I recorded this video a little while ago. It’s pretty much right of the bat. I would be very pleased to hear what you think of it first of all. And second what I could do ito mprove the harp bits.
A friend of mine (a true musician..) noticed I’ve this tendency to always roll back to the root. And it would become more interesting to avoid that a bit more. Now that’s the advise I need! Hope to hear some more stuff in that category.
1. Pull up your video on YouTube 2. Below it is a box that says "share" click it 3. Now click the box that says embed 4. Copy the gobbledygook that is highlighted blue 5. Paste it here. ----------
K.Hungus, that is close. You type the text you want to appear as the link (I used the text "Like this") after what you typed above, and then close the whole thing with
I thought the whole song was very good, i dont think too many in an audience are gonna yell out 'hey man stop going back to your root'(note), if i could do a number like this i also would post it on the web.
Nice. Joan Osborne does a nice version of this. I can't find the album version online (I think she may have shot herself in the foot when she got involved in all those RIAA lawsuits. I know you've got to balance sales lost vs. sales gained, but I disagree with her math. Oh well.) Her live versions seem to play a little too fast. I like your version. It's a great song for harp (at least one of Joan's versions has someone playing harp on it.)
Thanks for the kind words Steamrollin Stan, I’ll keep it up then!
@ Nacoran I can’t find that version either. But she’s an amazing performer, and obviously a great singer. Never heard of the RIAA, do I wanna know? I do like downloading..
One of my favorites is Nat Riddles’s version on that street album. His affinity with the lady audience at the end is just brilliant, damn funny too. That last 12 bars is just sex on harp, astonish me every time I hear it
Hey, K_Hungus...I have no real criticism to offer other than to say this is one of my fav's to hear covered and I think you did a nice job. I think your note choices were tasteful and you didn't overplay like a lot of folks might do.
I thought the singing was just fine. You know what you can pull off and not pull off vocally and did just fine.
Keep it up. ---------- "Doo-Bee-Doo-Bee-Doo"-F. Sinatra
Your time drags a certain points when you are playing harp. Not all the time, but every now and then through the whole piece. Personally, I think it is extremely challenging to keep good time if one is playing to a backing track or overdubbing in a recording studio.
By time dragging i mean sometimes you are a little tentative starting a phrase and other times you linger on certain notes when you should be moving off them more crisply. Now, I'm being nitpicky since overall it sounds pretty good. The problem with overdubbing is that a recording gives you none of the little cues you get through interaction with other musicians in a live performance setting. So, the natural tenancy is wait and listen to the recording which can cause the player's time to drag a little. IMHO, it takes an enormous amount of effort, energy and concentration to consistently stay right with the tempo when overdubbing or playing with a backing track. FWIW.
I can't offer any advice but I can tell you that I enjoyed it. I really liked your take on the song, vocals included. That was interesting. I've been playing around with that song for awhile (I like to kind of do my own thing) so I am always interested in different interpretations of any song. I liked the harp and I liked the vocals. ---------- Tommy
@Tommy, I like you like it! I said it was played right of the bat. But I meant just the take, I had nothing really prepared. That triplet stuff really took some time to learn, and Gussow’s tab sheet of ‘help me’ and the lesson where absolutely crucial.
@hvy, thanks that’s interesting and sure worth a lot. But ooh..I’ve a hard time hearing the bits you exactly are referring to. The tentative part, I think I get... The draggin on not enough, I guess. Do you mean at 2.17-2.22? Yeah I like nitpicking!
My opinion is I play a little to straight at times, not laid back enough. And that warble is to fast, if you ask me. Some harp fills between the licks would be nice too, but it was kinda late (I live very dense).
I think you mean as well the overall timing, could be more consistent.
Last Edited by on Nov 03, 2011 10:51 AM
Notes have a value--whole note, half note, dotted half note, quarter note, eighth note, sixteenth note, etc. The value is defined by the beginning and the end the particular note. Now, this can be imposed as a matter of feel or as a matter of deliberate effort. But if a player gets too wrapped up in WHAT he's playing, it's easy to lose track of tempo--what value is being imposed on each note. One needs to play notes in relation to the time and tempo of everything else that's going on which is harder to do playing with a recording than playing live.
I mean some players have lousy time anyway, but I think it's really hard to keep good time overdubbing even you have good time to begin with.
Yeah, 2:17-2:22 is the most flagrant episode of dragging on although there's a little towards the beginning, too. Decide when you are done with each note and either STOP or MOVE to the next note IN TEMPO. Don't linger while you make up your mind. It's a subtle thing, but pretty important to the overall sound.
Last Edited by on Nov 03, 2011 11:16 AM
That is great advise hvyj, really priceless! At 2.17-2.20 I can hear my self waiting for the IV chord to do that triplet thingy…not too sure when the switch comes
Could you please, please to a quick scan on this recording too? You gave me some excellent insight, I’d say a new way of listening (playing too). The things is I’ve very little musictheory background. But I can always put some more practice in note duration, thanks a lot!!
This one is pretty good. You use notes of different durations and play them very much in tempo. The long note held starting around 1:12 was in tempo even though it was held for a long time. There's 2 or 3 spots where you could be a little crisper/cleaner but none of us are perfect. You're in meter, in tempo,and your time for the overwhelming most part is pretty good.
I have no formal music theory training either, but I've had the good fortune to play with some really good musicians over the years and managed to pick up a basic working knowledge of theory from them. If you need /want to work on your time use a metronome.
Remember, it's NOT about the harmonica. It's about the MUSIC. So a player needs to pay attention to how what he is doing/playing fits with the rest of what's being played. A bandleader I work with once told me that the difference between an amateur musician and a professional musician is that he amateur focuses his attention on what he's playing and what he's going to play. A professional concentrates on how what he's playing fits with the overall sound. Pretty good advice, I think.
Last Edited by on Nov 03, 2011 2:05 PM
Thanks for posting the song and asking for critiques. I enjoyed your take on the song and the vocals worked very well. I’m just beginning my musical journey from the musician side. Having been a long time audiophile I’ve managed to develop a bit of an ear for listening. I can usually tell when something seems off but, without a music background I often times didn’t know what was off. As a beginning player I know timing is currently my biggest hurdle. Hvyj’s comments about your post have given me a lot of valuable information on how to better approach this step in my development.
So, thanks again for posting and thanks Hvyj for taking the time to critique…your courage to post and Hvyj’s insight has probably helped more people than ya’ll realize.
hi K, i thought for a quick take this was a fine effort. i'm not one much for covering the big harp guys, i have been so inspired by them but i wanted from early on to have a signature sound and style. which i think i do but i surely flopped a lot of times trying to find my way! but it is in fact great mental and physical exercise to work on stuff like this. some years ago, when i was just beginning to play some in 3rd position in a chromatic, i began trying to follow william clarke on "the work song". talk about tough. i nearly went crazy. this is a good piece of work. i can tell you are not totally comfortable with your voice as yet and i know you will become so with practice, and with finding the depth in your torso. deep breathing and relaxed singing and playing is where you find your true voice. i encourage you to keep working, playing, and posting! peace love and blues ---------- http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
@hvyj Thank you for taking the time again! I hoped this one would be better, cause I planned it out more. Especially what to do on bars 9-11 and bar 1, I always have a blackout there. That bandleader had some great advise indeed. I’ll sure remember that, though I need to find some steady rolling blues people first. It seems quite hard to find some folks under 60..
@smwoerner I’m touched by your kind words, just wonderful. If you’re an audiophile, I’m sure you’d have a good feel for mixing down your own recordings someday (if you already don’t). It may not be obvious (hopefully) but that last recording (not the help me), is digital enhanced quite a bit. I used a trick I red somewhere online. I put a little reverb on the backingtrack, and put the same reverb over de harp track, but with less decay time. It sort of creates an illusion the harp is closer for the listener.
@Jbone, Thank you too! Checking out your site right know. Wow, great singing too. I’ll work on the singing!
You’ve all been so kind and helpful, I love it out here!
The problem with playing along with recordings is that you have no have no musical interaction with the other musicians. So you only focus on what YOU are playing--like, for example planning what to do on bars 9-11.
I'm not suggesting that thinking through a part to play is a bad idea. But a player who only works on pre-planned parts will tend to try to force feed the pre-planned lick over whatever is being played in a live performance situation whether or not it fits well.
Go to a jam and play whatever with whoever. Get out of your comfort zone and try to play what fits. You'll learn more in 20 minutes playing live on stage than you will playing at home to backing tracks for 2 months. Just a suggestion.
True story: I was at a jam last week and this guitar player comes in who likes to play "Little Wing" which is very doable on harp in 5th position but he also likes to play a whole lot of other material that is not as harp friendly. I don't usually enjoy playing with him but he likes playing with me because i can play LW proficiently. Anyway, I made it a point to go up and play with him specifically in order to get out of my comfort zone. I found out that i was able to get around on "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" pretty well using 5th position, but that i can't seem to figure out the changes to "Love the One You're With" which sounds like it should be easily playable in 2nd position. But, You know, since i kept good time, listened to the other musicians, didn't overplay and picked my spots, I didn't screw up the tune all that badly. But it gives me something to work on that will improve my playing. Blues is great, but there's more to music than 12 bar blues tunes with I-IV-V changes. And even if you only are interested in just playing blues, getting out there jamming with other musicians and getting out of your comfort zone will improve your playing even if it's purely a blues jam.
Btw, I don't think age makes any difference. If a cat can play he can play whether he's 60+ or 18, which is pretty much the age range of the players at most jams i go to.
Last Edited by on Nov 04, 2011 10:58 AM
I totally get your point hvyj and completely agree. Nice story man, I got one too.
I once was at a jam, just this one time. It was in a coffeeshop, here in Amsterdam. I was drunk out of my skull, with a D harp on me. There was this real (Australian or English) guitar bluesguy, singing, creating songs on the spot. He had a weekly jam at that shop. Another harmonica player sat in, he was allover the place. Not too good, a bit off pitchwise. Despite my intoxication I could notice the irritation by the other players. I anxiously played along a 12 bar structure. I felt true connection and the song sounded pretty good. He gave me this great compliment afterwards, he told me I had a good vibe going, and good ears! All I did was comping the main chord and riff, and copying/echoing his vocals to the best of my ability. I may have done some attempt at a solo, but I can’t remember. He told me to come back next time. When I finally had that courage, and the practice done I thought I needed, the shopkeeper told me the jamsessions had ended. He had now idea where he went, but he knew he lives in Amsterdam, so recommended some shops he also frequently visited. I’m still looking for Steve. Moral of the story, lotta self blame.
About age, I’m looking for some beginning bluesbands in search of a harp player online sometimes. If I ever find an option, it’s always grey old man. I probably should focus more on (actually) goin to jams. It’s not so lively down here though, but I know this one place..and should F’ing do it!
Feeling that connection and getting a vibe going is, IMHO, what it's about. When it's happening it's like a little bit of magic that you NEVER get playing with a recording.
Getting a regular gig playing harmonica is pretty difficult. Getting out to jams or other playing situations where you meet and play with other musicians is probably the best way to make connections. And you learn stuff while you're doing it which should improve your playing.
FWIW, the 2 regular paying blues gigs I presently have (one with a band and one as a duo) both developed as a result of my sitting in with jazz bands. Talk about getting out of one's comfort zone! I'm not a jazz player, but I have a limited repertoire of simple jazz tunes I can kinda sorta handle. i don't OB but I do play in multiple positions. Each of the jazz band leaders were sort of impressed with my creativity and how i could get around on a diatonic. Each of these guys is a full time professional musician with an advanced degree in music and each plays with multiple bands. They each also teach. Anyway, there's a market for booking blues, so one of them put together a blues band and the other (after using me as a sideman on some non-jazz non-blues gigs) put together a blues duo and I got hired to play based my ability to do more than just re-cycle SOS blues licks when i perform. So it was getting out of my comfort zone by trying to play a little jazz that landed me a couple of really good blues gigs. Count my blessings. Btw, there's another guitarist/vocalist (who i met at jams) who also hires me from time to time. i think I get that gig because i can handle minor keys competently since he does a lot of playing in minor keys, and we would play minor key material when we'd play at jams. So, taking advantage of the available opportunities to play out is a great way to learn and you also get to meet other compatible players while you're at it.
Last Edited by on Nov 05, 2011 1:23 PM
I think it’s so hard to get a regular blues gig, because the harmonica is relative easy to just pick up and play. For lots of folk, the little extra bluesiness from just the sound is good enough (in a few songs of a set). So often the singer plays a little harp here and there.
Nice story. I’ve a question for you, I hope you could answer. If you had to recommend one (or two) Jazz albums, to a non complicated player like me, what would it be?
Please don’t make it to obsure..I have to be able to find it. Have a good weekend!
If anybody else has recommendations I’d like to hear them too!
Last Edited by on Nov 05, 2011 9:49 AM
Miles Davis KIND OF BLUE has at least 3 tunes playable on diatonic harp. "All Blues" and "Freddie Freeloader" are playable in 2nd position. "So What' is playable in 3rd position, but you need to use TWO harps (an Eb and a Db) you switch when the chord changes a half step and then switch back. This is a great album, btw.
Eddie Harris and Les McCann SWISS MOVEMENT was recorded live at Montreaux and has "Cold Duck Time" on it. The sax part is playable in 3rd position and the turn around is perfect for harp.
You say: "the harmonica is relative easy to just pick up and play. For lots of folk, the little extra bluesiness from just the sound is good enough (in a few songs of a set)." What you say is absolutely true. So if you are going to get paying gigs playing harp it will be because you can consistently do things the casual harp player can't do. So, you can't be a one trick pony just playing playing SOS blues licks all the time--you need a much larger bag of tricks.
Can you play in different kinds of minor keys all night long if the gig requires it? Most harp players can't and I guarantee you that a singer or guitarist who blows a little harp won't be able to.
Check this out:
John Coltrane's "Equinox" is a minor key blues. Lays out great for diatonic harp if you know how to play in 4th position. A singer who plays a little harp probably would not be able to handle this tune, and 2nd position blues licks won't cut it either. Obviously you wouldn't try to play the sax solo note-for-note, but the head is playable note-for-note on harp and the chords are simple to solo over in 4th position if you can cop the groove and phrasing. It's not blues band material, but it is blues.
The cool thing about doing a tune like "Equinox" on diatonic harp is that the expressiveness of the diatonic harp allows you interpret the tune with a serious level of emotional expression more intense than a sax player can ordinarily achieve. A harp player playing jazz on a diatonic w/o OBs may have to compromise certain note selections, but some of these tunes can be played with a very high level of emotional intensity on amplified harp beyond what a horn can ordinarily do. That's the cool thing about playing diatonic harp--if you are able to play well enough to express yourself on the instrument, it's possible to convey real emotion in your playing because of the nature of the instrument. And, IMHO, that's what it's all about anyway.
I don't pretend to be a great player. But i can get around on a diatonic competently in different styles and in different positions. Most harp players I've run into can't, even though some of them may actually be very good players with technique stronger than mine. If a player is really good, but just plays the same material every other blues harp player tries to play, but just plays it better, i think it's hard for that player to get work unless the player forms his own blues band for that purpose.
This is just my take on it my take on it. But I'm just a hobbyist, not a professional player.
Last Edited by on Nov 05, 2011 1:51 PM
Btw, there's a funky Miles Davis tune "Jean-Pierre" from the WE WANT MILES album that's a great tune to play on harp especially using pedalboard electronics. Here's a version by Mike Stern (who was the guitar player on WWM):
The head is playable note-for-note in 2nd position. To say that one can improvise very freely on this tune is an understatement. That's why it's great for using pedalboard electronics. The original is at a slower tempo.
Thanks for this elaborate response hvyj. Your opinions on what it takes to get ‘out there’ where really inspiring as well. I’m now off to get ‘kind of blue’!
You know, learning to play a little jazz is helpful for reasons other than being able to play a little jazz. You may or may not have opportunities to actually play jazz, and jazz cats may or may not be receptive to having a diatonic harmonica player sit it since, among other things, it requires them to limit the material to stuff the harp player can handle and they may or may not be willing to dumb it down for part of a set.
BUT, if you can learn to play a little jazz, it will improve your playing other styles of music including blues because it will get you playing NOTES rather than riffs. It will also make your playing more musical in general and break you out of playing the SOS, so your playing necessarily becomes more creative and more interesting. It will also force you to learn to get around on the instrument instead of just playing familiar patterns.
Not everyone will agree, but I think learning to play a little jazz is better for developing one's blues chops than learning to play blues harp solos note for note. Not that learning blues harp solos isn't good exercise, but the point is to develop more of an individual voice on the instrument, instead of just learning to play stuff that's been played before and is widely imitated. But, of course, there are other ways to go about it. FWIW.
Last Edited by on Nov 07, 2011 1:13 PM
@hvyj Yeah, I completely understand long notes vs. licks. I also think you’ll become more aware tone wise and it’ll improve playing on a melodic level. It’s just there’s al lot of Jazz I just can’t stand. I don’t have that love-hate relationship with blues.
@Honkin On Bobo Haha, I do care about fixing the cable though
Well, the distinction I was making has nothing to do with the LENGTH of the notes being played. A lot of harp players learn blues riffs which are phrases in a certain pattern that often work over a wide variety of blues material. Some players who learn riffs don't actually think in terms of notes and they are more comfortable playing the familiar pattern. In other words, they select a pattern of notes to play because they are comfortable with the pattern instead of selecting particular notes to play that fit the music and the chords. Sometimes it's the same thing, but often players who think in terms of riffs tend to force fit the patterns they are comfortable with over whatever is being played.
Of course a riff is comprised of notes. Learning to play a little jazz will force a player to start selecting NOTES rather than just regurgitating riff patterns because the usual blues riff patterns generally won't work well on a jazz tune, even if the jazz tune is playable on diatonic w/o OBs. Notes can be selected by how they sound or by application of music theory. But thinking/playing in terms of NOTES is different than just playing familiar riff patterns.
Jazz is a very diverse genre of music and there are some very cool jazz tunes that are easily playable on diatonic w/o OBs if a player is willing to get out of the box a little. But you can't just rely on SOS blues licks in order to do it. However, once you learn to get out of the box and think in terms of NOTES your blues playing will become more sophisticated and more musical. Your blues playing will also become more interesting because you won't just be playing the same well worn licks that every other harp player seems to be playing. It is very possible to play authentic blues with an original voice. The blues ain't dead, so they shouldn't be embalmed.
Last Edited by on Nov 09, 2011 8:07 AM
That’s interesting man..for me a great breakthrough was the realization that a lick (e.g. -4 -4’ -3 2) can be played a billion (if not infinite) different ways if you think of varying the notes ‘in time’, if that makes any sense. Of course the way it's layed out it's still a patern, I get that. Do you happen to have a youtube page? I’d like to hear more!
Last Edited by on Nov 09, 2011 5:17 PM
I'm not really a jazz player. I can kinda sorta handle a very limited repitore of selected jazz material, but I'm certainly not qualified to be tutoring anyone about playing jazz.
Yeah that’s even better, you can approach it from a bluesharper’s perspective, besides you won’t charge 50$ an hour.. I know I’m probably annoyingly optimistic. I get your point.
