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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Starting up in a beginning band
Starting up in a beginning band
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Jeffrey van Kippersl
60 posts
Nov 23, 2011
9:47 AM
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The question is;
Is it good for a beginning harp player to start up in a band that, for instance, tends to listen to my timing instead of the drummers. Theres a couple of other problem the band itself is still fighting.
And I still fight with whatever, my timing isnt the best yet.
A good friend of mine, he rather experienced with playing in bands and making music tells me that it would be better to find a band that is already having the most basic things in order and has some experience in the blues already. taking me to the next level.
Im anxious to go to a better band and to be the one the band is waiting on......
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FMWoodeye
38 posts
Nov 23, 2011
10:17 AM
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It might not be easy to find a lot of blues bands that would welcome a beginning harp player into their fold.
But yes, I guess it would be better if at least one member of the band were an intermediate or advanced player and had a grasp of the fundamentals.
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nacoran
4965 posts
Nov 23, 2011
10:44 AM
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There are a few key things to look for in bandmates. The first is if you can stand each other. The second is how well people play. The first band I was in was less experienced. We learned a lot by playing together though.
I think you can have people with different levels of playing ability if everyone is on the same page about getting better. Our first bass player hated anything to do with theory. He refused to learn keys. The guitar player had to show him each part and he learned it by rote- or tried. He never got any better.
If you can find someone who is willing to teach you how to be a band, even better, but someone's always going to be the less experienced guy. Generally, you want to listen for the beat from the drums or the bass player because they are easy to hear and play a pretty basic beat. You want the band to listen for that. If you want the beat to be different you have to tell the drummer or the bass player what beat to play.
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Nate
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apskarp
547 posts
Nov 23, 2011
12:50 PM
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I would say that play in several bands if you have time to. You will learn something from each of them. Try also acoustic setup, duo/trio & full band if possible.
The more you play with real human beings the better. But don't forget the metronome either. ;)
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Hoodoo Sauna
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chromaticblues
1069 posts
Nov 23, 2011
2:47 PM
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Jeffrey Nacoran's advice was very good!
If your not that great yourself just stay put if these people are your friends, or at least people you like. Get better at playing before worring about such stuff!
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jbone
691 posts
Nov 23, 2011
7:38 PM
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well if you're given an opportunity to grow with these guys, take it. BUT i would never EVER let the guys try to follow me! even after a lot of years playing with bands, at jams, in duos and trios, etc, i am not the timekeeper. i MUST have someone to keep time for me.
apskarp has said a lot also. every different band or partner you play with will teach you and help you hone your skills and chops.
i have worked actively with bands and partners for about 20 years now and played for almost 40. i've been in studio several times and gotten to open for a touring pro or 3. mostly lately it's local and duo stuff but i always enjoy sitting in with local bands as well. there was a time i never ventured out of 2nd or cross position, and once i finally did, i began to really grow as a player. 1st and 3rd are with me always now. i consider it my duty to be truly a team player even if sometimes that means telling it like it is to band mates. if these guys you mentioned are not following the drummer and bassist, TELL THEM TO. a solid rhythm section is vital to a successful band even if all you do is blow up the garage or den.
success is worth working toward, always.
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clamsharpplayer
127 posts
Nov 23, 2011
7:45 PM
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When I first joined a band, my Dad saw us a few times and claimed "you guys are a six beer band". Meaning we sounded good after a six pack.
I thought" SO WHAT" I'm having a blast!
We got better. So will you guys
Last Edited by on Nov 23, 2011 7:48 PM
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didjcripey
159 posts
Nov 23, 2011
10:33 PM
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Depending on where you live, and who you know, you may not have many choices for bands to join, especially if you're not a hot player.
I like the approach that my bandmates have always taken, and that is to do the best with what you've got. Sure it would be great to have the skanky back up vocals and the horn section and the keyboards, but big bands seem to be hard to find these days, especially where I come from.
Also, being a team player can be more important than being a great muso. The best drummer we ever had was such a pain in the arse that he didn't last long (by mutual agreement). Unless its about making money (good luck), it should be about having fun and surly primadonnas can sure spoil the fun.
I also reckon that a band is not a democracy; the front man rules. He's the one who has most of his arse on the line, and on whose comfort the band really depends. Our front man prefers to sing in harp unfriendly keys (like C# minor). Should we change the key to suit me? No. What's really important, especially in the blues is the song and the lyrics, the solos and backing are really just icing on the cake.
Enjoy the trip, and strive for constant improvement.
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Lucky Lester
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Bluzmanze
15 posts
Nov 24, 2011
2:33 AM
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I started my first blues band years ago,on drums,with players that knew how to play already,but not blues,we sounded horrible for quite awhile,but kept at it and eventually became pretty good.Although blues music is quite simple on paper,playing it well requires effort practice,and listening.If you haven't already,I would recommend you start taping rehearsals,you can hear what you are doing wrong and right much more easily,and cuts down on finger pointing.If you take playing and learning seriously,eventually you and a couple of other players will outgrow and surpass other players in the band,and you will either replace those players,or you can find another side project/ others that are better/more dedicated so you can grow and become better,as long as you are dedicated and serious,better players will raise you game.I agree that you are there to support and compliment the front people,and agree that bands need a clear cut leader,but that person should not be a singer that does not play an instrument.You all sound so new/inexperienced that you may not have anyone that knows enough/ is qualified to lead yet.As far as timing goes,with back beat oriented stuff like blues,the drummer needs to take charge and define the time/groove,along with the bass,but the rest of you are responsible for staying with and playing within that framework.Like another poster said,as long as you like and get along with the people you are playing with,I would stick with them for awhile,and see how you progress and have fun,but try and play with as many other people as you can,you can learn something from anyone you play with,soak up all the knowledge you can,and put it in your "bag of tricks"
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eharp
1575 posts
Nov 24, 2011
2:58 AM
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by keeping time, do you mean counting off the song?
there is no way a harp player can be the timekeeper unless he is gonna chug the entire song.
counting in a song is a different matter. all musicians should be able to do this. adam has a vid about keeping time. it might be the front porch vid.
i had trouble counting in a song. the bass player told me to just run the lyrics thru my head and count it off at the speed i was "singing" it at. it aint very difficult.
your main goal in starting a band is to find a solid drummer or bass player. they will be the timekeeper. they will keep everyone in the pocket.
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Jeffrey van Kippersl
61 posts
Nov 25, 2011
5:28 AM
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Thanks so much!
These answers support my approach fully and I feel a bit more motivated to stay with this group to learn and learn.
By chance I spoke to another band leader at a blues Jam session yesterday, and he listened to my playing, next invite is in! Next tuesday I need to play 2 song at their band practice.
Thanks for all the answers, it gave me a couple of ideas to work with :-)
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Jeffrey van Kippersl
65 posts
Dec 01, 2011
12:16 AM
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Wow, the band sit in was great, I didnt like the way the two guitarists where battling eachother for space and even though they wanted to work with me I decided not to join that band.
Band practice yesterday was great, we nailed a couple of songs and Ill post a sound file of one of the songs, I need some feedback for me as well as for the band.....
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whiskey&harmonicas
6 posts
Dec 06, 2011
2:39 AM
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My post is a bit late. But I discovered early on that bandmembers that live a distance from each other rarely work out. What also helps is at least one member owns a van
Last Edited by on Dec 06, 2011 2:40 AM
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MagicPauley57
112 posts
Dec 08, 2011
6:01 PM
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i'm worried when you say the two guitarists are battling for space as well,
Egos ?
a lot of blues based bands seem to forget about how the harp should fit into the mix , guitarists if two of them , want to have headcutting sessions with each other , the bass players plods along without locking into a drummer that only wants to bash away at cymbals at every fill , cancelling out the frequencies ,so the poor harp player can't hear what he/she's playing .
as above , long distance bands don't tend to work , also you always get one member that never has any money and wants it up front so they can buy themselves a drink .
sometimes it pays to be bold and say what your here for . to play harp !
not just be a sideman for the odd song or two , etc .
I depped for a band who needed a harp , then it turned out to be a ramshackle 8-9 piece band , they gave me a set list , and then when i got to the gig , they gave me a shortened version of the list of which songs thebwanted harp on , then they moaned when i played through a harp mic and amp , said i sounded too chicago blues ,and what they wanted is a screechy harp through a vocal mic . anyway i made a comprimise and played the few songs they wanted , took the money and used it to pay for the petrol in the pontiac for next day's car show ,
and this was a band that had been going for 20 odd years and still no idea how to set up a decent sound so you could distinguish what was going on , i guess i'm very fussy now ,who i play with , especially with rockn roll and blues , basically if it ain'T got that swing , bye bye birdy!
but i wish you the best of luck and play as much as you can with as many people , it's all a good journey in the end !
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hvyj
1999 posts
Dec 09, 2011
7:34 AM
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The best advice I was ever given is to always play with musicians who are better than you if you possibly can. If you do, you will sound better and you will learn faster.
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