My only experience playing live has been when I sat in with two local musicians (a singer/guitarist, and a OMB). I loved it and want to know how to get more opportunities and get the most out of it. I apologize for having so many questions, but I am eager to learn and I value this community's wisdom.
Comping: Should I only do fills and solos? Can I lower the volume and play something simple while the singer sings?
Etiquette: When is it ok to ask to sit in? I have seen the two aforementioned musicians numerous times and gotten to know them, so I felt comfortable asking, and they said yes.
Well, Kim Wilson is going to be playing at a dive bar here in beautiful Costa Mesa tomorrow. (5pm at the Tiki Bar for SoCal folks! Come on down, it's gonna be a party!)
Can I ask to sit in? I don't want to be crossing the line somehow. Does it help that my musician friend knows Kim Wilson?
Assuming you're serious, No, don't ask Kim Wilson to sit in. Kim Wilson asks you. Etiquette? Great question. Harp players have a (deserved) bad reputation. We can buy one for a minimum amount of money in the right key and sound marginal with very little experience. The result, too many times, looks like a drunk taking the microphone. We have to overcome the eye rolling reaction that can come with "I'm a harp player". I know I go too far with this issue but the way I handle sitting in is first, I know what band I want to sit in with. That would be because they can play. If sitting in is going to go well then I will watch them over the course of a whole show -without any harps available. I will get some music from them, cd's, youtube or I record some that night (simple recording on my phone). I will introduce myself to the band, whoever, but more likely the guitar player because they usually are the one we have to negotiate musical "territory" with. I wouldn't normally sit in a harp players band, they already have one. Good friends are, of course, an exception. My conversations with the band are mostly about their music, influences, gear... blah blah shop talk fun. This conversation is about blues cred with a subtext of "I am not a hack". Eventually one of us, hopefully them, will raise the question about sitting in. I will also mention the gear I would/could/should use. Next I will practice their tunes, polish 5, proritize 3 and show up as soon as possible. Say hi, eventually. They'll ask you to sit in. I'd mention a tune or 2 I'd like to do. Ok?
Be conservative on stage, LISTEN, and yes comp but be careful about comping as rhythm, think of comping more as fill or horn lines -less IS more. Yeah, I take this a little far but I try to do everything I care about really well.
Last Edited by on Dec 11, 2011 5:08 AM
unless you are a known entity, no one is gonna ask you to sit in. even if you wear a t-shirt that says "i know the progressions and know not to step on the singer or other's solos", you will not be asked.
you gotta do the asking. but definitely wait until the 1st set is over. be casual about it. act like you've done this before. AND MAKE SURE YOU CAN HANG/KEEP UP WITH THEM! you do not want to be the cause of a train wreck. and if they say no, be polite and thank them. suggest perhaps next time. compliment them after the next set and also at the end.
i usually tell them i just wanna play some comping in the background. i promise them i wont embarrass them. i'll sit down after 1 song. usually i end up being asked to stay for 2 or 3 songs and a solo usually gets tossed to me for all 3 songs. this brings up the "how-to jam" part which is another thread. if they go into a song i do not know or or key i am unprepared for, i stand in the back enjoying the music. (i have gotten to where i will tell the band what keys i can play in.)
as for kim, go ahead- ask him! there is that very slim chance he will say sure. maybe if you have a harp with you when you ask and give him a little sample if he is on the fence would tip the decision in your favor. i never ask a "star" to sit in. i go to hear them play. and they are gonna be out of my league.
Well, I hate to be the dickhead here... Let's get this right, you have only played live with a couple of folkies? I gather that from the questions you ask, this is virgin territory. If you have to ask whether you can noodle around during vocals, (KIm Wilson's vocals!) you are treading water already.
I think its best if you sit on the sidelines. One thing to think about, why would a paying audience want to see you "get an opportunity?"
Sometimes we learn a lot more sitting on our hands and listening then doing. You have an opportunity to learn from one of the best living touring players, as a number of others in the audience will be doing the same (the first 2 rows of people will be in the same camp as you- harp players) Enjoy yourself, enjoy the music, and learn.
IMO you should do what your heart tells you. When I was starting out I walked up to players more famous than Kim Wilson and asked to sit in. Often times they let me and would spend 1:1 time with me, invite me to visit them at their home (often hundreds or thousands of miles away and I did), join their band. My heart was honest and music my life. They felt that. I will always do the same for others with that same vibe. On the other hand, I have said no to about 99% of the unknown players that have asked to sit in because they didn't have that vibe. Take everything you read on the net with a grain of salt, digest it, and then go with your gut! Life is short. There is no time to waste when passion has your soul. Walter
PS: for the record, I remember when Kim was sitting in the audience hoping to sit in with Mark Naftlin at his blue monday gig. I was hoping for the same as well. We both got asked up. Everybody starts out sitting in the audience hoping to get on that stage someday. ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
you goin to tug on Supermans Cape, you best be ready to fly on your own in case , cause he goin WAY up there...and it is a long fall, but in a short time , which makes the bottom a hard place to land. That said---If you ARE ready... then I go with Walter--got to do it sometime...but be prepared for a wake up call..and a reality check
It is not the Harpstar/Frontman that will rip you if you are not.. they are usually very gracious,, but as 6SN7 said,, the first 2 or 3 rows are going to be harp players,, and many of them VERY good... thats a tough audience...
@Groyster: Oh yes, I am going to meet him first. I will have my friend introduce me. And I'll ask Kim to sign my "What's the Word" LP. I think that should give me some credibility with him. Clearly I know and love his music and went to some effort to get and bring the album.
@Littoral: Interesting response. I am nervous about crossing a line, but I also think, so what? If I want to have a chance to play, I will have to ask. The worst that could happen is he says no, right?
(Also, all that preparation just to sit in! That is not why I play music. If it works for you, great, but I'm a bit closer to Walter Tore's method. Just tell me what key you're in and I'll let the music do the rest.)
@6SN7: I'm the dickhead because I don't care about the rest of the audience! I just want to blow my horn! If the audience likes it, great, if not, it'll be over in under 5 minutes anyways.
However, I didn't consider that there are going to be a bunch of other harp players there! I always feel like there are so few of us. That changes things, to realize that I'm not the only guy who wants to get up on the stage.
I'm still going to follow my heart and ask, though. (Thanks Walter!) I may not be the only one who wants to sit in, but I may be the only one bold enough to ask.
If I do get a chance to sit in, I would be very deferential to Kim or anyone else singing, and to the band. I don't think asking about comping shows I'm treading water; rather, it shows that I have thought about what I'm doing and want to improve and want to be prepared. (My current comfort level is not to play at all during vocals.)
@RJJ: I would love to hear a critique of my playing from 20 quality players! I could learn a lot!
Last Edited by on Dec 11, 2011 8:10 AM
I apologize if this is veering away from civil discussion. I mean no disrespect. Clearly we are very different people, and it's ok to disagree.
That said: No, you're not going to do that with Aaron Rogers. Based on your previous post, it sounds more like you would show up to a junior college team's games for an entire season, memorize their playbook, and then wait for them to ask you to play.
That's not me. I'm bold enough to ask for what I want - and sometimes I get it.
By the way, I wonder if anyone from this community is going to be at the show. Surely I'm not the only one in Southern California? If anyone comes by, say hello! I'll be the Jewish kid clutching a gaudy T Birds record.
One other thing to remember- many of the blues greats only knew a couple songs and got famous via it. This forum has a very deep current of mastery, gizmos, and thinking to it. That is cool, but there is another way to make lovely music. It isn't about how much you know, or how much technique you have. It is about how you can convey what is inside you outward and having people relate to it. I am about the song. I dig harp alot but to feature a harp all night would not hold my interest unless SBW or 1 of his peers came back and even then, those guys were more about the song than the harp.
Often times most people in the audience were more proficient from a technical point than the blues greats were. Clapton, Beck, Page, Alman, are a few that come righ to my mind. Yet these guys worshiped the simple honesty those guys put out and how they owned that little piece of musical techique that made them so reconizable.
I remember playing outside on the lawn of Kean College in NJ with my funky acoustic guitar and harp on a rack. The action on the guitar was so high you couldn't make a sound above the 3 fret. I played that thing often 10+ hours a day, doing the couple chords I knew. I let my voice to other chords, but I didn't know how to play them on the guitar yet. People dug it and one day a bunch of guys sat down and rocked out until I stopped. They asked me to open thier show that night at the college. I had no idea of who they were. When I walked in the hall it was packed with close to a thousand people. It turned out I opened for the dead kennedys. I did that 1-2 chord thing for an hour and the place went crazy. I had been playing the guitar for a few months. When you are ready, the light goes on in the soul and I am thankful mine continues to go on way before my skills are up to what most consider acceptable. Too many people over anaylize things to the point they become quite uninteresting ........ Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
If you don't get to sit in simple play along from the audience as Kim plays. Several on this forum have admitted to doing it. Great way to meet people and I'm sure Kim and the audience will love it! You may even get a nickname. It eludes me at the moment.
I cannot imagine asking someone at Kim's level to sit in. Maybe at a small private event or something and the guy paying Kim requests it.
I saw Clapton last year and the only person he let sit in was Vince Gill..see what I mean.
@Tuckster: No, my skills are probably NOT as large as my balls. But I'm alright. No one would have to cover their ears and some will probably enjoy it.
@harpdude: Are you being sarcastic about playing from the audience? That seems WAY more rude than asking to sit in! If I'm sitting in, at most I am interfering with one song. Why would Kim and the audience actually love that?
Re: Clapton. Kim Wilson is not Eric Clapton - to us Kim is a huge deal, but to 99% of people he is unknown. Clapton does not play at the Tiki Bar in Costa Mesa for 100 people. And I don't have a friend who can introduce me to Clapton.
(I'm guessing I have a very slim, but non-zero chance of sitting in tonight.)
@jdblues- Not to pussyfoot around it and to perhaps give you a reality check. You ask for opinions and say you value those of this "community" and want to learn and then you dismiss anything that doesn't sit with what you already believed. You might want to think about that.
You might want to take note of two things Walter said. He refuses 99% of players who ask, probably because he can spot a hack a mile away. And 2nd, when he sat in with Mark Naftlin it was because he was asked, not the one doing the asking.
Your only experience playing live is with a couple of acoustic players, yet you think it's "bold" to attempt to sit in, on the same instrument no less, with one of the greatest of all time during a professional engagement and then state that you don't care whether the audience, who paid good money to hear Kim-not you, likes it or not. And your right, any player who does not care about his audience, let alone the paying audience of the man who's territory he thinks he should be allowed to share just because he was "bold" enough to ask, is a dickhead.
You think showing up with his album and asking him to sign it is a "obvious" sign of your credibility as a player? No, it's just a sign that you're a fan. That does not in anyway equate with ability to play an instrument. This my friend is not "bold" it's called all hat and no cattle. It really illustrates your, admitted, lack of experience.
There's an oft over used phrase called, "paying your dues." I suggest you learn this concept, and I do mean learn it, which lessons are learned by doing, then look back on what you wrote here. Not too worry when you feel like an ass. We've all done it at one time or another. Part of that dues thing. ---------- LSC
Harpdude is being sarcastic - the nickname is Gus.
You say you don't care about the audience. Fair enough, but Kim does. They are his customers, they pay for his house and car and put the fine food on his table. Like you they will have paid to see Kim - not you.
If you want to improve your skills go to some open jams.
If you want to feed your ego by saying you've played with Kim Wilson - then try and meet him backstage after the show and ask to blow some harp together then. There's far more chance of that happening than him asking some rookie unknown player onstage.
i have to say after reading all the posts on this topic i have changed my mind. i really like what walter had to say. i have more respect for that man than he'll ever know and i think he's right... go for it...if that's what your heart is telling you to do.
Apologies for the massive amount of text. I hope my skills with the enter key make it easy to read for those who care.
@walter: I love the way you put it. A light in the soul. I've only been playing 2 years, so I'm probably deluding myself, but I believe that I've learned enough that I'm able to put a little piece of my soul through the harp, where it comes out sounding pretty good. I hope that if I asked you to sit in, I would be in the 1%! But I certainly wouldn't hold it against you if I wasn't.
@LSC: You have a great point, and I am reconsidering asking. When I try to put myself in your shoes and read what I wrote, it's pretty clear that I'm overeager, haven't paid my dues, and might be very obnoxious by asking. Of course, it depends on what Kim is like. Maybe he remembers being an eager kid and would be willing to encourage a young player.
(It is very persuasive of you to appeal to Walter's ethos. Like clyde, I greatly admire Walter. I posted this thread primarily because I hoped he would respond.)
I am going to feel the vibe and, of course, I will ask my musician friends at the show for their advice. If I do ask, it would be in an unassuming way, like: "I'm sure you get this all the time and that you're not interested, but I've just gotta ask! Any chance I can sit in?"
You're right, bringing an LP is not about my credibility as a player, it's about my credibility as a fan. And Kim Wilson could make this fan pretty damn happy by letting me play up there for 2 minutes. That might be something he's interested in, I don't know and probably won't if I don't ask. For Kim this is about the audience, that's why it's up to him. And he could really please this member of the audience by letting me play!
@MrVery: You're right about feeding my ego. But I do honestly want to learn. I will take your advice and ask if I can blow with him after the show (assuming no sitting in). Ego aside, I would be thrilled to sit in with ANYONE who plays today. An opening band, Kim's band without Kim, a guy playing guitar in the parking lot, whatever.
By the way, I am still hoping for Adam Gussow to respond with a discussion of the way sitting in works in the blues community and its history and whatnot.
This thread has focused on Kim Wilson only because that's an acute concern, but I am still very interested in learning more about sitting in and comping in general.
jdblues: thanks! the old school way of sitting in is long gone for the most part. Sunday afternoon/evenings and Mondays were the days when the blues clubs would have their jams. These jams were attended by the top pros in the area, and the ones that were touring through with a night off. You of course could go right in and up to the guy running the jam (oftentimes it took many visits to figure out who really was running it :-) ) and say can I play. If he was in a good mood he would just say no and if in a not so good mood, curse you out real good. You had to establish yourself on the local scene before you could get on one of those stages and then was dependent on just how established you were. You could see guys like Lowell Fulsom, Sonny Rhodes, John Lee Hooker, sitting in the audience. They came to play but often had to wait. The only guy who never waited was DR Wild Willie Moore. He was a bay area sax man that would enter clubs playing and go right up on the stage. that was his MO and he earned the right to do this. You could easily sit for years in these jams and never get up to play.
Today it is all sterile- sign up, pay your door charge, and get to play. The jam scene of this style has pretty much killed the old school ones. The new model means white folks with money in their pockets will lug out their state of the art loud gear, play the star for a day, and usually bring in a bunch of their friends to drink. The clubs make more money on these than they ever did on the old school jams. the seasoned players, which made up a big part of the audience, never paid to get in and didn't spend deep at the bar.
Columbus blues alliance has a regular jam but I will never go. I went once and it was so loud and full of mediocre players that I left real quick. I remember I played the traditional acoustic blues festival with mooreland/arbuckle and honeyboy edwards. They asked us all to go the after hours jam (the festival took place in a hotel). I went over there with moreland/arbuckle and we stood on the side of the stage for an hour while drunken locals made loud noise. They never asked us up and we went back to our rooms. I will stay home on sundays till things change!
It is kind of like these jam camps of today. You pay to hang. It use to be you got to know the players and they invited you home and you learned via being an apprentice with no money exchanged. I realize today's pros are poorer than ever and need to do these things to survive. Also, no ever sold records or merchandise off the stage because you made enough $ to not have to invent this. Now bands make more on this than they do from the club oftentimes. Gas, food, lodging have all gone up exponentially, and the pay and amount of clubs to play has droped equally. I am no longer dependent on music for a living and am so thankful I missed this new model. I will always have an open door for someone with the passion and respect and no fee chart on the wall. You are always welcome.
clyde: Thanks! I have always spoke my mind and followed my dreams. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Wow, I have never been to one of those sterile jams. That sounds horrible. My ideal jam is more like a party. Doesn't matter much if I get to play as long as we're having a good time. I don't want to be purchasing 15 minutes of stage time for the going rate, like I'm going to Walmart.
Edit: "I have always spoke my mind and followed my dreams." I think this is why we love you!
Last Edited by on Dec 11, 2011 11:17 AM
thanks. I added to my last post some. I miss sunday afternoons for those old jams and then the blue monday ones. Most pro players today have to be much more aware of what they say and how they treat people because the whole pie that once was, is now just crumbs. One slip and they will be mighty hungry. That is why most don't post on these forums because somebody will tear into what they say and before you know a bunch of people think they are jerks. Walter
PS: I was a part of that old jam to new sign up pay to play one transition. A club I played a couple times a month asked me to run a sunday afternoon jam. I thought great! Wrong. A ton of guys with mesa boogie amps (I was living in the bay area) and sledgehammmer drummers came out. I got to keep the door. I made easy 3-500 dollars for technically doing nothing. THat is what my whole band would make on a weekend. It sounded so good till I did it. I lasted about 2 times. I kicked people out, turned down amps, and basically pissed off a lot of hackers with money in their pockets. the owner told me to accomodate them or quit. I quit. ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
jdblues, This is a good thread. I realize it's a little personal for you but the topic is important and others could learn from it. So, for the sake of developing the thread I'd appreciate it if you would ask Kim to sit in. Let us know how it goes. And, you wrote: "... but I am still very interested in learning more about sitting in and comping in general". I post with my cell so the many careful suggestions I offered were based on 35 years of serious commitment to harp, not 2. I also addressed comping with specific suggestions. You had no use for any of it. Ok, it's clear that you'll do what you want to do anyway. But again, I'd appreciate hearing how it goes.
@Littoral: Upon rereading all of your posts, I feel humbled. I would sound "marginal."
On the first reading, I didn't even understand that your advice - hear them play, listen to their music, practice their songs - was about comping!
Now that I understand, I realize that was why the two local musicians let me sit in. I have gotten to know them by seeing their shows regularly for the past several months. The songs I sat in for have been things like "Kind Hearted Woman" and "You Don't Have to Go." Stuff I have heard a million times before.
I hope you see now that I am gaining something by reflecting upon the advice of the community, and not just those who parrot what I want to hear.
Going with my heart, though, I still think I could handle "You Ain't Nothin' But Fine." It is only 1:49 on the "What's the Word" album, and I honestly want to hear it as a fan. I have NO idea if he plays that song live, but I love it and have listened to it probably 100 times in the past month.
Would it be ok to request to sound marginal for 1:49? It would make my day - and take something off my bucket list - for only 2:00 of the audience's time.
Will report back after the show! Edit: The show starts at 5:00 pm. The song is so short that I could practice it A LOT before then. I have it on repeat right now.
Last Edited by on Dec 11, 2011 12:00 PM
if you are letting other folks determine whether you should follow what seems to be one of your dreams, you deserve to be sitting in the third row when kim asks the 1st 2 rows to jam on stage. nothing wrong with asking rodgers to play catch, either. worst case is he
drills one off your skull and drops you like a rock. you STILL have a great story for the rest of your life!
isnt there a saying- nothing ventured, nothing gained?
One way to get invited up on stage is to play open mics. There are a couple reasons for this- first, there are more acts that are likely to give you a shot, second, and more importantly, you get to show them what you've got before they invite you up. Sign up early and let them see you play. Open mic-ers are usually a good bunch and if you do a good job with a band there you've got a better chance getting an invite at one of their regular shows.
There are usually two types of acts at open mics- people starting out and more experienced bands trying to promote 'real' shows. You might get a chance to form a band with the first group and if you do a good job and are friendly with the more experienced players you may get asked to sit in when they spot you in the audience at their shows.
My problem is always a matter of energy and preparation. I go up, do three songs and then I let go of all my energy. Then someone asks if I want to come up and play on songs I don't know and I panic. I've just done a good set and I worry that if I go up and screw it up I'll wreck all the good will I built up! But I'm a worrier like that. I turned down playing something behind a poet one night. I eventually got up behind him with most of the band another night. I've turned down a couple offers to jam. Once I get off the stage I'm like a guy who just had sex- I want to curl up and sleep. :) My band is doing a show later this month though with one of the bands I chickened out on going up behind. It will be our first real show where we play more than a handful of songs. We got the gig because we got talking after a show. We liked their music; they liked ours. They had more connections. Hopefully we can build up a reputation and get our own gigs and return the favor. ---------- Nate Facebook Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
Aaron Rodgers is here TODAY at 5pm. I am still going to keep hanging out with the college team and learning their playbook.
Listen to it - it is hardly playing harp at all except for the solo at the end. The version embedded below is 3:00. The one I had been listening to (off the What's the Word) is 1:49 with no solo.
I'm just smart enough to know that I can't hang if they play it like this. So I would just shut up after the part I know I can do, unless it goes to somewhere more comfortable for me.
I am a bit put off by the idea of rehearsing this song and just copying the simple riff Kim plays. But if I am lucky enough to be given a solo, I couldn't copy his solo if I wanted to!
Also, I realize now that I don't intend to play AT ALL while Kim sings. I love the way he sings and would prefer to just listen.
I've never sat in with a band and my only experience playing live is in front of my school (I'm a teacher) and jaming with friends and family in front of small family and friend audiences, who in general should be fairly supportive :o)
I was at a blues festival this year and a girl I was with, being quite drunk approached a band as they were getting ready to play, saying I was amazing and they should hear me play.
They then asked if I had a harp on me and for me to play a little, this was outside the venue so no audience really so I thought what the hell, a good chance to get some feedback. They quized me a little on what keys I would need if they played in various keys I answered correctly. They then had a chat and said they would call me out of the audience to play for a song. I thought they were kidding and just being polite but they persisted saying the audience would love it.
I was having none of it, total stage fright and an awareness of my actual ability so I politly declined, thanked them for their support and kind offer.
So I guess some bands like people sitting in more than others, so no harm in asking and maybe the audience would like it, I mean if the star of the show allows you on stage that's got to count for something.
For me at that time it just wasn't for me maybe another time I would jump at the chance. Also you say you've been only playing two years I've been playing about a year and a half and at the time I got asked I'd been learning for about a year. I'm sure I read somewhere that Charlie Musselwhite got his big break when by his own admission he didn't know a thing.
Good luck whatever happens and let us know how you get on. cheers Greg.
---------- Living the dream and learning the blues one little trouble at a time.
"Kim Wilson is not Eric Clapton - to us Kim is a huge deal, but to 99% of people he is unknown. Clapton does not play at the Tiki Bar in Costa Mesa for 100 people. And I don't have a friend who can introduce me to Clapton."
Having been a professional musician for more than 40 years, I actually resent it when somebody I don't know asks to sit in on a gig; I allowed people I didn't know to sit in several different times when I was younger, and it always turned into a trainwreck. I play quite well (people pay me to do it), but I never ask to sit in with a band at their gig; I think it's presumptuous. If I do sit in, it's because I've been asked. The best way to gain the experience you need is to go to open blues jams. I don't know where in Southern California you live, but a friend of mine, Cadillac Zac, runs a blues jam every Monday night at the Maui Sugar Mill Saloon in Encino that is not quite the circle-jerk that Walter describes. Sure, he gets a few wankers, but he tries to weed them out.
@timeistight: That's not what I said. It's really more about environment/venue than it is about the particular musician.
@bluzmn: I would love to go to the jam in Encino. I will check it out next time I'm in the area. I am in the middle of Orange County (Irvine) and would love if you could point me in the right direction for a blues jam closer to home.
I have decided not to ask to sit in. I will just introduce myself and get my record signed, maybe ask if he can give me a brief pointer after the show.
EDIT: For those who may think I have allowed this forum to crush my dreams, that is not so. I'm still going to do it eventually. If I keep on going to Kim's gigs every time he's in town, some day not too far off I may get to sit in.
Last Edited by on Dec 11, 2011 2:46 PM
good for you jdblues! Enjoy the show and get out and meet as many players as you can. In time it will be your time. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
"I have decided not to ask to sit in. I will just introduce myself and get my record signed, maybe ask if he can give me a brief pointer after the show."
Now that is the smartest thing you've said the whole thread. There may be hope for you yet.
RE:bluzmn- I've been getting paid to play since before Moses was a baby as well. I have to say I don't resent it when people that are not known to me come up and ask to sit in. I usually just say, "Sorry, the club doesn't like for us to do that."
Once however I had a kid come up and want to play guitar. He didn't have anything with him and wanted to use our gear. Our guitar player was a bit funny about such things and that's what I told the kid and tried to blow him off.
He came up again after the 2nd set and asked again, quite insistent. At which point the bartender says, "Uh, actually he's killer." The kid would not take "No" for an answer and says to me, "If you don't let me sit in, one day you'll hear me play and regret it." So I told him, "Okay, if you have the balls to say that to me you can play my guitar and use my amp but if you're crap I'll yank you so fast your head will still be wondering where your ass went to."
So we bring the kid up. He saddles up and whacks the volume up on my amp. He then proceeded to absolutely slay it. I mean he just handed our guitar player his head. And our guy was pretty damn good. That's another reason some guys are reluctant to let strangers sit in. You might just get torched.
The locals all knew this kid, 17 years old BTW, and the fact we let him do his thing got them all on our side. We were asked back several times after that and always packed the place, though I never let the damn kid up again.
This band on stage situation may be the only theatrical setting in which 'sitting in' is even remotely possible, and for that we should be grateful, and genuinely humble and circumspect.
Although I am a neophyte still with respect to the harp, I do look forward one day to offering the audience some pleasure through my harp. I have been privileged to have had a different theatrical experience, performing successfully before audiences at one time exceeding 5000 people. That required many years and much sweat, blood, tears, study, practice and rehearsal in preparation. I am willing to put in a proportional effort preparing with the harp.
However, I have also already had a few experiences going out and playing my harp impromptu in public. At the beach, at the local carry-out deli, at the horse riding stable, at work, camping in the not so desolate wilderness. Not busking, as there was no implied expectation of donations, but freely given entertainment. These have always garnered positive responses, and so I have been encouraged.
I suggest such experiences might well provide the kind of early feedback you might be hoping for sitting in with a professional band, and avoid the kind of disaster that might spoil your rapport with the professionals, while helping you discover and perfect your skills.
Busking could follow, and then you might be 'discovered'.
For what its worth, in my opinion its like a lot of things in life. The first rule is that you need to know when to break the rules.
Say you do get to sit in; maybe it'll be such total crap that you wish the floor would open up and swallow you (been there, done that), but that may be the most important learning experience of your life.
One time I was asked to sit in, I was overseas, badly jet lagged and exhausted. The guy was a genuine Chicago Blues man (living in far north queensland its not the kind of person I often get to meet). My friend introduced me as a "famous Australian Harp player' and I was so reluctant I was ready to just sneak away. I would describe myself as 'adequate' on a good night, when I'm with my band and know the material. Luckily it was a good audience; they were cheering me as I was just starting to warm up and check the mic and volume.
Jeffro was very gracious, ( a fantastic performer who can really sing AND play guitar) and from the moment he said "Sweet Home Chicago in E' we just clicked. We played an hour set and he was grinning like a fool, saying stuff like 'That's what I'm talkin about 'etc etc. Reckoned he hadn't had so much fun in ages. I played like I had never played before, improvising, pulling riffs out of the air and having the night of my life.
He said if I ever came to Chicago that I should go and play at 'Legends' and that I'd blow them away; I said I wouldn't dare; he said' you got the chops man'.
Needless to say it was a great boost to my confidence, and a milestone in my playing.
Would I ask to sit in with Kim Wilson? Not a chance, but that's me. ---------- Lucky Lester
I asked Bob Margolin to let me sit in when I was 19. He was cool and I played. I was not ready, but it inspired me. I was just a dumb kid, though. The guys who ask are the guys who don't know the game. 1) whoever it is on that stage, they got the gig. It's their room whether they're awesome or they stink. Asking just reeks of bad taste, and/or massive attention-needing insecurity. 2) If you want to sit in, you must say the right things and get invited. "what kind of harp do you play?" ain't gonna. cut it. 3) Unless you're sure you're at least semi-pro, when you do sit in, tread lightly. Stay the hell off the vocals, and just wait for your solo. 4) If you are semi or pro, be cool abou sitting in. Unless the front specifically asks for a long rest, don take over the show. Play a tune, thank the band and go back to your seat. 5) refer back to number 1. And please don't embarrass us all by asking Kim to sit in. ---------- 12gagedan's YouTube Channel
Kim Wilson signed my record and we talked a bit. I asked him about a 3rd pos lick he played in his solo for Telephone Blues. He said he's a bad teacher, but he kind of tried to explain it anyways. He asked me if I had a harp with me, but quickly told me not to play it. Instead he just pointed at the holes and talked about playing. I was curious why he asked me not to play it, and he said, "It's not cool in public. If it were just the two of us, it would be different." I don't really get why, but so it goes.
Also, a little anecdote: Outside they were selling jambalaya. I got some and asked for hot sauce. The woman serving food told me to ask Junior Watson, who was in the audience. I found him and asked if he had hot sauce. He pulled a bottle of habanero sauce out of his jacket pocket and poured some onto my jambalaya. It was delicious.
@eharp: Not once. When he started playing, I just thought, why mess with that?
@lor: I play impromptu in public almost every day, actually, just cause I like to play while I walk. Walking without playing feels like a waste of time when I'm passionate about learning an instrument that fits in my pocket.
Thanks for the follow-up. Yeah, tone is it. That aligns with much of Walters "from the heart" message - not quite the same as free spirit. I, like 12guagedan, was too eager when (1979) I broke out my harp in the audience and played with the band -no less than the original Powerhouse with Pierre Beauregard on harp. My friends at the table loved it. Pierre was diplomatic and told me on break not to do it again. I felt like a dumbass. Lesson learned? Not really, I didn't need a lesson to figure that one out. I have applied the experience to other contexts and that counts as learning. A question, jdblues " He asked me if I had a harp with me, but quickly told me not to play it. Instead he just pointed at the holes and talked about playing. I was curious why he asked me not to play it, and he said, "It's not cool in public. If it were just the two of us, it would be different. I don't really get why, but so it goes."
I agree, that doesn't make sense. Why would he ask you if you had a harp? Especially if he followed it with the point not to play it. Doesn't add up.
Glad you came to your senses JD. I have a hard time getting up the nerve to ask "The Brewhounds" if I can sit in with them at "The Dive Bar" in "Sticksville" in front of 20 people.....Kim Wilson ??? You've got to be kidding....hey if Gussow ever comes to your area ask him to sit in...see how that goes.
"When he started playing, I just thought, why mess with that?"
exactly right. one of the first times i saw jason play he called someone up to play harp, and i thought that'd be really cool if someday he'd ask me. over time, i realized what a terrible idea that would be. it's his gig, his livelihood, his reputation. it's only good to bring someone up if it's gonna make the show better. and nothing i do on harp is gonna make the show better than him playing it.
years later, i did sit in with him on a few occasions. but each of these times was at the fundraisers we ran for our youth group Habitat trips (i was youth advisor at our church). and in these particular instances, it did make the show better. not because i was any good, but because of who i was an my relationship with the crowd. i'd play one song, manage not to embarrass myself, the crowd loved it. back to my seat to enjoy the rest of the show.
I'll bet he didn't want you to play because as soon as you hit the first note,there would be a half dozen harp players come up,trying to play for Kim Wilson. Like sharks smelling blood in the water.
BTW You made the right choice. Years from now,you'll think back on the moment without cringing.
I don't think I've ever asked to sit-in with a band. Ok, I did once as sort of a joke in offering to play with the Tedeschi-Trucks Band on Twitter, but it was in jest after someone following me asked if I they had asked me to sit-in yet.
I've sat in with Jason Ricci and the New Blood twice, but both times he asked me up. Heck, I only had a harp the first time because he told me to bring one (he was going to teach me about gapping for overblows - this was probably 7 or so years ago), and the second time I used a Low F Filisko of Chris Michalek's as I didn't bring one with me. That same weekend, Chris invited me to sing and play with his band (about 5 years ago).
Even with the local bands, I've never invited myself to sit in, nor do I usually bring a harp with me. I live in MN, and would not want harps sitting in my car for the night when it is -10 out.
About once a year a band coming to town will email asking if I want to come out and jam/play near my home. I don't always take them up on that, even if I go to the show. This usually happens because they want people in seats (like me) and think I might bring a slew of friends with me (I am a harp player...I don't have friends).
I could go jam with bands in the Cities 2-3 nights a week, but that is an hour or more from my house and I tend to lay low when not gigging. Gas, food, and sometimes a hotel room make it an expensive trip.
The only time I've ever played drunk was a gig where I was asked to sit in. Not a good decision, but I at least had the brains to not overplay and only take one solo.
Yeah, I bet it's not fun to constantly be bothered by harmonica players. I'm grateful to get even a little advice from Kim Wilson.
I did make the right choice, and I appreciate that this community's advice led me there. Some of you surely think I'm an idiot, and you're right! I'd like to think this thread shows I'm at least smart enough to know that, and that I can stand to learn a lot from those with more experience.
You had an idea, thought it through, and made an informed decision in the best interest of you and those around you. That shows more intelligence than 2/3 the people I interact with on a regular basis.
