & A are at the other end. I have a removeable tray in my case with about half the harps in it, and my C harps ( I keep two in my case, tuned differently ) end one tray and start the next. It works for me 'cuz the Cs are easy to find and us old farts play in G (2nd pos.,C harp) alot, to suit our sagging singing range.
I keep about 22 harps in my case at all times, including about 3 backups.
Last Edited by on Feb 14, 2012 1:56 PM
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CapnKen
18 posts
Feb 14, 2012
2:10 PM
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I have 2 rows of 6 in my Hohner box. in one row is F E D C A G. In the next row is LF LE D C A Bb or G depending on the set list.
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robbert
47 posts
Feb 14, 2012
2:18 PM
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I guess it doesn't much matter what order to keep the damn things in so long as you're not rummaging around in a trunk of harps, trying to find the key you want to play in, while the band plays on...
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bluemoose
684 posts
Feb 14, 2012
4:02 PM
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If you keep them in circle of fifths it makes selecting odd positions, 11th,12th,4th,5th etc. a trivial exercise, especially on the band stand on the spot in the dark with a (fox in the study with a knife) couple of pints under your belt.
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Tuckster
966 posts
Feb 14, 2012
8:46 PM
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i arrange mine by key order but I start at A and end on G. I can see how the circle of 5ths way would make it really easy to choose different positions. But I don't carry a B or an F# in my main harp case. I use them so rarely that I carry them in my spare case. I'm so used to my way,I'd get all screwed up arranging by circle with those 2 missing harps.
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McManus
11 posts
Feb 15, 2012
6:23 AM
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I can see I'm going to need to study the Circle of 5ths.
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dougharps
162 posts
Feb 15, 2012
8:22 AM
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The way I arrange by circle of fifths is the 8 popular keys arranged from Eb to E by fifths: Eb, Bb, F, C, G, D, A, E. I keep the B, F#, Db, Ab separate, as they are not used nearly as frequently. I also keep Low F and High G, and alternate tuned harps separate from the 8 most used keys.
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Doug S.
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nacoran
5237 posts
Feb 15, 2012
12:40 PM
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Short of studying the circle of fifths, if you think that's how you want to arrange things, you can just label the slots. I'd think little stickers would work. I've seen fancier versions. If you are playing Lee Oskars you can use the 1st and 2nd position labeling to put things in circle order. I still think if I had a brand of harps I'd stamp the circle on the cover, rotated so whatever key the harp was was at the top. Either that or I'd do a layout for all the notes, including the different bends. I can kind of see the note layout chart, the blows stamped on the top, the draws on the bottom. I can figure out what note I'm playing, but there are times having a quick reference would help me tell the guitar player what I'm doing. Of course, unless you used Roman Numerals you'd have to have a different stamp for each key and tuning.
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Nate
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lumpy wafflesquirt
526 posts
Feb 15, 2012
2:08 PM
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I think mine are in a pretty random order, but they are all labelled on the end I can see
:^)
Putting them in circle of 5ths is OK if you have a circular case :^)
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Todd Parrott
841 posts
Feb 16, 2012
12:03 AM
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Since I started using different colored combs, it really doesn't matter - I know which is which very quickly.
I used to arrange them according to what I used the most, and placed the less often used keys beside each other, kinda like Boris' arrangement above.
Last Edited by on Feb 16, 2012 12:03 AM
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