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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
VHT Special 6 vs HarpGear HG2 Video
VHT Special 6 vs HarpGear HG2 Video
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HarpNinja
1851 posts
Nov 07, 2011
6:56 AM
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I plan on shooting a comparison this week. I'd like some input as to how/what to shoot.
I can either do an actual video with a Zoom Q3 HD and an amp on either side of the mics, or try and record it with the amps miked into my recording interface and Audacity.
The problem with choice two is I don't have two of the exact same mics to mike with, and that will color the sound. The HD in close proximity should be ok for YouTube.
I had planned on playing a riff and looping it. That way, booth amps see the EXACT same thing. I can then pan between the two by using their volume controls (I don't have an A/B pedal).
Regarding what is played in the demo, my generic piece is an interpretation of a William Clarke 12 bar solo. I like it because if uses both tongue blocking and puckering. It uses chords and octaves, and I play it with a couple overblows. Seem like a reasonable idea?
To split the signal, I will need to use my M13, but I can have that in true bypass. The looper, a Boomerang III is regarded as the most transparent looper on the market.
One con is that the VHT is not stock. Nor do I want to go back and replace what I can to shoot this (speaker and tubes). I will be upfront with that in the video. The HG2 will be stock.
I can already tell you the differences, but this might be a fun video. Any suggestions on how to make this as scientific as possible are welcomed. For example, do I use an Ultimate 57 or a totally clean mic like my AKG D5?
This will get done for sure this week. I already have the gear set-up...I just want to know what people want in a demo.
Thanks!
****Edit: My signature includes an UPDATE PDF of the mods done to my VHT including the mods, costs (new and used), and sound samples.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
VHT Special 6 Mods
Last Edited by on Nov 07, 2011 9:10 AM
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walterharp
754 posts
Nov 07, 2011
7:02 AM
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if you do not have a true AB then maybe just switching plugs would be better. the other amp in the circuit with a simple Y connector could influence the tone, even with the volume down. The human ear is very sensitive to volume, so I would also use post processing to be sure both recordings are at the same volume, but find the volume where each amp sounds sweetest. Cleanest mic would probably be best
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MrVerylongusername
2034 posts
Nov 07, 2011
7:05 AM
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As long as the same signal goes in both, it doesn't matter if it's clean or coloured by the gear.
what matters is the sounds that come out and that they are captured equally. Youtube uses lossy compression too. Does it have to be video? wouldn't a lossless audio file like a wav be more helpful in making a comparison?
If it were me doing it, I'd be tempted to record a clip from one amp direct into the Zoom's mics, then, same settings record the other amp. If you want to do a quick A/B you can edit sounclips together in audacity (or better if you have it)
Last Edited by on Nov 07, 2011 7:06 AM
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HawkeyeKane
385 posts
Nov 07, 2011
7:10 AM
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The only suggestion I have is inclusion of a bullet mic of some kind if you have one, mainly just so us bullet users get a look at differences.
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Hawkeye Kane
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5F6H
967 posts
Nov 07, 2011
7:14 AM
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I wouldn't worry too much about capturing them simultaneously, once spliced together on the YT vid, you can hop back & forth to specific points using the time bar, for purposes of comparison.
I would concentrate on getting the most realistic recording of each amp, set to it's own optimum, same settings & placement on the Q3. Trying to record the 2 at the same time, both amps off axis, with possible environmental considerations with amp placement in the room may make the job a lot harder?
You've been transparent about the fact that the VHT is tweaked & what those tweaks are, so I personally don't see that as an issue.
Reamping with the looper is a smart move, excludes any bias whilst playing the clip.
In terms of harp mic, using a commonly available mic makes most sense, everyone on this forum knows what an ultimate 57 is & where to get it if they so desire.
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www.myspace.com/markburness
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HarpNinja
1852 posts
Nov 07, 2011
7:17 AM
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I *think* I can record just the audio and then have it both ways...a WAV from my website to download and then a compressed YouTube clip.
I want it on YT as that is where people will most easily find it. Most of what I've been doing on YT is sharing random things that I had to find answers to myself. Or that is at least what I want to do with it.
I can't find any A/B's of these amps readily. I am sure someone on some forum has a clip buried in the vast universe of the Internet.
Regarding general fidelity, I am not worried about the Y connector. The splitter in the M13 appears to work great with harmonica, and in a live setting, I can't hear a difference with or without. I do have a bias, though, in that 99% of the amps' use, a minor loss of audio quality won't matter at all.
How many people would use either of these amps in a setting where you would professionally be recording just the tone of the amp for commercial use? Probably never. It will always be effected, be thrown in the mix with a bunch of instruments, and no matter how it is miked, it will color the sound. Then, since it is not a live performance, whatever speakers you use will further color the tone.
In general, I don't like the demo'ing of a piece of gear to be shared online. Too many variables effect that actual sound. HOWEVER, in doing an A/B of this sorts, it might be possible to at least distinguish between differences in tone in general or under specific uses.
I don't think it is possible to REALLY do an amp vs amp demo that encompasses all the variables of what we hear. Maybe, though, with this, some generalities of eq, volume, and breakup can be at least interpreted.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
VHT Special 6 Mods
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dted
5 posts
Nov 07, 2011
7:19 AM
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How about using regular "D" and a "Low D" harps (for example) so we get an idea of how the amps sound with high and low pitched harps. I seem to have a problem finding a single setting that works for both.
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HarpNinja
1853 posts
Nov 07, 2011
7:24 AM
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@Hawkeye...I don't have a bullet mic to use. I think I am ok with that as, IMO, the more a mic colors the tone, the less you hear of what the amp can do.
If someone wants to trade a solid bullet mic for a super nice custom harp or two, I would do so immediately just for this purpose.
@5F6h...If I was better with my recording gear, I would use my Sennheiser e906 and take the time to mic each amp with the loop. The problem is I will probably eff something up, lol.
I'll tell you what, I'll try the e906 close-miked. I know you lose the room sound, but the room I am in sucks for this sort of thing anyways. I can always come back and do an A/B that way too.
I will still share as a WAV and YT, but the YT won't actually have a video synched with the experiment.
My editing skills suck, so you may have to suffer through me moving the mic and starting the loop over from amp to amp, but it should work.
After this weekend, I have about a month off from gigging and can just leave everything up to make another clip when need be, etc.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
VHT Special 6 Mods
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HarpNinja
1854 posts
Nov 07, 2011
7:26 AM
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@dted
I have a sh!t-ton of low tuned harps. I'll try to include a few different keys. My intent is to do this before Friday, but I have some harmonicas I need to get shipped this week, so for all interested, please be patient if it doesn't get done until next week.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
VHT Special 6 Mods
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HawkeyeKane
386 posts
Nov 07, 2011
7:49 AM
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Mike, can I email you at your booking address, or is there a better one?
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Hawkeye Kane
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LSB
77 posts
Nov 07, 2011
8:00 AM
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Considering the mods to the VHT, and the fact that this is a comparison, I expect many watching/listening will want to know what the total cost for the mods was - Parts, labor, shipping etc.
Shame there isn't someone with a bone stock VHT near you to throw in mix as well. Would really be interesting to hear all three side by side.
Thanks for going to the hassle and taking the time to do this Mike, I am looking forward to hearing the comparison.
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HarpNinja
1855 posts
Nov 07, 2011
8:33 AM
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@Hawek
They all go to the same account...but mikefugazzi AT gmail DOT com works just as well.
@LSB
I know! I have some with it stock on my channel, but I will be very upfront with the changes. I've broken it down a few times, but will find a way to integrate that into the demo (around $300 total cost).
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
VHT Special 6 Mods
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HarpNinja
1856 posts
Nov 07, 2011
9:12 AM
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I updated my VHT Special 6 Mods PDF. You can download it from my signature below.
I included detailed cost break downs - my actual cost versus buying all the parts new as of today. I also included a list of alternatives I considered before buying the VHT along with the cost of the amps new. I did not include used prices or possible mod prices.
Finally, I hyperlinked all my current audio examples - no matter how crappy - of the amp at various stages of tweaking (ranging from tube swaps to all-out modded).
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
VHT Special 6 Mods
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Kingley
1704 posts
Nov 07, 2011
9:23 AM
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HarpNinja - Mike, you may not like what I'm going to post as I suspect you may want to use your musical toys, but it's the simple truth. It's in no way whatsoever intended to be offensive, so please don't take it that way.
If you're going to do an honest, open, unbiased demo of each amp then you need to do the following.
Play each amp at the same settings using NO effects of any kind. That means NO loops, NO reverb, NO delay, etc, etc. Just a harp mic direct into the amp. preferably a selection of mics if you have them. If not then something well known like a bullet or a 545 would be the best example.
You need to use the same harp and mic and play the EXACT same riffs. This does not mean noodling. Play clear concise riffs that utilise chords, octaves, singles notes, double stops, etc. Play a mix of fast, medium and slow riffs. Try playing some straight blues, some modern blues, some rock to demonstrate the amps sound over a range of styles. this will give people who play other styles of music, some kind of insight into whether or not either amp is suitable for their particular needs.
You need to use the exact same recording equipment in the same room and at the same distance from the amps.
Only then can people gain a true unbiased view of what each amp sounds like.
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HarpNinja
1857 posts
Nov 07, 2011
9:43 AM
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Kingley,
It is IMPOSSIBLE to play the exact same thing the exact same way twice. You listed seven different things to play....way too many variables to control from amp to amp, let alone remember to play!
I will for 100% use the looper, as it is the single biggest factor in other A/B videos showing bias or not being complete.
As I am going to try and mic/record each amp separately, I won't need to split the signal and can simply plug and unplug when switching amps - so there will be one pedal in between the mic and amps.
If I wanted to use my "toys" I'd do a totally different video for that, which I have.
The most scientific way to do this is to isolate as many variables as possible. By NOT looping, it creates way too many opportunities for human error. I would argue that not using a pre-recorded piece or loop is a huge fault of most comparison demos.
I will intentionally create a loop for each playing demo with both amps OFF. Then I will turn the first amp on with a e906 set just off axis of the speaker and then play the loop. I will stop the loop, try to position the mic in the closest off axis way on the second amp and repeat. As I jump between styles and keys and such, I will repeat the procedure.
As I have availability to other mics, I will try to include them. With the suggestions listed by others, I think the approach I am taking is extremely calculated compared to what even amp builders and such have for demos of their gear, etc.
***I don't recall writing about wanting to use any effects or such, or alluding to that. I originally thought splitting the signal would be a more efficient way of doing things with the Zoom used for recording, but since I am going to try and close-mic, I will have to record each by moving gear rather than just turning on/off amps. There is no benefit to splitting the signal anymore.
Furthermore, I'd be much more concerned about the quality of speakers used for playback than many of the other factors to consider.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
VHT Special 6 Mods
Last Edited by on Nov 07, 2011 9:49 AM
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