Blueharper
189 posts
Oct 24, 2011
11:47 AM
|
The new company has expressed a firm commitment to filling our backorders. It
will be sending out a communication to you in the coming weeks, you should be
hearing from them soon via email announcing the new home and how backorders will
be handled.
Has this happened for anyone YET?
|
LSB
59 posts
Oct 24, 2011
12:35 PM
|
I have 5 harps on order, haven't received any email from the new ownership. Not a good way to start off as far as I am concerned.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.......
Last Edited by on Oct 24, 2011 12:37 PM
|
Buzadero
885 posts
Oct 24, 2011
4:41 PM
|
I email them once a week. For the past three months, I have had ZERO response.
In 6 weeks, it will be 3 years since my 2 harp order was paid in full via PayPal. It only took 19 months to get the first one.
I've stopped giving any serious consideration to those pathetic optimists that want to water down the issue by claiming that certain keys were done in batches, that founding a business is tough, that Harrison is a good guy and was "trying really hard", or any other excuse-by-proxy.
I pre-paid in full. That was a mistake. Pure and simple. The keys that I ordered (A and Bb) were filled for others before mine at seemingly random intervals. It may be that these were for squeekier wheels, those with more social clout on a personal level with Harrison, or some other poor rationale. But, I suspect that pre-paying in full dropped me down whatever list existed.
You'll never convince me otherwise.
----------
~Buzadero
Underwater Janitor, Patriot
|
groyster1
1521 posts
Oct 24, 2011
5:20 PM
|
@Buzadero and LSB
if I were in your shoes I would probably drive to harrison and storm the palace-of course that would mean landing behind bars
|
RyanMortos
1169 posts
Oct 24, 2011
6:42 PM
|
I'm so glad my conscious persuaded me not to buy into the hype on these harmonicas. Hopefully they'll fix everything for all you guys that are still waiting.
----------
~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Steven Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
See My Profile for contact info, etc.
|
easyreeder
8 posts
Oct 24, 2011
9:36 PM
|
"You'll never convince me otherwise."
If you reject in advance any and all evidence contrary to what you've decided to believe you may satisfy your need for a bad guy but you deny yourself the opportunity to learn the truth when/if it becomes known. How can you hope to find the lesson in the experience that way?
You're angry, that's clear, and understandable. But insulting people for being comprehensive and willing to consider other possibilities or seeing it differently than you isn't reasonable. If you have evidence that other views can't possibly be true, sharing that might help you persuade them without the insults.
|
jbone
672 posts
Oct 24, 2011
9:51 PM
|
i prepaid as well. at this point i could care less what the real story is. i filled out a complaint with the prosecutor where harrison moved to and hope that at least someone gets some satisfaction after the bureaucratic wheels turn for a while.
that is the LAST time i trust a product sight unseen, at least for that kind of dough. i can stomach a $30 loss once in a while but $200 is way out of my league.
i do wonder where brad is these days and if he's got a pot to piss in. he shouldn't have, he should have a cell. i wonder just how many people bought into this scam? which to me is what it was, show a few really nice items to get the ball rolling and then rake in some dough for goods or services you have no intention of honoring.
----------
http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
|
Miles Dewar
1142 posts
Oct 24, 2011
10:04 PM
|
"In 6 weeks, it will be 3 years since my 2 harp order was paid in full via PayPal."
3 years. For ANY product. Wow.
|
Chickenthief
154 posts
Oct 24, 2011
10:31 PM
|
It's a nightmare.
I have the C harp. I love the way it plays, I would have 7 or 8 more keys if it were up to me. Never got my Bb, or G. I have no reason to question the original motives or intentions of the maker, but what a bitter disapointment to see something beautiful like that get lost and buried as a casualty to poor planning, bad business, whatever. I suppose the thing could go the way of the Tucker now.
In case I flat a reed...anyone know if it would be possible to fit a reed from another make onto it somehow?
Pretty damn sad.
|
BigBlindRay
133 posts
Oct 24, 2011
11:26 PM
|
@Chickenthief - MB reeds will fit perfectly.
----------
Big Blind Ray's YouTube Channel
Mavis and her China Pigs
|
BigBlindRay
134 posts
Oct 25, 2011
12:09 AM
|
Hi MBHers
From the bluesharmonica.com forum
Jon Harl is working with Brad to work on Backlog
Here are the exerpts from Jon in regards to questions about when the B-rads will ship again and the state of things:
24/08/2011
"The company's assets have been sold and we're working on the backlog. It's going to take a while to sort things out but all the harps will be delivered."
14/10/2011
"We're not going to ship harps until quite a few harps are made. It's a slow process to make each harp, there's quite a bit that goes into a B-Radical. Including being setup and tuned by hand. To make a long story short... probably not.
And I'm very reluctant to give a estimated time when they'll ship."
----------
Big Blind Ray's YouTube Channel
Mavis and her China Pigs
Last Edited by on Oct 25, 2011 12:09 AM
|
Buzadero
886 posts
Oct 25, 2011
5:53 AM
|
"If you reject in advance any and all evidence contrary to what you've decided to believe you may satisfy your need for a bad guy but you deny yourself the opportunity to learn the truth when/if it becomes known. How can you hope to find the lesson in the experience that way?
You're angry, that's clear, and understandable."
And, you're wrong. I am not "angry". I have never been "angry" over this. "Disgusted", yes. "Angry", no. A couple hundred bucks is a long way below my anger threshold.
However, my disgust runs deep. And, no. It doesn't blind me to any of the wonderful lessons of experience that you have deemed important to me. You have no idea the communications behind the scenes, or my connections and interactions with the Harrison people.
My disgust is mine and mine alone. I keep it fresh and it keeps me from being angry. However, I do save a little bit for those eternally blissful "other-cheekers" who would excuse anything in life as being an opportunity to view victimhood as some kind of learning experience.
It's a learning experience, alright. "Screw me once......"
easyreeder, how long is a legitimate and reasonable wait for a pre-paid item that was promised on defined dates no less than five times?
I'd be interested to hear you define at what point you acknowledge that someone has simply been fucked.
----------
~Buzadero
Underwater Janitor, Patriot
|
KingBiscuit
117 posts
Oct 25, 2011
6:29 AM
|
"We're not going to ship harps until quite a few harps are made."
WTF? This guy is dense as a brick. With all the controversy surrounding this topic, as soon as a single harp is completed, it should be going out in the mail. Why the hell would they be waiting until "quite a few harps" are made before they ship any out. They're probably all going to different addresses so how does batching them up help in any way? This makes no sense whatsoever. No wonder they went under.
Last Edited by on Oct 25, 2011 6:32 AM
|
The Iceman
155 posts
Oct 25, 2011
6:38 AM
|
Seems to me that to make one harmonic, ship it, make another harmonica, ship it is not the most efficient way for a company to catch up.
----------
The Iceman
|
LSB
60 posts
Oct 25, 2011
8:20 AM
|
Actually, from an efficiency standpoint, since the parts are made in batches - combs, covers, and I believe the reed plates and reeds as well, it's only the assembly, tuning and voicing that needs to be done one at a time. In that case, in the end, it would make no significant difference with regards to "catching up" if you were to ship completed harps daily, weekly, monthly or yearly, other than the fact that some people would get their harps sooner if the company were to ship earlier rather than later. For frame of reference, I say that as a former professional (handmade) woodwind maker who worked in a shop with a similar number of employees to Harrison.
I suspect there are political/PR/Customer Service reasons for not wanting to ship harps until all, or most of a given key are completed. That is assuming harps are actually being made in any significant quantity to begin with, which is not a given IMO. At any rate, if harps are being completed, I doubt the new owner (whoever that may be?) wants to deal with people calling, emailing, visiting, to ask where they are in line, when the harps will be delivered, why someone else got their harps first, wanting refunds instead of harps, etc., etc.
That said, personally I think it's bullshit for the new owner(s) not to at least have some communication with people who have money already paid who are waiting. And certainly the fact that Brad stated we should be hearing from the new owners soon, and that hasn't happened, is a bad sign. But I can't say I am surprised.
Last Edited by on Oct 25, 2011 8:32 PM
|
Chickenthief
155 posts
Oct 25, 2011
9:04 AM
|
Well thanks Ray. Good to know about th MB reeds.
So it's still alive? If someone could put serious money behind the thing it would be nice to have it around. Maybe it will never be a contender for big market share.
If they maintain high standards insofar as setting them up to close tolerances the manufacturer would never be able to crank them out in big numbers. I don't see a factory somewhere in the future with rows of amish men hunched over tables where they tune B rads all day.
The big problem was never one of low turnout. Buzadero, and anyone else should naturally be disgusted at the state of things, but the real mistake was made when so many orders were accepted with no reasonable way of knowing when they could actually be filled. Not filling orders in a timely manner, grossly misrepresenting ETAs, holding someones money for years - you will just make people crazy as we've seen.
The relationship between these guys and their inherited customers is broken but the harmonica itself is worth having around even when the price goes up ( a given ) and it stays hard to get.
Just belay the bullshit is all I would have to say to the new guys in charge. Joe Filiskos harps are nigh well impossible to get but then again he probably does what he says and says what he does most of the time so no one complains.
For me the basic B rad design and playability is right on, so if someone could just get things squared somehow it would be good to at least see the basic design survive all this.
|
easyreeder
9 posts
Oct 25, 2011
10:54 AM
|
@Buzadero, I don't presume to know what's important to you, but I believe lessons learned from comprehensive knowledge are more useful than conclusions reached early and held on to without regard to new and relevant information. There's a dearth of verifiable information about the Harrison saga, but there's no shortage of people defending him as a martyred saint or calling him the devil himself. I think the truth lies somewhere between the extremes of opinion we see expressed, and I don't think the general harmonica buying public has heard it yet. Perhaps they never will.
You are right that I have no idea of your back story on the subject, which is why I suggested you share it instead of insulting people who have a different perspective. It was your lashing out at folks with a different opinion that gave me the impression you are angry about it.
"easyreeder, how long is a legitimate and reasonable wait for a pre-paid item that was promised on defined dates no less than five times?"
I don't know why you're asking me this question; I didn't defend Harrison's business practices. But since you did ask, I'd probably be pretty annoyed after the second delay and with the third I'd have been angry/disgusted/pick-your-emotion. My mood would go down-hill from there. As I said, your anger/disgust is understandable.
"I'd be interested to hear you define at what point you acknowledge that someone has simply been fucked."
I'd say you're there already, but the way you describe it makes it sound like you think somebody did it to you on purpose. You invested in a start-up company that went bust, and you lost half your investment. From what little information we have it seems to me that it's possible you'll eventually receive your second B-rad, but even if that happens the true cost will be higher than what you paid because you lost the earning power of your investment. So it still wasn't a good investment. But maybe the new company will sweeten the deal with discounts on future B-rad purchases, or other reparation (the pathetic optimist's view). Or maybe they'll go belly-up as well and you'll never see your second harp. I don't think the story is over yet.
I hope you'll get your second harp, and I hope the new company succeeds, and I hope that Brad Harrison's talent and ingenuity isn't lost to the harmonica world.
|
KingBiscuit
118 posts
Oct 25, 2011
10:57 AM
|
"Seems to me that to make one harmonic, ship it, make another harmonica, ship it is not the most efficient way for a company to catch up."
"Not the most efficient"...REALLY? do you think this company actually be concerned with efficiency? I don't think it's possible for them to be less efficient than they have been. Are we sure the government doesn't really own Harrison Harmonicas?
Since they appear to have specialists for everything else, I'm assuming they have a shipping department. That being said, as soon as a harp is complete, the shipping department should be sending it out. My point is, in this environment, if this were my company, I would do whatever it takes to get harps out to customers that have been waiting years. Since most people ordered 1 or 2 harps, why not send whatever is available. At worst, you'd make a couple of different shipments to the same address. They would be doing this anyway since different keys seem to be done at different times.
|
LittleBubba
119 posts
Oct 25, 2011
12:27 PM
|
For everybody's sake, I hope their record keeping was good. In my business, when things take a long time to develop, stuff can get lost and things go wrong.
The fact that there has apparently been no systematic communication is a bad sign. Usually you would expect a blanket mailing to all customers who have submitted a deposit or prepayment announcing what the game plan is.
The lack of communication--or just piecemeal communiques- is a very bad sign, imo.
It's one thing to say what you are going to do, but when there's no evidence to date.....
Last Edited by on Oct 25, 2011 12:28 PM
|
HarpNinja
1811 posts
Oct 25, 2011
12:38 PM
|
A few weeks ago I spoke to someone in the Harrison camp. I was told things I am not able to share publically, but there were some topics I was allowed to share my thoughts on publically. I chose not to say anything at the time in hopes some of the Harrison threads would die down (why stir the pot?). I am only even sharing now as individuals have been brought up by name.
This will be the one and only time I say any of this...
1. I honestly believe the people involved with this are seriously attempting to keep it going and fill all the back orders as we speak. I would be floored to learn that a Harrison Harmonica is available for purchase before the back orders are filled.
2. I've always been critical of his business model, but what did Brad in ultimately (the last straw, not the only one, IMO) was out of his hands...and, IMO, he fought tooth and nail...I wasn't told that, but in response to my questions, I was convinced Brad had the best of intentions and worked very hard to see them through...that is just my take. I don't know Brad and have never even exchanged an email with him.
3. The company who bought them out - and I specifically asked that this person not tell me who it is - is making the decisions now. They are intentionally keeping a low profile and have intentionally decided to not ship harps here and there until they've put other fires out.
The situation sucks, I have money invested in a product I've never received, etc, etc. I didn't find this person and hound them for info...they actually came to me as they knew I was waiting on a harp...happy coincidence of sorts, I guess.
Regarding John Harl and his comments on the bluesharmonica.com forum...
I do know John (not as a member of HH, but we both do custom work and have had several chats on the phone, etc.). So I guess I don't really know what he really knows about what is going on with this. I do know, though, that he isn't calling a shots.
Jon is easily one of the best harmonica guys I've ever met. I've met a ton of harmonica players/business people who run in the online crowd. I really don't have any experiences to relay with anybody, in fact, quite the opposite, but in a community of people who are so kind, so generous, so thoughtful, and so driven, Jon is a true scholar and gentleman of the harmonica!
He also has some pretty impressive friends who support him. I look forward to a face-to-face meeting with Jon soon. Fantastic asset to our community.
----------
Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
VHT Special 6 Mods
|
harpdude61
1137 posts
Oct 25, 2011
1:19 PM
|
Share them publicly...if you were told...all should be told.
I can almost accept the total screw-up that this thing was...but if I screwed up something this badly I would feel like a total criminal if I did not plee for forgiveness and correspond on a regular basis with those who have sent me their hard earned dollars.
No excuse whatsoever...it is a lack of moral fiber not to communicate ...even if you can't get them harps or a refund right away.
If I were a judge hearing this case. the lack of good intention toward paid customers would truly disturb me.
|
Honkin On Bobo
828 posts
Oct 25, 2011
1:29 PM
|
ninja,
I am sincerely not trying to start a fight here, but if you've been told stuff that you can't talk about publicly, then why weigh in with this comment?
How does the cryptic statement that what ultimately did Harrison in was not his fault and that he fought "tooth and nail", help anybody form an opinion about the situation when no further information is offered?
It's like the Jason Ricci thread a while back, when people were saying ..."hey, I spoke to Jason personally, but I can't tell you all anything".
I mean, WTF is up with that? If you've had a conversation with someone, but can't say anything substantive due to confidentiality promises, then why post to the thread at all?
just sayin'
Last Edited by on Oct 25, 2011 3:56 PM
|
harponica
12 posts
Oct 25, 2011
2:00 PM
|
My advice to all harmonica players in this time of transition.Turn your attention to Seydel,Hohner,Suzuki,etc. and ask if they will replicate the B-radical to some legal degree and all will be happy and satisfied.
|
nacoran
4803 posts
Oct 25, 2011
3:03 PM
|
Honkin, that's always a touchy subject. Sometimes when you know something because you are on the in you feel you have some information you can share but you have to explain how you know it. You share what you are allowed to and hope that your reputation gives it some of the gravitas it would have had if you could have divulged your sources or more of what you know. I've been on both sides of situations like that, and as an outsider in this situation I'd like to know as much as I can, even if it means someone has to phrase it like that. Sometimes knowing a secret is great. Other times it's the loneliest feeling in the world.
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
|
easyreeder
12 posts
Oct 25, 2011
10:26 PM
|
LSB, I was speaking metaphorically, should have been more clear. I disagree with you about the implied risk, I think it was there all along. When Harrison began taking advance orders it seemed clear to me that they hadn't produced harmonicas for sale yet and were offering a discount in order to generate cash flow to capitalize the venture. In that sense, everybody who ordered and paid in advance was a venture capitalist. Paying in advance for something that hasn't been produced yet is just a way to finance the creation of the product, otherwise why would it be necessary? Even though you didn't get a stock certificate, you were pumping dollars into the company in hope of a product, you didn't pick the product off a shelf and say "I'll pay for this one". I think the risk was easy to see and the net impact is like buying stock in a company that goes busts
|
jbone
674 posts
Oct 26, 2011
4:52 AM
|
Last Edited by on Oct 26, 2011 10:13 AM
|
HarpNinja
1812 posts
Oct 26, 2011
5:59 AM
|
The reason why I try and stay out of a lot of this is the totally deflected emotions of people. Everyone just jumps to conclusions to fuel their own rage, need for revenge, and vent.
Frankly, I don't owe anyone sh!t in regards to HH. I have it on excellent authority that they are seriously trying to fill back orders, Brad didn't just jump ship as fast as he could, and the current lack of info/contact is the responsibility of the buyer.
These threads are stupid. They are started with bad intentions and then everyone gets internet-strong in talking a bunch of trash about what they want to speculate in order to spread hate. Since HH doesn't care, people turn on each other. It is Lord of the Flies-like...a witch hunt of sorts.
A business went bankrupt and totally mishandled itself. People got screwed and are upset...I get that...I am part of that. I am not selling false hope. I only commented as these threads end up uglier and uglier and 90% of the people going off have no clue what is/isn't going on.
Most the facts, at this point, are irrelevant in regards to the company. You are a fool to think that this late in the game you're going to get more support from HH. All that matters is if they are going to continue to fill back orders and make new harmonicas. I am saying that that is still their intent.
Will that happen? I don't know. Personally, I've heard evidence that if any more B-Rads are every made/produced, they will be done so to fill existing orders first.
I know enough bullies in real life that I don't need to hang around forums like this to try and be pushed around. I try to share what I can when I can (about anything harmonica), but I don't owe that to anyone and I sure don't need to break friendships and show a lack of integrity to please anyone in this thread in regards to anything Harrison related.
----------
Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
VHT Special 6 Mods
|
Philosofy
398 posts
Oct 26, 2011
7:01 AM
|
I wonder if a HH owner can try something: when these first came out, they touted the ability to change a single reed. Can someone take one for the team and order a single reed to see how long it takes to ship?
|
harpwrench
538 posts
Oct 26, 2011
7:49 AM
|
Better order extra screws too, lol.
|
KingoBad
969 posts
Oct 26, 2011
8:50 AM
|
Now I know funny, and THAT was funny!
----------
Danny
|
Blueharper
190 posts
Oct 26, 2011
10:18 AM
|
Harp Ninja,I did not start this thread with bad intent. I am one, who ordered all keys up front and paid up front. I only asked if anyone has been contacted by the new management,as was stated in a communication from HH.
|
GEEZER1
132 posts
Oct 26, 2011
1:29 PM
|
Harrison Harmonica seems to be a festering sore, any time anyone wants to start a rhubarb they post something about it and the nastiness is revisited. Makes for good reading, but people should post when they know hard cold facts about what the company that took over for HH is doing, instead of promises.
|
harpdude61
1138 posts
Oct 26, 2011
2:27 PM
|
Lots of good points guys....but it seems to me that if someone is taking over the company (or not) that priority #1 should be to communicate with people who have paid money.
It really does not matter how or why it happened, but I promise you the first step to making it right is to COMMUNICATE.
|
jbone
675 posts
Oct 26, 2011
6:06 PM
|
maybe the first step is to dig through all the records and find out just how many harps are in arrears to us customers. then when that information is established a list of priorities ie who's been waiting the longest gets accommodated first etc etc. i know there are guys who have waited longer than me and i would expect them to get taken care of before me. by the same token i'd like to see a harp when my number comes up.
i am not trying to be a hater here. i am disappointed and irritated and i kick myself when i think i sent $200 off with no knowledge of who i was giving it to. and as for "investment", no. there was no investment.
what there was, was a prepaid purchase of goods. my bad. but fair is fair. if my money was spent to fill a backlog that was ahead of me, and someone else's money was supposed to fill my order, that's in no way my fault or responsibility.
so the saga continues.
----------
http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
|
LSB
63 posts
Oct 26, 2011
9:15 PM
|
easyreeder you are off the mark again: I placed my order when B-Rads were already in production, not during the pre-production phase. Customers were already receiving harps by then and Harrison was stating that the harmonicas were currently being produced at the time I placed my order. I won't waste more time arguing the matter, your opinion not withstanding, it certainly wasn't an "investment" by any legal standard here in the United States. Nor would it likely be considered so legally for those who ordered during preproduction. If you want to point me towards some specific laws and/or legal decisions contradicting that, please feel free to post them.
|
Sally-harp
1 post
Oct 27, 2011
6:16 PM
|
Those Harrison harmonicas must be very good if everyone wants one so badly.
Can someone tell me where I can order one today?
|
easyreeder
13 posts
Oct 27, 2011
7:49 PM
|
LSB, as I said, I was speaking metaphorically, it wasn't meant to be taken literally, and I wasn't trying to re-write history or paint things in a more flattering light. Everybody who pre-paid and didn't receive suffered financial damage. You in particular took a big hit. My point was that the financial impact is similar to losing on an investment when you order something that doesn't exist yet and don't receive it. It seems clear to me that the harps were being built to order, and they were way behind schedule from early on in the game. Yes, they were building harps, but not your harps.
If HH told you they had completed harps in inventory and would ship them upon receipt of your payment then you're right, the metaphor is off the mark. But that's not what I understand was happening. If I"m wrong about that, and you'd care to correct my misunderstanding, I'll listen.
|
LSB
64 posts
Oct 27, 2011
8:35 PM
|
easyreeder, as I said, I don't care to waste more time debating the issue, we can agree to disagree and save everyone else what must, by now, be rapidly becoming a tedious exchange.
And for the record, I didn't pay in full for 5 harps, I only paid the deposit for 5 harps. Still sucks to have lost a few hundred bucks, but it's not as bad for me as it could have been.
|
nacoran
4811 posts
Oct 27, 2011
9:06 PM
|
Sally-harp, sometimes you can find them on eBay, but they always have someone else's name stamped on them! :)
Some people got their harps. Some people didn't. In an age where corporations are people, let's call this one dead. Sure, some paramedics are working on the corpse, but unless you are a fan of zombies what's the use? Shoot it in the head and be done with it. We've been pulling off this bandaid forever.
Let's be careful with our headlines. This thread doesn't really contain any new news. I don't think it was done with bad intentions, but it ended up being a little bit of a bait and switch. If someone actually has some news, that's fine, but until then, let's let this one die.
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
|
bluemoose
631 posts
Oct 28, 2011
9:48 AM
|
The topic of this thread was the subject line of the last email sent out by HH on Aug 4 2011. The first paragraph is a quote from the email.
Innocent question as to if anyone had actually received anything in the 3 months since.
Could have been formatted better to clarify things but no bad intention.
MBH Webbrain - a GUI guide to Adam's Youtube vids
FerretCat Webbrain - Jason Ricci's vids (by hair colour!)
|
