Tommy the Hat
460 posts
Nov 26, 2011
6:18 AM
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I have a question for you more experienced players. A bit of curiosity concerning the G harp. But then again, it could be just me. Me or G?
Yesterday I was working alone so I brought my gear with me, harps, video recorder mic/amp etc. I figured it was a good time to practice and perhaps make a video. It was a slow day. Well, I got a lot of practice in but no video. At least not the one I was trying to make. I put everything away and was done. It just wasn't the time and place for the video I wanted.
Awhile later I decided to go get my G harp (sp20) and mess around in the warehouse...nice sound out there. I have had that G harp a long time but never played it. I started to play and tried to come up with a noodling riff or two but couldn't figure it out because the harp was so low keyed. After a few minutes I decided to get the camera and chart my practice. I got this trudging along rhythm going, kind of slow and boring, but it was only practice so what the hell. I stomped out a beat.
I ended up taking four takes because something weird was happening. I couldn't play that thing as smoothly as other harps. It wasn't the harp, it's fine. Is it that key? It felt like I was drawing through peanut butter. The harp felt slightly thick. Not real bad, but enough to start working on my breath. I kept running out. I actually stopped mid vid in two attempts because I just fell out of the beat from not breathing right. And my lips kept sticking to the harp no matter how much I tried to wet them.
What a chore it was...lol. Looking back at the video I can see my face contort a couple of times and my lip stick. I can see where I release the harp from my lips just to readjust and get a better embouchure. Which messes up the lick I was playing. Then trying to wet them as I was playing was really throwing the timing off.
So is it me or is a G harp a little "different?" I played 2nd position.
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Tommy
My Videos
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FMWoodeye
48 posts
Nov 26, 2011
6:30 AM
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I think you'll find that as you get into the lower-tuned harps the sound isn't as bright and they're harder to bend. G is sort of on the borderline, for me, anyway.
I consider my "wheelhouse" to be A-flat harp up through E-flat, perhaps because that's mostly what I use. You can certainly hit all the bends in the lower harps, but it might take a little practice. It would certainly be practice well spent.
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Blueharper
191 posts
Nov 26, 2011
6:34 AM
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Not trying to be glib,but from what you are saying it sounds like you.I don't think your lips sticking to the harp would pertain to the key.Also the peanut butter reference. To me (and I'm only speaking for myself) I find lower keys seem a little more open,so maybe that could cause your running out of breath.
Did you have another harp to try?
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Tommy the Hat
461 posts
Nov 26, 2011
6:39 AM
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I had about 11 harps with me. I was playing for a few hours before the G attempt. Mostly C, Bb and D harps. Suzuki, Delta Frost, Solist Pro and SP20.
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Tommy
My Videos
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eharp
1579 posts
Nov 26, 2011
10:21 AM
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you were practicing for a few hours before you got out a never played harp in a low key....?
believing you are the issue.
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Joe_L
1643 posts
Nov 26, 2011
10:38 AM
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Its probably you. Pick it up and try it again now.
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Pistolcat
49 posts
Nov 26, 2011
10:51 AM
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My lower keys requires a bit more air and therefore I can get a bit more winded with them. As for the peanut reference I'm not quit sure what you mean. Lower pitched blow reeds requires a softer and steady attack with resonation even without bends. You can't just blast them as a c harp. So lower harps is a bit slower, for me as a beginner at least. I listened to your video which was a nice chugging experience. Did you mean that your lower holes warbles was kind of slow? Sounded nice anyway in that low key sound.
Listen to SBWII's bye-bye bird on that low c harp.
And resonating all your notes are the way to get a good tone so low key practice is great, imo.
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Tommy the Hat
462 posts
Nov 26, 2011
11:08 AM
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Maybe the peanut butter reference was a bad one. It just felt a little ...hmmm...thick? Not smooth and fast like the usual SP20's I play in C, D or even Bb. I was using more air for some reason. Not "harder" just more pull. I was running out of breath. Maybe it was the chords which caused continuous breathing (?) Just odd. But now thinking about it maybe you are correct. Maybe it was a combination of a few things one of which was too much playing. Also, by using more air I was probably drying out my mouth thus the lips sticking to the harp. All and all it was a new experience and a different sound than I'm used to with my harp practice.
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Tommy
My Videos
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2011 11:10 AM
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nacoran
4987 posts
Nov 26, 2011
11:53 AM
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Lower harps do respond slower than higher harps. The reeds are longer and heavier, so it takes more energy to impart enough inertia to get them sounding. I notice if I haven't played my G for a while it takes a little bit to get used to it again and the bends take a little more effort. They're there though. Some lower harps are actually thicker, to give the low reeds enough room to swing without hitting the covers.
I've got a Low Low F harp, and it responds slowly enough that it would throw off my timing. I found I have to try to play ahead of the beat to play on the beat.
But it's just a matter of practice. There are some neat sounds you can make on lower harps. If you do a lip pop on a lower harp there is a neat effect where you can shape the tone of the reeds while the resonate after the pop. It's a great percussive sound that doesn't work well on higher harps. It's just a matter of putting in the time on the lower harps. I find they blow bend easier too. :)
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groyster1
1592 posts
Nov 26, 2011
2:34 PM
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I have 1 high G harp that takes less wind because of the higher pitch but its still more difficult to bend 1 or 2 draw than a C harp or Bb
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florida-trader
73 posts
Nov 26, 2011
2:41 PM
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Since you are talking about a Special 20, it is one of the easier harps to work on because it is put together with screws and the comb makes it idiot proof with regard to putting it back together. (not saying you are an idiot). Try closing the gaps a little. There are a bazillion videos on YouTube about how to do it. Watch a couple of them until you feel like you understand what you are doing and have at it. Everything everyone else has said is true. It takes more air to move or bend the lower keyed harps so if the gaps are set too high then you will have too much air escaping through the reed slot and not enough impacting the reed.
There is a silver lining to this though. Once you learn how to bend the reeds on the G harp, the other higher keyed harps will be lots easier. It will improve your overall playing.
I don't know how many of us are old enough to remember when President Nixon started to open diplomatic relations with China. One of the things that helped open the doors, believe it or not, was Ping Pong. The U.S. and China got together to play a Ping Pong competition. They even called it "Ping Pong Diplomacy". One thing that has stuck in my mind was the commentators talking about how the Chinese swung lead weighted ping pong paddles for several hours a day to build up their ping pong muscles. When they put a regular paddle in their hands it felt as light as a feather.
That is the same thing I feel when I play a Low D or Low F or Low Eb harp. It's like swinging that lead weighted paddle. When I move back to the A harps etc. they feel as light as a feather.
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FMWoodeye
55 posts
Nov 26, 2011
9:44 PM
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@florida trader
Yes, very insightful. I have a little congestive heart failure going on, so breath is at a premium. I even have a harp in A that takes more breath to play than the
Special 20 and Marine Band and my defunct Overdrive. I suspect there may be slight differences harp to harp in the same model and key, but nothing big to the average player. This thread is gonna put be back on some lower-tuned harp practice. You never know when you might have to pick one up.
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Diggsblues
1100 posts
Nov 27, 2011
10:21 AM
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@FMwoodeye Got a new g special 20 about 6 months ago plays like butter. I usually get GMs but they only had this. G is usually a harder key to play for me but
this thing is incredible. I hear hohner has may much better tolerances in reed plates.
I would look into Coq10 for your heart I hear good things about it for congestive heart problems.
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Emile "Diggs" D'Amico a Legend In His Own Mind
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Chickenthief
199 posts
Nov 27, 2011
10:38 AM
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I have more trouble learning/remembering good intonation on the 2 draw one step bend than I do on the 3 draw bends in that key. I also have to use a much different embouchure for accurate 3 draw 1/2 step bends on a G harp than the embouchure that I use for the higher harps.
It has definitely been work but it all starts to come around to what you need with practice. When the lower register of a G harp is played with crummy intonation it sounds like mud. Gotta have my tuner when I practice that harp.
I suspect a lot of players are much more comfortable playing G harp in 1st position.
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