FreeWilly
67 posts
Nov 21, 2011
6:04 PM
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Searching the internet wondering if I remembered right that the MBD has a fully sealed comb nowadays I struck upon 2 statements.
(1) That MBD were to come in a zippered pouch (Not confusing this with the crossover!).
(2) The photo on this website from Hohner: http://www.hohner.de/index.php5?95 My MBD looks quite different.
Does anyone have a zippered pouched gorgeous looking MBD yet? Or is this a compilation of rumours? Is it at least true that they are fully sealed?
(The design of the MBD coverplates always disturbed me btw: a retro harp with a stripe and extremely modern-looking DELUXE on it? Really Hohner? Really? The one in this photo looks excellent though! Doesn't it?)
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jiceblues
37 posts
Nov 22, 2011
2:46 AM
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The old ones came in a box ,the neww ones come in zippered pouch ( in EUROPE , i don't know about the US) and they are not fully sealed ( only the mouthpiece is ) , so you have to do it yourself . Though ,they seem to be sanded , but i sand them and put beeswax or some cream for the lips .MBDL are pretty good harps .CROSSOVER have a bamboo comb and MBDL pearwood comb , it's the only difference .I hope it may help you .
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Adam Hamil
8 posts
Nov 22, 2011
7:12 AM
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They are coming in a pouch in the US now, and they've changed the design on the coverplate to match the design of the crossover and thunderbird. The combs are triple coated with laquer.
@ jiceblues, All of the MBDs in pouches that i've seen have had fully sealed, sanded combs. Does yours have the new coverplates? The tuning is also different b/t the MBD and Crossover
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C. Adam Hamil
Free Reed Instrument Technician
Last Edited by on Nov 22, 2011 7:20 AM
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FreeWilly
69 posts
Nov 22, 2011
7:28 AM
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To make this thread a bit more informative (I'm shure there are loads of others, but what the heck):
Crossover is a Steve Baker developed tuning between Just and Equal. MBD is the classic MB that's also used on the sp20. The screws are different between MBD and Crossover too.
Great news btw Adam! Thanks for sharing! I can't wait to get my hands on one!
Jice, did you perhaps get the old model in a new pouch? Is that a transitional thing? Or is there an intercontinental difference? Anyone from Europe got a fully sealed one?
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Tag
23 posts
Nov 22, 2011
8:28 AM
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By fully sealed, do you mean the entire comb, sides included? Or just the perimeter?
Thanks
Tag
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groyster1
1576 posts
Nov 22, 2011
10:00 AM
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I have 3 MBD that came in a really nice case,which I prefer to the pouch, that my 1 crossover came in-the MBD plays as well,if not better than the crossover OOTB was until chromatic souped up the crossover,which is now my very best playing harp
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Adam Hamil
12 posts
Nov 22, 2011
10:21 AM
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@Tag, yes they are FULLY sealed. every surface is sealed. It also looks as thought hey are adding additional lacquer to the front. The original MBDs were only partially sealed, meaning they were only sealed on the exposed areas, not under reed plates or inside screw holes. Below is a photo of a new and an original comb. The difference is pretty noticeable.
The Lacquer on the front is so thick that you can't see the wood grain anymore.
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C. Adam Hamil
Free Reed Instrument Technician
Last Edited by on Nov 22, 2011 11:05 AM
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FreeWilly
70 posts
Nov 22, 2011
11:09 AM
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Oh that looks absolutely gorgeous.
Are they available in the EU as well? Man. Why buy a crossover?! Even the speed-bumps are taken out!
Nice pics Adam!
Last Edited by on Nov 22, 2011 11:10 AM
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groyster1
1579 posts
Nov 22, 2011
12:37 PM
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@Free
no reason to buy the crossover unless you think the bamboo comb is superior and worth the extra cost
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jiceblues
38 posts
Nov 23, 2011
3:38 AM
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Well ,i understand ,my MBDL's are old ones ,they have the old coverplates and they are not fully sealed . I'gonna buy me a new one ! Thank's everybody !
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FreeWilly
71 posts
Nov 23, 2011
3:50 AM
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Jice,
Could you let us know - when you get it - whether it's the new one and where you got it? Would be much appreciated!
I'd still like to know whether these are available in EU or not. The Hohner website doesn't seem to be the place for this..
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jiceblues
39 posts
Nov 23, 2011
4:12 AM
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The last one i bought ,it was in july 2011 . I bought it on the THOMANN website ,in GERMANY . It came with a zippered pouch , but old coverplates and not fully sealed .I bought another in june at my local music shop(they had to order it at HOHNER's), i've been waitin' a month and the harp came in a black box . I can't tell you more...
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Tommy the Hat
447 posts
Nov 23, 2011
4:36 AM
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I haven't found any descriptions/details of the harp yet, whether on Hohners site or other sellers that say "fully sealed" for the MBD. However the Crossover description does. Until we can know if you would definitely get one fully sealed before purchasing, at least for me, I'd be hesitant to buy. Especially someone like me who doesn't generally open and take apart harps.
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Tommy
My Videos
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FreeWilly
72 posts
Nov 23, 2011
7:18 AM
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I just contacted a dutch shop that specializes in Harmonica's www.mondharmonicawinkel.nl and spoke to a really nice man who told me that the A deluxes he had now (I only asked for A) just came in and had zippered pouches and the new coverplates. He said that although they are fully sealed, the sealing is not sufficient and I might want to consider sealing it myself.
I hope Santa brings me one of these. In which case, I'll report back here.
btw: Because they are easily torn apart, isn't sealing perhaps rather easy to do on these? Does the partially non-sealedness of the harps give a difference in tone?
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Adam Hamil
13 posts
Nov 23, 2011
7:57 AM
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@groyster1
The crossover's tuning is also a major reason to buy one. For someone who plays in many different positions, this tuning is much more useful than the traditional HOHNER tuning.
@Tommy the Hat
I was able to find this description. It doesn't use the term "fully Sealed" but does say "entire". It's the 4th bullet down.
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C. Adam Hamil
Free Reed Instrument Technician
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groyster1
1580 posts
Nov 23, 2011
8:10 AM
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@Adam
are they not both compromised tuned?I thought the only hohner that is JI tuned is the blue midnight
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FreeWilly
73 posts
Nov 23, 2011
8:16 AM
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See my comment above:
"To make this thread a bit more informative (I'm sure there are loads of others, but what the heck):
Crossover is a Steve Baker developed tuning between Just and Equal. MBD is the classic MB that's also used on the sp20."
MBD is compromise, but way more towards JI.
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groyster1
1582 posts
Nov 23, 2011
11:32 AM
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thanks free willy
info always appreciated from more knowledgeable people than myself BTW everyone have a great thanksgiving
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Tommy the Hat
449 posts
Nov 23, 2011
11:36 AM
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Thanks FreeWilly.
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Tommy
My Videos
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FreeWilly
74 posts
Nov 23, 2011
11:43 AM
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I thought: were did I find that info? I always remember stuff, but not where it came from.
It came from this post to Harp-L from Steve Baker (I'm not on that list, but googled it). It's an interesting read I think:
"Several people have asked about the fine tuning used in the MB Crossover. When I was developing this model with Hohner in Trossingen I suggested using the fine tuning that I've used on my own harps for many years, as it allows you to play in tune with other instruments in different positions but still gives most chords without interference beats. The MB Deluxe on the other hand uses the same tuning as the Marine Band Classic and Special 20, also a compromise tuning, but closer to Just Intonation, whereas the Crossover is closer to tempered tuning.
For this model I fine tuned master reed plates three times with 2 week-long rest periods in between. The tuning values of the master plates were then read off on the tuning table and test instruments were tuned to those values. Then I checked and corrected these to try to eliminate systemic errors. The production models I've subsequently tested were good enough for me out of the box and were about as close to my specs as you can reasonably expect from industrial production (no liability for any inaccuracies!).
These note values are intended to sound in tune with other instruments tuned to A=440Hz at "normal" playing volume and are measured on the comb but without covers (with the covers on they're a little lower). They represent ideal values and will still sound OK within a margin of error of 2-3 cents (it's very hard to tune to within 1 cent accuracy). I always tune with minimum air pressure as the only fixed point is the highest possible note a free reed can produce. Everything lower than that is a variable which is subject to the individual intonation of the player and will lead to different results from different people. To achieve this I leave a gap between my upper lip and the harp when playing the note while tuning, in order to reduce pressure differential to a minimum. It's also more important that the harp sounds good than that the note values are exactly as stated below, as tuning harmonicas is anything but an exact science. I proceded as follows:
0=443Hz w. minimal air pressure, all deviations are in cents, 1Hz = approx. 4 cents on most tuners
Blow reed plate:
Root notes (1, 4, 7 & 10) tuned to 0
Thirds (2, 5 & 8) minus 5 cents
Fifths (3, 6 & 9) + 1 cent
Draw reed plate:
1-draw is very difficult to measure accurately. With absolutely minimal air pressure maybe +8 cents, more in low keys. Like that it will sound right with normal air pressure. It's essential that it sounds good when played together with 2-draw and as an octave interval with 4-draw.
2-draw + 4-6 cents depending on the key, at normal air pressure it should sound at the same pitch as 3-blow
3- & 7-draw tuned to 0
4- & 8-draw 1 cent higher than 2-draw (i.e. + 5-7 cents)
5- & 9-draw + 2 cents (this will mean the 7th chord sounds rough, but sounds better as a single note. You can even tune it a little higher if you prefer that sound)
6- & 10-draw 1 cent higher than 4-draw (i.e. + 6-8 cents)
It's highly recommended to check that all perfect intervals (octaves, fifths and fourths) sound without interference beats. This is what piano tuners do too. You'll find it's damnably difficult to obtain constant readings from your tuner and I can only recommend playing very softly indeed and holding the note for a long time so you get a fairly clear note value. I use a Korg MT-1200 tuner with a built-in spread which tunes the upper octaves slightly sharper (as do piano tuners) and use the smallest spread the machine offers. It's hard to work to this degree of accuracy with a tuner which only shows Hz values.
Hope this will be of assistance,
Steve Baker
www.stevebaker.de
www.bluesculture.com"
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groyster1
1584 posts
Nov 23, 2011
12:37 PM
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steve is the real deal great info
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FreeWilly
91 posts
Dec 04, 2011
1:04 PM
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Thought I'd check back, now that I have my NEW MBD! Yeah. Got it through www.mondharmonicawinkel.nl (eh, Sinterklaas I mean..), who I rang first to ask if they had the newer or the older ones. Nice bloke and fast delivery (for all you dutch-guys out there).
Ehm. Observations first, compared to the old MBD.
Coverplates: they seem a bit higher to me. E.g., there's more room for the reeds to swing. And the airvents on the sides are higher and shorter as well. The corners look slightly more closed. The backs are openened further on the sides. They close a bit later. Also the design on the coverplates is different.
Comb: is fully sealed now. The guy told me that that doesn't mean they won't swell at all, but it is better than the old ones. The letters Hohner on the back are now white instead of black.
The 3 screws are no longer the same color as the reedplates, but made of steel(?).
Reeds: Something is different, but I can't say what. It's a feeling. They look very flat. To my disappointment they were gapped awful. Very hardly could get all the notes, let alone overblows (6 was possible...not good). Especially the blow-reeds were mm's wide. Ridiculous. If this was your first harp, you'd stop playing. Also there was a lot of filing done on the tips (A harp), which is always a shame. After thorough gapping, 4 and 5 blow rattled, and I had to massage and align (wrench) the reeds and even file some protruding metal on them. Rattle's gone now. After an hour of so of playing it now feels pretty okay. Not super-airtight, but that would probably need sanding etc. Except for the 4/5 (which was very slightly, so I think the rattle was from the tuning-leftovers? I never had this before??) the reeds were very nicely aligned. I can now get all overblows, blowbends and 7 OD very nicely.
The reedplates aren't rounded as well as on the old MBD.
I think after some more playing and regapping, this will be a very nice harp. I love the sound and tuning. Although the coverplate-design has improved, the color of the letters, the rounding of the reedplates, the incompatible screws and the very impractical zipper-pouch has taken some of the esthetics of the old MBD away. Somehow this feels more part of a mass-production than the old ones did, and the awful gapping matches that impression. Of course there will always be good and bad ones. Let's hope this one needed more work than the others.. If you must gap it so far from the start, I can't help but think that the reeds lose some of their freshnes..
I guess now you really only pay the extra $ (compared to the marine Band) for screws and opened coverplates??
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FreeWilly
92 posts
Dec 04, 2011
1:06 PM
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Looking at the above pictures, it strikes me that in my MBD new and MBD old, the reedplates seem to be the other way round. In mine, the newer has the rounded version, and the older has the triangle cut out (which I described above as: better rounded). Funny...
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groyster1
1610 posts
Dec 04, 2011
2:47 PM
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@Free Willy
I now have 4 mb deluxes in Ab B Db and Eb that I got for less than $40.00 apiece-being a sp20 lover I have to give the edge to these harps great sound and screws instead of those effin nails mb have-its all in the tuning and now the MB deluxe,Sp20 and blue midnight are my favorite harps
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MP
1901 posts
Dec 04, 2011
7:41 PM
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just flat sanded and sealed w/ laquer three MBDs.
i'm chagrined they finally sealed them completely.
i like the design on the older cover plates better.
no hohner portrait.
i think it was htownfess whom said the hohner portrait looks more and more like a simpsons character. i got a kick outta that.
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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Adam Hamil
14 posts
Dec 05, 2011
12:28 PM
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@FreeWilly
Both screws(brass colored & Plain Steel) are both steel screws with the same thread. They are most certainly compatible with each other. And Personally, I love the pouches. I don't know how many times I've dropped one of the plastic cases and had it break into pieces, but it's happened alot!! You can throw these around and they're fine. they even bounce!!! (although I wouldn't recommended trying to bounce one) they also have a loop for your belt which I love b/c I never leave home without a harp. it's a shame that yours was set up so badly. Most of the ones I've played are set up pretty well. I can usually at least OB #6 hole.
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C. Adam Hamil
Free Reed Instrument Technician
Last Edited by on Dec 05, 2011 12:29 PM
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Tommy the Hat
479 posts
Dec 05, 2011
3:01 PM
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These are cheaper than the Crossovers and am I correct in assuming they are similar? (Obviously there is the bamboo vs pearwood thing, but otherwise). Especially since they are now sealed?
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Tommy
My Videos
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groyster1
1616 posts
Dec 05, 2011
5:25 PM
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@Tommy
look back @adams post hesays the crossover is more useful for those who play in many different positions due to tuning
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