You tech guys are the best! For someone that doesn't know a watt from a volt from an ohm from a btu...I really appreciate you guys.
I understand that one of the above has four 10" speakers while the other has one 12" and one 10"...and the 4 by 10 costs $150 more.
Beyond that, what are the differences and my biggest question is....which one is less prone to feedback for whatever reason?
On my Double Trouble I have a volume and tone button. To be honest the amp sounds best when the tone button is at the lowest setting. This seems true whether I use my Ultimate 57 or my bullet? You would think the ideal setting would be in the middle somewhere and work from there.
The 50s have Bass, Middle, and Treble besides the volume. Seems like I remember someone posted a photo of Ricci's HG50 and all the settings were at the bottom. Are they low enough. Doesn't seem to give you anywhere to go when the settings are best at the bottom?
I really apprecaite comments. This is a big investment for anybody.
Last Edited by on Oct 20, 2011 9:00 AM
The only amp I ever tried with a 12 and a 10 (1x12, 2X10) was a Meteor and it sounded great if you like a distortion type of tone. Never tried an HG 12+10. But, personally, I LOVE 10s for harp. They are tight and punchy and seem to respond well tonally for harp playing. I think 12s in general tend to sound a little shriller for harp and are more prone to feed back than 10s, but that's a very general statement and i would assume the 12 in the HG is very carefully selected, so what I'm saying may not be true for the HG.
Unlike most players who've tried them, I'm just not all that impressed with most of the harp specific amps I've played through. But a lot of players seem to like them a lot, so mine is definitely a minority opinion.
Last Edited by on Oct 20, 2011 9:21 AM
Personally, I'd go with a 410 over a 1210. Just more raw power behind it, but always controlable.
I've thought about a 1210 setup, but not in a combo. I've thought about building a 1210 cabinet of my own, probably with Blue Marvels, and then getting an amphead of some kind. An old Silvertone would be ideal if I could find one for a decent price, but I'm gonna try blowing through my friend's Fender Bandmaster with a 1x12 cabinet tomorrow night and let ya'll know what I think of that amphead.
In terms of your tone issue on your DT, that's really odd that your amp sounds better with the tone control at minimum. My Zoo 2 sounds ballsy and fat with it all the way up, and gets more cleanly as you turn it down. I've found this to be true with SS amps with a single tone control as well, and on SS amps with low/mid/hi controls, it's clean and dry with all three balanced at the mid-marks as you might expect. ---------- Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by on Oct 20, 2011 9:30 AM
"On my Double Trouble I have a volume and tone button. To be honest the amp sounds best when the tone button is at the lowest setting. This seems true whether I use my Ultimate 57 or my bullet? You would think the ideal setting would be in the middle somewhere and work from there." I see what you're saying, but in reality the situation is that "at giggable volume" your tone pot is rolled all the way off, you may find that if you want to play the amp at lower volume, say at home or in the studio, that it may be possible to use the tone pot at a higher setting, as less volume will dull the amp off...in short they affect each other. The idea that controls set halfway is "in the middle/flat/stock" etc., is a complete fallacy (unless you have an Orange amp & very few other models), most volumes and tone controls (inc. most treble & bass controls, but not middle) are "audio/logarithmic" taper pots, meaning that they turn up slow & when set at 12o'clock they may only be 10-30% of the way up! This generally translates as better "useability".
Builders tend to hedge their bets with pot sizes as lots of harp players are used to using guitar amps & because tastes & mics vary. Bridging the 2 outside tabs of your tone pot with a resistor to change the pot value is an option but if "off" sounds best, then off is where you set it (all pots are pretty much the same when off)...you're not being done out of anything - you can look at it as "maximum treble cut", or "minimum treble boost" depending on whether you are a cup half full/half empty kind of guy :-).
Jason's HG 50 is very unlikely to make any sound at all with ALL the pots at the lowest setting...take the picture with a pinch of salt. You could build an amp easily with all controls pre-set...but then you would struggle to dial it in with different mics/guitars.
Personally I would go with 4x10, 10"s are a little less directional making them more feedback resistant, they push a bigger sound wave than 1x10&1x12, which makes on stage monitoring a little easier & the more speakers you stick in a cabinet, the more efficient those speakers get (though 12's are often more efficient than 10"s & the differences may be less marked on the HG50s). 12"s can have better fidelity & disperse the sound better, have a beamier sound...I guess if I wanted max volume & punch I'd go 4x10", if I wanted a clearer sound I'd perhaps go with the 10&12 but Brian would really be the best person to advise on this, as exact speaker models used will be relevant. So I'd personally listen to Brian........then buy the 4x10" ;-)
---------- www.myspace.com/markburness
Last Edited by on Oct 20, 2011 9:44 AM
On my Double Trouble I have a volume and tone button. To be honest the amp sounds best when the tone button is at the lowest setting. This seems true whether I use my Ultimate 57 or my bullet?
I rarely run my Double Trouble with the tone control set to zero. With a bullet mic, I set the volume at 6 and the tone at 6. With a 545, I set the volume at 4 or 5 and the tone on 10.
I like the tone control on that amp. It cleans up the sound some and I found that the amp cuts through the mix a bit better with the tone control turned up.
heavy....hawk...5f....Joe You guys rock. I learned something from each of you.
Now..I feel like such a dumbass...I had no idea tone and volume were related. I've been playing even smaller venues with the volume almost wide open and the tone all the way down.
I can't wait to experiment now with volume vs. feedback vs. tone...and see what it does to my sound.
>>>>"Jason's HG 50 is very unlikely to make any sound at all with ALL the pots at the lowest setting...take the picture with a pinch of salt."
When I was taking lessons from Jason years ago in Florida, he'd borrow my old 59 Bassman RI for gigs sometimes and used it in the studio for his "Feel Good Funk" CD. He did indeed used to put all the knobs all the way down. I think he nudged up the presence knob to taste, and then just cranked the volume up till it sounded great. This was around 1999.
MN you can play a tweed bassman with the tone pots (treb, mid, bass) all the way off, but not a HG50, you must have at least some middle or bass otherwise all the signal is shunted to ground (you can set them low, just not off).
@harpdude61 - I always plug into input #1. Never used input #2.
I've used the line out on my amp several times. It worked as expected. The first few times I ran it into the computer while recording stuff for harmonicajam.com. It worked great. I used it a handful of times straight into the PA. Not a problem.
@eharp - That's the way the tone control works on my Double Trouble. It was consistent with the operation of the tone control on it's predecessor, a Fender Pro Jr.
Here is an example of the amp with a hi-Z 545 volume on 4, tone on 10.
Here is another one with a MC-151 Blues Blaster, volume on 8, tone on 0.
Owned the DT and 1210 at the same time. 1210 is a phenominal amp, my fav big amp ever. Kills the DT even at similar volumes. I mean kills it.
Imo, if the DT hs 90% of the volume you need, the 1210 has at least 125%...and miles moe bottom end. I seriously think the botom end rivals most 4x10s. I never gigged mine beyond 4. With tone controls on 2ish and volume on 3, it sounded like the DT I had with Weber ceramics and upgraded tubes. Fwiw, the stock DT isn't nearly as loud as my Webers and jj6v6.
The Double Trouble in the above video clips is completely stock. Stock Weber Signature alnico speakers and stock power tubes. (Don't remember the brand.) The preamp tube is an Electro Harmonix 12AY7.
Duane, after I played thru Deaks 59 Bassman RI at Roosters I went out and bought one. With several helping from this board I retubed it. It's loud but I mic it to the PA with a Seinheiser E906 like they did at Roosters any way. I am very pleased with the amp.The last gig I did I tried a trick from the pro's and split my mic signal. One to the Bassman and one to the my HG2. and mixed them at the PA, WOW! what tone and cutting volume. Get you a 4-10 Bassman RI and use your double trouble with it. I think you will bhe amaized at the results. THis just my opinion but you know me and I an't gona Bull Shit ya. Mike
On the feedback issue, I'd really have to say a lot of it would depend on what kind of mic you use with whichever amp. Lots of factors there...bullet or stick or vocal, omni or uni, gainy or v/c'd. ---------- Hawkeye Kane
"I'm not a retube kind of guy. If I pay $$$ I want it ready to play!"
Retubing is NBD. i mean, eventually your tubes will need to be replaced anyway. It's like changing tires on a car. It has to be done every now and then.
For those of you who have or had a Double Trouble, what are your thoughts on how the amp sounds at low volumes? What mic/elements did you feel sounded best with the amp at lower volumes?
Please Answer This! "For those of you who have or had a Double Trouble, what are your thoughts on how the amp sounds at low volumes? What mic/elements did you feel sounded best with the amp at lower volumes?" And my specific approach/style is a precision TB swing ala Gruenling -or so I think...
A Double Trouble on 3-4 sounds great with any bullet mic, 545, RE10, EV605, Biscuit, SM57/SM58. The amp sounded great with every mic I ever tried through it at low, medium and high volumes. My favourite mics through it were an Astatic JT30 with CM element or a Shure 545SD.
Last Edited by on Oct 21, 2011 1:02 PM
What Kingley said. I've used all sorts of mics with my DT. My favorites are a Blues Blaster with a CM element or a 545. I've used a Shure 520DX or an Astatic JT30RH with it and have been happy.
In the third clip above, I was using a Shure 520DX with a Harp Tone+ pedal. I liked that combination, too.
Hg2 is louder, has more bottom end, and is clearer than a Zoo. That is unless u have a modded Zoo. Zoos sound great but are more distorted for lack of a better term. A hg2 can be played clean. ---------- Mike Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas VHT Special 6 Mods
Thanks for the replies re: low volume and Mics guys, much appreciated.
Glad you mentioned the setup you were using for the live recording Joe_L, I was wondering about the mic and wouldn't have guessed about the Harp Tone+, that whole combo sounded very good.
"I'm not a retube kind of guy. If I pay $$$ I want it ready to play!"
Duane, I'm not trying to be a smart ass but do you take your G/M's straight out of the box and use them,NO". I know you reset the gaps and tweek them cause you O/B way better than I do. Heck your the one that showed me how to do it. I'm just saying don't short change your self. Tweek the amp just like you do your harps and microphones. Tube changes are unplug one and stick another one in, you don't have to be a tech to do that. Even my HG2 has a list of the tubes you can swap out that Brian includes in the manuel. I changed one for my particular style. It's just another way to get "your sound" Mike :)
@LSB - the harp tone+ pedal is handy when using mics like the 520DX, Superlux or the JT30RH. It allows you to boost the bass and cut some of the brightness of the mic. It is also handy when using an amp that may not be considered a great harp amp.
Its a cheaper alternative to dropping big bucks on a vintage mic. I dont really need it with the DT, but I had it the night I captured that video clip. ---------- The Blues Photo Gallery
@Joe_L - The additional info is helpful since I have a used Double Trouble on the way. Fortunately I do have a range of mics, including some nice vintage Shure bullets (CM and Crystal), a couple of 545's, and a Front and Center with a ceramic element. Sounds like I'll be good to go with just the amp and mics, since none of them are particularly bright.
Pretty stoked about getting the amp after hearing your clips and reading all the positive responses on the Double Trouble.
