Hey people, I got this dilemma/problem. Here’s some singing and harmonica I recorded. I found this very cool backing track today.
Now the thing is, I like singing. But I only recently (3 years or so) began listening to blues singers. Before that, when I sang it was mostly irish/English songs. The problem (I think) is I have quite a European accent when I attempt to sing blues. And my other ‘mode’ is a rather dandy English one, far from bluesy.
If I’d really wanted I think I could imitate a more American or Afro A accent, but it wouldn’t feel right. It sounds phoney to me and quickly over the top.This recording already sounds over the top to me. Besides I notice when I sing something I mean, my pronunciation get’s more dutch anyway. And as you can hear the challenge of stayin in pitch and getting the timing right doesn’t make things easier. This timing on this song is really tough.
I’d love to hear thoughts, tips ideas anything. From American harpplayers and/or non-american players that sing. I’m also thinking is it just the accent? Or more a technique matter..
Just go with what God gave you man. It's the blues. I gotta deal with my pipes. Listen to Springstien, or Armstrong. Horrible voices. But,...look what they did. Go man Go.
Your voice has really nice tone -- I say forget about trying to sound "authentically bluesy" (whatever that means) and concentrate on communicating a sincere connection to the song, the lyrics, and the music. Forget about the accent and let it fly......
In my opinion it sounds good. I'm not saying you have a great singing voice, I'm just saying that somehow it fits. It's not a matter of being bluesy it's more of a matter of it being sort of unique. You don't sound like you're trying to be anything or anybody...just you... and you've got sort of your own thing going on there. Somehow it works. Exactly how I don't know but that is part of why it works. (for me). ---------- Tommy
Wow thanks you all, you're fast. I was still wondering what I had done puttin it up here. I'll get back to you all, but I need to sleep now. I't hard to imagine what it would sound like to native speakers..I mean in dutch I know just a handful of songs that don't sound extremely odd and corny, later!
I think you have a good singing voice ,first you gotta find the right key to sing , and also know your range . To me it seems that you reading the lyrics , you gotta know the lyrics and be in the song ,and have fun.... you cannot think about pitch , timing and other technical stuff , it will ruin everything ...you gotta sing from your heart , otherwise it sounds artificial . ---------- Free video harp tabs and backing tracks
First of all I'm far from a singing coach or advanced player, so take everything that follows in that context. I think the tone, timbre etc. of your voice is fine, ie: I think you have a pretty good natural voice. In the verse following the solo (2:14 - 2:30) I thought you sounded pretty good except for the last word "anymore". I can't quite put my finger on it but that's where to my ears something sounded off a little. I think its a cadence thing not a tonal or pronunciation thing. But that's where it felt a little off to me.
I'm gonna disagree with some of the posters who say don't bother working on it...I think you could go either way with it. while i agree that there are a lot of pros who don't have the greatest voices, there are some actors who do unbelievable jobs in disguising the "accents" of their native tongue, for certain roles, they're very convincing.
I think it's really your call. In any case I think you sound better than you think.
After reading your post, I was braced for a thick accent. Hell, it sounds like English is your natural language. If you want to muddy it up a little, try holding the tip of your tongue between your thumb and index finger when you sing.....then go back to the way you're doing it in the recording. There's always room for improvement, but I think you've got the important stuff down. You're hitting the notes, your rhythm is good, the quality and timbre of your voice is good.
man you sound fine. accept this from a white boy blues singer of well over a decade. check the link at the bottom of my post. look up jawbone and jolene on youtube. now you can believe this or not, but i never found my real voice until my late 30's and i am in my 50's now. my voice- and harp- have not taken me around the world but they have sufficed very nicely in the southern usa including the blues mecca of clarksdale mississippi. so take me at my word, you sound as good or better than a lot of posers who wish they really felt and could reflect the blues in their voice. also, try some other tracks if this does not satisfy. try a drink or a smoke beforehand and loosen up a bit. and not to get too personal but have you had your heart broken yet? this is music that reflects real pain and loss. it also transforms that pain and loss to joy almost magically. i think i was meant to sing and play blues. loss from an early age coupled with a very extroverted personality. how about you? regardless, if you want to and you keep working, you will arrive at where you want to be. i think you are already there mostly. ---------- http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
I with @Sorin on this ..your voice is fine but (maybe) because you arn't singing in your native language it does come off a bit dry as if you are reading the lyrics. Funny thing is that i've noticed here in Newzealand ,where we all speak english,quite a few people when it comes to singing blues struggle with their intonation as well. Blues just doesn't sound right sung in Kiwi english so everyone seems to put on an affected version of (say) Muddys accent. I was at at a Brendan Power Gig a few years back when he came home to do some shows and he commented on this as well.(In good humour)
It's funny, the whole thing about 'authentic' sound. I was at an open mic the other night and an older black gentleman got up. He sang a really wonderful soul tune with a wonderful soulful voice. The next number was a cover of 'What a Wonderful World'. He did his best Satchmo voice, completely different than what he had sounded like on the song before. He did it well, but I think it was the tipping point for me on an issue I've been flip-flopping on for a while. I wanted to be a writer when I was a kid. In writing, as long as it's done respectfully, there has been a long tradition of writing dialogue in different dialects for different characters. The key is not to stereotype. I think the gentleman who was performing at the open mic was copying, not parodying. It was just another tool in his tool set- Satchmo voice, check, soul voice, check... Punk is almost always sung with a British accent, even if the band is from Seattle (Greenday). I think the trick is to decide what you want your voice to sound like on a particular song. I only sing a few of our bands songs, but two of them both have a country feel to them (one actually is a parody- Space Cowboy- and I do ham it up, but the other one is just what the song calls for. I've got a light, airy sound I use on other songs, but that's not what the song needs.
I liked your singing. It fit the song. I could hear your accent, but only slightly- if I'd heard you singing without you telling me you had an accent I might have just called it 'your voice'. It sounded good on the song. If done well, you can switch how you sing from song to song. People may call you out for faking, but does a tongue blocker get called out for playing lip pursing for a song because they want a different tone? You play or sing what fits, as long as the reason you are playing it that way is because it is what sounds good, not because you are making fun of a group, although I always think it's okay to make fun of country singers. Of course, they almost self-parody, because like punk singers they put on an accent to fit in with the crowd they are aiming for. Signifiers. Go figure. :)
I’m very relieved to hear the accent is not so annoying or as big of an issue I perceive it to be.
@2chops Thanks for the encouraging words! All the best, honkin your own pipes.
@droffilcal yeah ok, the accent is of less concern. I love hearin that, thanks!
@Tommy the Hat I’m pleased with your kind and interesting remarks. The ‘somehow it works’ made me laugh at first, now it’s puzzling me a little.
@sorin yeah! You’re right I was reading lyrics at times. I know this song from Bob Dylan actually, so I’m struggling with the key a little. Well I can come up with all kind of excuses, but I’m not gonna bother.
@Honkin On Bobo You know, I’ll try and find the middle ground, thanks!
@FMWoodeye I’ll try that interesting tip, see how it works out. I sure hope it’s no joke!
@jbone Yes I know your site. I visited recently, when discussing that help me video I made. You sound damn good. Drinks and smoke are not a problem. Well actually they are. I always thought this song was more about dope though. I have only known Dylan’s version. Where he sings ‘you ain’t gonna worry poor me’ I thought he sang ‘you ain’t gonna work for me anymore’. Oh well. Extraverted? I don’t know..more like a walking contradiction at social functioning. Brokenhearted, yes sir. Full-blown. Thanks for your comments.
@Jehosaphat yeah as I mentioned I was partly readin the lyrics. Funny I’m not the only one struggling with this!
@arzajac, Todd Parrott & eharp thanks for your support
Transaltion: Ladies I have a magic saltshaker. With it you can actually tast real salt. What you just have to do is put your head a little back and empty the saltshaker in your mouth.
Being a white boy, I share your dilemma. Your voice is fine. As stated above in different ways - less enunciation, more slang expression and cutting of some hard consonants at the end of words - like "doin', feelin' etc, more stretching out of phrases. Like saying "fewcha" instead of "future" in one of the songs below. You don't have to copy the way the words are sung, but start down that path and you will find a happy medium according to your style and voice.
Here are several examples of the British blues band Savoy Brown sounding VERY bluesy:
" I’m pleased with your kind and interesting remarks. The ‘somehow it works’ made me laugh at first, now it’s puzzling me a little."
I'm just saying that while I'm not sure I would say (by this performance) "wow...I'd like to hear him sing Frank Sinatra." I think that the song you posted sounded fine. It is your own style and isn't bad for the type of music. You were concerned about it not sounding "bluesy." I can understand what you mean but after hearing it didn't find it important. It worked. It fit and your voice didn't make the tune sound "not bluesy." I think that by trying to change it you would sound contrived. All I would work on is where at times you hit some bad notes at the end of sentences. But like I said, you seem to have your own style and it works. ---------- Tommy
@K Hungus As per other comments I think that that you have a good natural singing voice, but like most things there's always room for improvement. Your comment about this being "over the top" in trying to sound american or bluesy - I'd say definitely not, and making your annunciation a little less formal would definitely help.
Another thing that hasn't been mentioned is your pitching of the melody of the track. Many times you don't follow the melody but stay on the root note of the song. Perhaps practice pitching to the blues scale of the song before you start, then you might be more comfortable making the leaps between notes, or even some slurs and melismatic touches. Perhaps try playing the vocal line on harp or keys before singing it.
Anyway, a more than worthy effort - I'm always amazed when people can pull off a singing performance in a second (or third, fourth..) language
Last Edited by on Dec 18, 2011 5:30 AM
Thanks to clarify that Tommy! I’ll stick to ‘my style’ then, whatever that exactly maybe (except for singing a little off, here and there). I’ll work on the notes that are off though, I hear them too.
@GamblersHand yeah I’ve this tendency to stick to the root (can’t go wrong with the root!). Great practice tip, I should sing more melodic. Do you mean not following the melody of the original or just singing the changes to little. I can’t really hear a melody in the song actually, but that could very well be just me.
You know what I’ll do, I’ll sing another song in a while where I’ll try and implement all the advise you guys gave. Maybe I could record two versions, one ‘over the top’ so you can tell me what you think.
@the Gloth okay cool! I once tried listening to him on a myspace site but that didn't work, I'll look it up!
Last Edited by on Dec 18, 2011 7:27 AM
Hungus , I could tell right away you were reading the lyrics ...and you cannot do that , you are not into the song, you are distracted .Learn the lyrics , close your eyes , hit record and sing . You will see you get a different result , a more honest one.
Every now and than I try to sing , cannot do it very well , and like you I have my accent problem ( I am east european) , I can only sing some songs and only in some keys . If you follow the link on the bottom of my post you will see what I am talking about. Try this: after learning the lyrics try to record yourself without the backing track , try to find a different register , higher , where you might have to push your voice . You sing in your talking voice , which can come out flat sometimes . the other reason it doesn't sound "bluesy" is the way you attack and modulate the words .
Funny, someone else mentioned Walter Tore , he was the first thing that went trough my mind the first time I listened .
@Sorin Hey it's you! I know your YT video's. I'll send you an invite if that's okay. I played that 'help me' version of you, before I recorded mine.
It's not like I read all the time, but I sure hadn't memorized the lyrics. Sorry..I won't do it again. Quite amazing you can hear that right away. I'll try your tip next time.
I like your overall sound--I think you might work on changing your phrasing a little--not a lot--just little variances from one verse to the next so the "Anymore" is maybe not as clipped every time. The accent isn't a problem for me at all--as an American who sings. I like the harp a lot.
Your voice and accent remind me of Son Jack Jr.--a local musician from the Seattle area--but a native of England, I think--his website is
http://sonjackjr.com/default.aspx
if you want to give a listen to him--similar voice and similar accent--and I like him very much--also has a good harp player in Michael Wilde. . . ----------
@Oldwailer thanks..I'd wise to sound even close someday. The funny things is, maybe I know you mean.. he has a distinct accent. Not so typical English eihter..
But man they know how to produce, I get blown away by my 2 inch speakers. I probably get the album yeah
some great advice given , annunciation and phrasing . you have a good tone , it just needs to sound part of the song ,and others have said , you sound like you're reading it out . usually if i was to do a cover version or even do an original , have the structure of the song in your head ( melody ,chord changes ) Take "Trouble no more" , there is a guitar line that follows the vocal over the changes , and to comp along with that is a harp line , now chill out and listen to it and hum along to that melody line that the lead guitar and harp are playing , listening how the notes last and to the general dynamics of how muddy would sing it like he's sitting down with you telling you the story . it's not always completely down to accent , but a lot to do with notation and phrasing , to sound authentic using your own voice ,rather than trying to sound like someone else . also next time you record something , learn the song inside out , don't rely on lyric sheets this goes for gigs as well , they can become a saftey blanket , i've seen plenty of singers even from my own band wanting to nring out reems of paper to gigs and recording sessions , i think if you don't know the song enough to record it or play live , then go away and learn it . sorry if this sounds unduly harsh ,but you will thank me for it in the long run!
I think you have a unigue oppertunity to give your own twist or brand of blues style of singing!I know of a lot of british and others who were huge in america.so find your own style of blues singing brother.
K Hungus, I may be a contrarian here but I've got some thoughts for you. Before you try to sound like something else, you should work on your singing fully and pure, with no affectation at all. Like a lot of amateur singers, your tone and pitch is good on the larger root notes but your intervals tend to turn flat.
This tendency is usual because young singers (in experience, not age) tend to emphasize notes with larger duration - as you are clearly doing in the song. Very much like an instrument, your voice needs to be trained to handle the phrasing of the notes AND the vitally important spaces between notes.
You've got raw talent but your pitch needs work. You should practice songs over-emphasizing notes - making sure to enunciate every word completely. After some practice hitting exact pitch and full note values, THEN you can start making selections about word phrasing and altered enunciation.
To put it in guitar or piano terms, you're practicing your licks before you've mastered your scales. Give your voice the opportunity to be full-toned with complete word phrasing before you try to sound like Muddy or Junior.
Listen how carefully Muddy tries to hit these notes; how his phrasing is as fully melodic as possible. A very underrated singer, Muddy worked hard on pitch, tone and phrasing.
blues is a singing music form, and it started with instruments mimicking the voice.that`s why the harmonica is such a blues instrument,it is close to the voice.listen to your blues harp playing and scat sing the line you played and you`ll eventually sing blues like you play them. doittoit !
the voice is fine. its the notes your singing along with piano. piano has no "blue" microtonal notes. i suggest avoiding anything that cant be bent. listen to just old blues guitar & harmonica, sitar, anything turkish or iranian, and scottish bagpipes. hmm another tip dont sing through your nose thats typically country. as for ghetto talk it was my first language you do weird things like draw air in the back of your throat while talking like yeah is said YEH-AH the ah at the end is very short throat pop.its two sylabels said as one word. or true said TROO say CHUR with the corners of your mouth tight then freeze that face and say TROO. but i suggest not listening to anything limited to 12 note scale and listen to 17 note scale. like whitney houston when she goes off on a vocal solo the piano completely shuts up because shes singing notes that dont exist on a piano, but do on an indian tuned harmonium and a bagpipe. and practice your throat pops without a harmonica. when you play take the harp away and notice the weird things you do with your mouth to play blues then apply those mouth shapes and air manipulation into your singing and speech. you have a nice voice
@Joek18 you're absolutely right. Pitch needs work. Maybe this track is not worth 'over-analyzing' I clearly practiced to little, and just hit record. Nonetheless your advise is very helpful and makes perfect sense.
Singing a song without a good template (a version to model/copy) is very challenging. Another thing is the recording process, I remember having the track way to loud relative to the mic on my shity headphones. I hear some notes in this track that are so off, that wouldn’t happen if I’d just sang acoustic over the track. Enough with the excuses, you’re very right. Thanks for responding.
@Colman, yeah I work on that now and then. Good words. I especially find the 4 draw bend singing hard..I wander of the scale if I try that.
@billy_shines Thanks I’ll try your getto talk tips. Turkish music usually really gets on my nerves. I’ll try and find some Turkish blues.
hold your tongue and say- "my father shovels ashes at the shipyard". i do like me some Savoy Brown, they were an early influence on me. K. H., you are certainly not the first to have this dilemma. i can name some folks close to me who needed coaching badly, to drop "proper English" diction in favor of a looser, more slur-y style. my last wife did me a "favor" and "corrected" all my lyrics in 1 notebook once, to reflect proper 6th grade English writing and spelling. it was the beginning of the end.... ---------- http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
There is a guy I work with who is a trained musician. He plays guitar and has a great singing voice and is actually schooled in singing. Odd thing is that he is into some odd ball rock most times. Point being , he isn't into blues. Recently, in an effort to do something I liked he recorded himself playing and singing the Allman Brothers version of "One Way Out." He played all the instruments and sang. he sounded great, however something just wasn't right. It was his proper diction.
Where Greg Allman says " cuz, there's a man down there" just doesn't sound right when you say "BECAUSE, there's a man down there." ---------- Tommy
its not always dialect it changes all over the south. i speak florida umana go (i am going to leave) mayy-yelp-u? ( may i help you) i thought i was normal until i went to europe and couldnt be understood. but try this say "i aint got nobody" then say it through the harp. then wail on the harp awhile on draw bends imitating the voice by changing the shape of your mouth muscles. now take the harp away and say it using your mouth muscles like you were just playing while not breathing through the nose like when you hold smoke in and talk. surprise you have a new vocal style. this is why blues sounds like blues and not classical music. it was invented by people who didnt speak english and had developed different mouth muscles. if you play blues you got em, use em.
Thanks for the links billy_shines, got me grooving to some bad ass Turkish blues now. Yeah!
Yeah accent and language is an interesting thing. I can perceive the difference between New-Yorkish and LA, and South-south USA. But that’s about it. Here in Holland, if someone speaks with a heavy local accent a 100 miles away, I’ve a real hard time understanding. And it get’s worse every mile. At 120, they can call you anything they want.
I’ll give it a go billy_shines though I’d never hold smoke and talk!
I’m sorry for your lose jbone, but that sounds like on hell of a woman!
yeah utrechter dutch is hard. i noticed blues bands there singing words wrong. they were greatful for my corrections and explaining the little secrets things (mojo black, cat bone, sneaky pete) etc.
i even transposed lyrics for alot of them. i transposed cocaine habit blues for my freind oki and he was scratchin his head. i told him i could simplify and change the words but no he wanted the exact lead belly words. he ended up recording it with an effect that makes his voice sound like a little boy. this one welsh guy wanted to be a rapper i gave him ebonics lessons and gave up. got him into tom jones you know just to get the projection right. then told him to rap in a jamican or scouser accent. something he was more familiar with.
