the_happy_honker
97 posts
Nov 08, 2011
4:11 AM
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When I first bought a Manji, I thought I would be getting "a Marine Band that was built right." I was sorely disappointed.
The build quality of the Manji is very good. It is tight and responsive and some effort has been expended to make it comfortable to play.
But the idea that the Manji is a drop-in replacement for the Marine Band is just wrong. It isn't even close. As hvyj says, the notes on Suzuki harps are more "focused," whereas notes on Marine Bands are "wider," tonally richer. To my ears, this is a big difference.
The second thing is that the Manji cover plates are very good at transmitting, not only microtonal variations in pitch, but also nanotonal imperfections in technique. A little reed rattle caused by (I'm guessing) a mismatch between the reed and the resonance of oral cavity is audible, whereas it passes almost unnoticed with the Marine Band. I am a fairly wet player and I can sometimes hear a little ding as a little spit gobbet hits the Manji covers.
I had a Marine Band 1896 in C go south on me yesterday, so I thought I would try moving the cover plates to the Manji and see if I could get the best of both worlds - the reed set up and response of Manji with tonal characteristics of the Marine Band. I used the Manji cover plates as templates and drilled the necessary holes in the cover plates and lo, the tone is very close to a Marine Band and I am very pleased with it.
The only thing that is significantly different is the Marine Banji is a tad taller and requires a wider embouchure, but I found I quickly got used to it.
I'd be interested to hear if others have made the same mod and their thoughts on it.
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jimbo-G
37 posts
Nov 08, 2011
6:24 AM
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That's a really good idea, I am a MB player but iv been very close to buying a manji. I will now definitely buy one and if I don't like it I can always do your mod. Do you think you could get some sound samples of the marine banji (amazing name btw).
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MrVerylongusername
2035 posts
Nov 08, 2011
6:26 AM
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Interesting post!
More weight to my strong belief that the marine band sound has more to do with coverplates than comb.
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isaacullah
1658 posts
Nov 08, 2011
7:43 AM
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Yeah, I agree. Very interesting experiment. I also have the hypothesis that coverplates make a huge difference in tone, so I'm quite interested in hearing that you've witnessed such a large change. How much do you think the marine band side vents come into play here? My thinking is that the side vents allow you to hear yourself better because the sound is projected a bit more closely back towards your ears. Do you think this effect could be "masking" some of the sounds you could hear with Manji coverplates (the rattles and stuff)?
We need more experiments like this.
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HarpNinja
1861 posts
Nov 08, 2011
8:07 AM
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We need more DOCUMENTED experiments like this. ;)
I realize everyone generally shares with the best of intentions, but I am surprised no one has gone to any length to share such an experiment via mp3 or YouTube.
Someone should to that!!!
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
VHT Special 6 Mods
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Pistolcat
20 posts
Nov 08, 2011
12:02 PM
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Agreed. Maybe someone with nice recording equipment, steady tone and an abundance of harps and coverplates. For example a harpcustomizer? ;) I too think that coverplates makes worlds of difference. I got a Hering 1923 Vintage Harp in F and the coverplates (Brass maybe?) actually sings and vibrates markedly.
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Fingers
114 posts
Nov 08, 2011
12:11 PM
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I have replaced all my Manji combs with Hetrick Diamondwood combs!! they play like a different animal!!.
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HarpNinja
1863 posts
Nov 08, 2011
12:16 PM
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I thought I did a demo sorta like this, but it was a way crappy webcam mic.
I have a condenser that might work, but I haven't tried it.
It would be a wise decision to use the same comb/reedplates for the entire demo. You can either just pinch the covers or use clips to quickly move between the two.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
VHT Special 6 Mods
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Miles Dewar
1156 posts
Nov 08, 2011
6:54 PM
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Yes!... We need Science!
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rbeetsme
450 posts
Nov 08, 2011
7:43 PM
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I think it's a combination of all elements. I have a set of Suzuki pure harps, nice enough harp, but not very responsive and not very loud. They are warm sounding though. I swapped reedplates from another manufacturer and liked it better, more responsive but still warm. I obtained a different comb and now my franken-harp is loud, responsive and still warmer than the donor harps. Replacing one element can make a big difference, but I'm glad I took it further. In the process of obtaining more combs to finish out the set.
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jbone
680 posts
Nov 08, 2011
10:27 PM
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the manji covers ARE vented though the shape is different.
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harpwrench
542 posts
Nov 09, 2011
4:00 AM
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Whatchya gonna do with the pureharp combs rb.......
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Spiers Harmonicas
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rbeetsme
452 posts
Nov 09, 2011
6:28 AM
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I used it on a different brand harp, replaced the plastic one, I like it. It may sound crazy to swap the plates on a 100.00 harp, but the Suzuki blew out early and no response from the company. I was offered a custom comb so I tried it too.
Last Edited by on Nov 09, 2011 6:30 AM
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HarveyHarp
330 posts
Nov 09, 2011
6:45 AM
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I took a Special 20 and knocked off the cover support tabs from the comb,and fitted Marine band plates in it, and then replace the comb with a sealed Marine Band comb, and then replaced the cover plates with Marine Band plates, and low and behold, it sounded just like a Marine Band
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HarveyHarp
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eebadeeb
23 posts
Nov 09, 2011
8:09 AM
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@HarveyHarp, so if I am reading this correctly, you have a Marine Band comb, Marine Band plates, and Marine Band covers and it sounds just like a Marine Band.
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HarveyHarp
331 posts
Nov 09, 2011
11:04 AM
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yes, that is correct. It was a joke. LOL
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HarveyHarp
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rbeetsme
454 posts
Nov 09, 2011
7:28 PM
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My FrankenFrost
Last Edited by on Nov 09, 2011 7:34 PM
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