He's a genius. I disagree with him on almost everything, but he's a genius at staging a harp lesson. Gorgeous backdrop and of course a very cute girl in a sundress:
"I disagree with him on almost everything, but he's a genius at staging a harp lesson. Gorgeous backdrop and of course a very cute girl in a sundress" (kudzurunner). I agree with you on everything :) .
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~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Steven Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
Here's a typical enquiry that I have received quite a few times over the last 3 years from potential customers about my downloadable beginner's course:- "How long will it take me to master the topics in the course"? I usually respond with the correct answer "I couldn't possibly tell you. It depends on how much effort you put into it", although with a little more detail than that. The customer then follows with something along the lines of "Well, JP Allen/harmonica.com promises that I will be able to master (insert topic here) within such and such a time".
I think everybody would love to be a harmonica god in 3 months without practicing and I'm surprised (actually I'm not) that people are gullible enough to buy into it.
I'm sure that anybody who has worked their butts off in order to play well would find the marketing disrespectful to the craft, but I guess it keeps the cash rolling in. The guy really is a genius.
Edited for spelling.
---------- "You will never get every possible thing out of an instrument, but the instrument will get every possible thing out of you" - Ray Charles.
Last Edited by on Jan 29, 2012 5:25 PM
I smell the snakeoil on him,and the only genius is the marketting for people who want the fast road,and even they will find out that the twisting yellowbrick road stretches far.Brilliant to put up the one year guarantee.
Definately great for him,and his assistants,be keeping people in much needed jobs.
Just guessing he copped madcats chugging,adams cool presentations,barretts knowledge,and the many other fine teachers excellent presentations.I did not press the button.
Last Edited by on Jan 29, 2012 6:16 PM
JP Allen, from what others have told me, is a really super nice guy. Some have told me that they did extremely well with his methods, and made great progress. And, on the flip side, I know one guy here in town that sent the course back and JP refunded his money as promised - he has a money-back guarantee.
I agree with Adam, that he's done an excellent job with marketing. However, I don't think I could do a video with a girl like that and talk about the deep, relaxed mouth position and keep a straight face. It cracked me up just watching it. :)
PS. I make it a rule in life never to give any of my money to people who have decks overlooking beautiful waterfalls in Hawaii. Regardless of any claims to the contrary, if you've got a deck like that, you've clearly got enough cash to go around!
In that regard, I guess we are all suckers for not realizing that we could use the harmonica to buy ourselves a deck overlooking a beautiful tropical waterfall in Hawaii. Jokes on us! ---------- == I S A A C ==
JP Allen is a great friend of mine. He used to live in Austin. I never felt anything but care and love radiating from him. We got to be friends because one of us was walking down the street playing harp. The other pulled out a harp and we started jamming. There was never any competitive feeling between us. Over the years he gave me the UT Informal Class for beginning harp. When he moved to Hawaii he gave me all his private students. But our friendship wasn't just about harp. If you smell snake oil, it might be because he is very good at marketing. But in this case it is a marketer with a heart of gold. He wants to make a living, just like you. But he wants you to feel connected to music and that is his foremost intention.
Thanks Michael for shining a light on JP,I am sure he is a fine chap.The only thing that got snakey for me was the 8 minutes,get good without practice deception.For all I know somebodies getting a marketting cut.No biggie just saying.
Last Edited by on Jan 29, 2012 7:30 PM
@ Michael Rubin - You are right - everybody has a right to earn a living and I'm sure that he is pleasant enough in person, but then I'll bet so are lots of murderers, drug dealers and other people of dubious character. Now I'm not accusing JP Allen of breaking the law and this may be a cultural difference between the US and the UK, but if his foremost intention is to connect people with music and not make money, couldn't he do it in a more transparent, honest and less sleazy manner. He is afterall making money in much the same way as those selling penis enlargement pills, weight loss products, baldness cures or their services as a spirit medium. Of course he could have chosen to use more honest marketing, but it would mean making less money. He chose it because it suckers people in and just because no law was broken it doesn't make it any less sleazy or dishonourable in my book. I was always taught to choose the company I keep very carefully and somebody who is at ease with taking good peoples money by using this type of marketing is not somebody I would choose to associate with neither personally nor professionally no matter what incentive I was offered or how nice a person they appear to be. Integrity is very important.
---------- "You will never get every possible thing out of an instrument, but the instrument will get every possible thing out of you" - Ray Charles.
Last Edited by on Jan 29, 2012 9:44 PM
Yeah I'm sure he is a really nice guy. He does however make outlandish claims about becoming an accomplished player in no time flat! Or maybe I'm jealous because I'm a dumb slow learner? I do however get p*ss*d off with his ads popping up on my Youtube channel. I purchased his video on Gypsy Harp (Harmonic Minor), & from my limited experience with this instructional material, I could never recommend him.
Hey! We're forgetting something here guys. Maybe the claims are wild but there is every chance that he will be generating new harmonica players who will quickly find that the claims are doubtfull who will then still be keen enough to find more in-depth lessons and tutors. That's where some of you come in. ----------
4 and a half years ago he inspired me to grab a C harp and start doin the toodle teedle thing. He's ok but its all up to the person with persistance, you either focus on lessons or eff off and play an elastic band on a stick.
JP isn't actually a member here, but he's somebody I collaborated with successfuly on an event last summer; he's a skilled teacher who does indeed, as Michael suggests, live life with passion, and he doesn't deserve to be savaged with flagrant disrespect. It's fine to disagree with his methods, but in this case, I'll make a personal request that you tone it down a notch. Even if you've actually purchased his materials and found them wanting, the word "sleazy" is out of bounds. And it doesn't appear that most of you have done that, which means the evidentiary basis for such summary judgments isn't as firm as it should be. Thanks, in any case, for your forbearance.
Last Edited by on Jan 30, 2012 4:32 AM
Tooka - I have had and currently do have quite a few students who started with JP Allen's material, but he is not the person who got them interested in harmonica in the first place. They were already interested after listening to the greats that we all know and love, then they found him first because of his aggressive marketing.
Adam - I'm not disrespecting his teaching methods although, like you, I do disagree with most of it. I simply have no respect for that type of marketing. With your academic background I would never assume that you don't know the meaning of sleazy, but let's replace it with one of the definitions of sleazy - immoral. If you don't agree that the type of marketing used is immoral it would mean that you agree with the opposite and that you find it perfectly acceptable. Is that true? I see no such marketing on your website, Michael Rubin's, David Barrett's and the list could go on.
There was simply a point in time where JP had to make a choice about how to market his product. The choice he made was one that I couldn't choose if I wanted to be able to sleep at night.
You won't hear anything more from me about this. I'm not interested in getting the last word in. I'll let it rest.
---------- "You will never get every possible thing out of an instrument, but the instrument will get every possible thing out of you" - Ray Charles.
Last Edited by on Jan 30, 2012 8:57 AM
I'm not sure which of his methods you all are in such disagreement about. I haven't taken his course but I got the following points from this video:
Get the harmonica deep in your mouth. Doesn't everyone agree this is the basis for good tone?
Keep your jaw loose. Ditto.
Rhythm and rhythmic breathing are vitally important to learn early. Richard Sleigh makes pretty much the same point.
His most controversial statement is probably that you're doing yourself more harm than good practicing on your own because you're probably practicing bad habits. I think he oversells this notion, but I do think there's a grain of truth in it.
Now I do think his lessons seem overpriced, but that's something for the market to sort out, isn't it?
Last Edited by on Jan 30, 2012 9:53 AM
Based on that one video,I wasn't too impressed with his playing ability. His approach seems to stress just having fun with playing and not getting too serious about the finer points of playing.
If I were king of the world,life would be fair and Adam would have that house in Hawaii (if he so chooses).
I never really understood what it is about music that makes otherwise intelligent, thoughtful prospective students think there is some kind of magical shortcut to playing any musical instrument well. There are plenty of sites, books and CD/DVDs promising overnight mastery of guitar, piano, you name it.
I always thought it should be fairly obvious to any but the most naive, that there is no quick way to develop the necessary muscle memory and refine all the technique it takes to become a master of any instrument. Some might learn a little (or a lot) quicker than others, but does anybody really think somebody picks up an instrument and within a few short weeks or months plays like one of the masters?
Having tried my hand at harp rather late in life, believe me, I wish it were true. Unfortunately, it's not.
EDIT: Say what you want about ethics, morals, whatever, dude is hitting the marketing hard. Just went to The Drudge Report, pretty sizable ad for his harmonica lessons there. Not sure how the $$$$ on that works out, but Drudge gets a gazillion hits so an ad on that page has got to be pretty pricey right? Or is that a deal where JP only has to pay Drudge if somebody clicks through to his site?
Hey, how much for a large jug of Sorin's magic harmonica pills?
Last Edited by on Jan 30, 2012 10:58 AM
I'm sure JP needs no defence, nevertheless I think he's had a pretty rough ride in this thread.
He understands marketing, web-commerce, production values and the power of a pretty girl. What's wrong with that?
His only promise is to make you sound "awesome" (entirely subjective) and his target audience are complete beginners. He doesn't say "I will make you an advanced, professional level harmonica player", he doesn't say "You'll get Big Walter's tone". He's just encouraging the total newbie to take some first steps towards a good, firm, "awesome" foundation.
So, whilst I reckon most of us here could give someone 8 mins of tutorage a week and make them sound "awesome" too, he's doing it and raking in the cash. Good luck to him.
And don't blame him for the google ads on youtube or elsewhere; if they really bother you complain to google (or disable your browser's cookies). Putting him in the same league as fake viagra pedling Chinese spammers is unfair and ill-informed. He is paying Google to advertise his services, Google is paying the sites that host the adverts - it's fair and legitimate and if anyone is to blame, it is the owner/uploader of the video who has chosen to monetize the video.
Totally unaffiliated blah, blah blah. In fact never even purchased anything from him.
I have watched quite a few of his videos over the years. And while he does use a lot of marketing hyperbole it appears his basic attempt is to make practice fun so that you don't look at it as practicing.
Now admittedly his sometimes overly sweet approach gets to me. But as has been mentioned none of the stuff he says is actually wrong other than the marketing hype about practice. That could be worded better.
i cant remember a single video of his where teaches anything BUT some very basic chugging. then when he has his assistant chugging, jp takes a solo. how can that NOT sound cool? no wonder folks pony up for his lessons. and i would guess most of them are going to be fairly simple and easy to master.
but for the same amount of money, probably less, and,unfortunately, more time and effort, you could get maybe all of adam's lessons and learn to be a REAL player.
but this is america where the work ethic went out of country with the jobs, imo. thus the popularity of david harp's material and jp allen's video lessons and sorin's magic pills.
the pills, btw, are buy one get one free for a limited time. just pay the shipping and handling on the 2nd bottle.
BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE. if you order in the next 3 hours you receive a free instructional chugging dvd WITH tabs!
Bought jp dvds and he got me motivated. It was kind of all or nothing. I thought your going to commit but he allowed me to pay in instalments and his basic instruction on teqnique is pretty much the same as any other teacher and he does stress its for non musicians. I still you his material to suppory what i am learning online. But to top it all I had my first proper lesson from IAN BRIGGS Today of the supervampers. Hes also played with the yardbirds. My jaw was gaping listening to his tone pure brilliance. Its A day I will remember forever.Hes Awsome and I cant wait for my next lesson. Chugging with him was amazing. Hes A great bluesman,check out his album blues avenue. One of the best days of my life.
when i bought my first harp, and went to youtube for reference and lessons, this was the first guy i came across... the second was doc, and well, it didnt take much to realize who was the better teacher of the two. jussayin ---------- Kyzer's Travels Kyzer's Artwork "Music in the soul can be heard by the universe." - Lao Tzu
I'm with you on this Adam. He seems like genuine nice guy. He can play pretty good but his teaching just from the little I saw is not what I would expose anyone to. I don't think my opinion is uniformed. Having studied with Robert Bonfiglio, Forrest Scott(Steve Guyger's chrom teacher)Howard Levy Augusta, Cham ber Huang workshops NY.
I must say he is a master at marketing. ---------- Emile "Diggs" D'Amico a Legend In His Own Mind How you doin'
