harponica
17 posts
Nov 26, 2011
10:30 AM
|
What more evidence than the B-Radical 's vertical milled reed's for longer life is needed to start a petition for urging other harp companys to do the same.
|
nacoran
4988 posts
Nov 26, 2011
12:05 PM
|
I think you'd need some proof that it actually worked as intended, in the form of a controlled study on reed longevity, followed by a cost benefit analysis. That would include seeing if people will pay enough more for longer lasting reeds to offset the loss of new sales when people's harmonicas start lasting longer.
Harrison was supposedly doing other things too. I seem to remember hearing something about cryogenic treating on the reeds, and of course the screws instead of rivets. I've seen video of the riveting process used on most harps, and I'm figuring screws take a lot longer to put on.
Maybe a cheap first step for companies would be to stock the right sized screws and nuts and offer them with replacement reeds. Maybe they could do small runs of 'superior' reeds you could by. The next step might be custom harmonica kits. You get a set of reeds, a set of reed screws, normal screws, a set of plates, a set of custom covers (or blanks you could take to the local laser engraver) and a custom comb, and they send you the parts (with an option for some tools too, at a discounted price).
A company like Seydel that uses more than one material for reeds might even offer different reed choices. It would mean they wouldn't have to hire specialized labor to put together harps, which would keep the price down. A customizer could even offer a package like that.
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
|
nacoran
4994 posts
Nov 26, 2011
10:29 PM
|
I seem to recall there was someone way way back (maybe 1930's) who tried vertical milled reeds, so I doubt Harrison was able to get a patent for that part of it. I think prior art exists on screw on reeds too. I'm not sure on the cryogenic treatment, but I saw something on Beyond 2000 years ago about treating musical instruments that way, and in fact I had a discussion with Buddha once and it seems he had access to a machine to do it at one point. He got the idea from Beyond 2000 too (I think it might have been one of the forum Skype chats, but it might have been in a thread). The machines are crazy expensive though, so unless you could buy time on someone else's machine it probably would be cost prohibitive. Since Beyond 2000 aired before 2000 even if it was one of the last episodes it's likely any patent on that would have expired, or be just about to.
So my non-lawyer legal opinion would be that anyone who could figure it out the details could do it.
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
|
harponica
19 posts
Nov 27, 2011
3:21 PM
|
AM i the only one feeling I've been ripped off for so many years with horizontal milled reeds in my harps,now that we have an example of verticle milled reeds with the B-Radical.Its not an illusion ,its more like collusion!
|
harponica
20 posts
Nov 27, 2011
11:48 PM
|
I'm looking for full disclosure why reeds are milled horizontal and not vertical.It wouldn;t have something to do with profit would it?
|
MrVerylongusername
2084 posts
Nov 28, 2011
1:19 AM
|
Of course it does.
Vertical milling of reeds would require new tooling in the factory and would decrease sales. Harp companies aren't charities and consumers are already grumbling about harp prices.
|
harponica
21 posts
Nov 29, 2011
12:27 AM
|
I'm looking for simple convincing facts why companys were convinced horizontal milling was the way to go.Surely it must be for all these years to pass by with no change.How could we doubt the results of endless hours of research and development of these large companys?I'm having a hard time sleeping at nights over this,thanks alot Brad.
|
MrVerylongusername
2085 posts
Nov 29, 2011
2:19 AM
|
They didn't have a decision to make - it is technically more challenging to mill the reeds lengthwise. The harp companies simply did what it was possible to do economically with the technology of the time.
The big harp companies do put a lot of time into research as does any other manufacturer. That's how we get new products and improvements to old ones.
Rick Epping posted to harp-l stating that Hohner had tried cryo treating reeds and found it to be uneconomic. i.e the improvement did not justify the increased costs. http://www.harp-l.org/pipermail/harp-l/2008-September/msg01077.html Most likely the same probably applies to milling.
This is not some great conspiratorial consumer rip-off, it is about profit margins: the trade off between the cost of manufacture and the cost to the consumer. That's the bit Brad got wrong and I'm sure the big harp companies followed his progress with great interest. If he had been able to do successfully what he set out to achieve - essentially make custom quality instruments on an industrial scale - it might have been a game changer. The reality was that he only demonstrated that the kind of quality he insisted on came at a far greater financial and time cost than he anticipated in his business plans.
Maybe when Hohner's or Suzuki's current factory tooling needs replacing, it might change the economics. Until then, just learn to accept what you won't change. Get some sleep at night or worry about things that actually matter.
|
harponica
22 posts
Nov 29, 2011
11:37 PM
|
Let me try this approach,yo any of you B-Radical owners experiencing problems with your vertical milled reeds?Report in please for your monthly update.
|
HarpNinja
1947 posts
Nov 30, 2011
12:54 PM
|
Other than hersey, what evidence is there that the vetical reeds last longer? Your concerned about being ripped off for companies not using vertical milling, but not that fact that you can't even get a B-Rad and countless people paid for the harps and never got them?
I'll gladly take a $65 Crossover with its non-vertically milled reeds knowing I'll actually get it in my hands over giving someone $180 for nothing. ;)
I've seen several people asking about replacing reeds (most recently on a harmonica Facebook page). IMO, people who abuse their harps are going to tear through reeds no matter what.
I would guess that any significant changes in quality are so minor compared to the actual effort and improvement that it is low on the list of things to improve.
Me thinks Brad went that route because he could. He hadn't invested in a machine that punched them out by width already.
If you (the generic plural you) are running through reeds quickly, I'd suggest gapping your harps tighter and learning to play without so much breath force. With the tighter gaps, you'll choke the reeds and know you are playing too hard...a much cheaper and easier solution then the B-Rad.
Note that I do have a bias towards any unproven claims regarding things like the B-Rad. IMHO, they haven't been around long enough to be tested against many of the claims made about them.
I go back to that fact that coverplates aside, you can get one hell of a harp from a lot of people for $180-200. Much of the "hype" around those harps, besides cover plates and the US manufacturing, left out the fact that you could get a similar product at a similar price from a customizer. And history has proven that the out of the box custom that was to be the B-Rad didn't provide decreased wait times compared to a customizer nor did it provide a superior service.
When top end players need to send them to customizers for tweaking, that should be a red flag.
I am not saying the B-Rad is a bad harp or overpriced for what it is...I am just saying there isn't enough evidence to support much of the hype around it.
Yes, I've tried (but not owned) several B-Rads that belonged to relatively famous harmonica players and even endorsers of the instrument.
----------
Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
VHT Special 6 Mods
Last Edited by on Nov 30, 2011 12:59 PM
|
harponica
23 posts
Dec 03, 2011
12:50 AM
|
Any B-radical owners out there unhappy with the vertical milled reeds in your instrument.Microscopic fracturing,complete breakage,out of tune,give me somethin.How long have you owned it.Do you play soft ,loud,or dynamically.This is a vertical milled reed questionaire.Your input would be appreciated.
|
