harpdude61
1114 posts
Oct 16, 2011
2:52 PM
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Here is a part of a note the new guitarist sent me about a bigger amp for harp.... Will I need to modify it? What should I look for and ask about? Good deal...I do need a bigger amp now than my Double Trouble.
Rememeber I am a tech dummie here......
Duane, I think you'll love the bassman I have, it's in a 2/10 combo box with a Jensen speaker and a Vox Speaker. The mis-matched speakers just seem to work and it looks great also, it's blonde tolex with oxblood grill, 40 watts of tube heaven!!!! I really wasn't looking at selling it but it sounded so good with Dean I offered it to him for $600.00, if it works for you and you want it I'll do the same deal. They are on ebay for $750.00 and up just for the head.
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bharper
84 posts
Oct 16, 2011
3:09 PM
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Is this a silverface Bassman head from the late 60s - 70s? I'm not aware of a vintage Bassman head that produces 40 watts...
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timeistight
162 posts
Oct 16, 2011
3:27 PM
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The Bassman amp was a separate head and speaker box set from 1961 (blond tolex and maroon grill) and the bassman was always a 40-watt amp.
These have never been as popular as the tweed combo Bassman amps (they're a bit cleaner) but they're still really cool pre-CBS Fenders. I'd snap it up at that price. If you don't like it, you shouldn't have any trouble selling it to a guitar player.
Last Edited by on Oct 17, 2011 9:23 AM
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Joe_L
1538 posts
Oct 16, 2011
3:31 PM
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It might be a good deal. The parts might be worth $600, if they a good quality. Play it. If you dig it buy it, but it might not be louder than you Double Trouble with 2x10.
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The Blues Photo Gallery
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Joe_L
1539 posts
Oct 16, 2011
3:46 PM
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Which original Bassman came in a 2x10 combo cabinet? From what he wrote, it may not be an amp with any historic value.
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The Blues Photo Gallery
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harpdude61
1115 posts
Oct 16, 2011
3:47 PM
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hmmm..my Double Trouble is only 18 watts I think....
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orphan
99 posts
Oct 16, 2011
3:47 PM
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I think Joe L is right. If you like your Double Trouble but want a bigger amp, maybe HarpNinja's HG50 would be an option. For $900.00 it is plug and play all set for harp. The HG50 4x10 I got from ToddG is a lot louder than my '68 Bassman. Its also got that HG sound that is just soooo nice. I can get the Bassman to sound pretty clean, the HG...well it just sounds soooo nice!
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harpdude61
1116 posts
Oct 16, 2011
3:48 PM
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WHat should i ask about? or look for on the amp?
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timeistight
164 posts
Oct 16, 2011
4:15 PM
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"Which original Bassman came in a 2x10 combo cabinet? From what he wrote, it may not be an amp with any historic value."
You're right about that: the blonde tolex / oxblood grill Bassman came with a single 12" speaker in a large ported box.
Maybe this speaker is a retrofit or maybe it came from a different amp. I think the Tremolux had a twin ten box at some point.
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Joe_L
1540 posts
Oct 16, 2011
4:41 PM
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It doesn't matter that the Double Trouble is only 18 watts and that the Bassman combo is 40 watts.
You shouldn't ask anything. You should bring your Double Trouble and compare the two amps for volume, tone and feedback resistance. You may find that the Double Trouble cuts better than the modified Bass an combo, but you'll never know unless you do a comparison.
A few years ago, I did a comparison between my DT and a HG30 and found the DT was louder and cut better. It didn't have the bottom end of the HG30, but it was much more useful in the real world.
One more thing to consider, if you need a bigger amp consider going to a 4x10 combo. There is a reason why you don't see harp players using very many 2x10 combos. 4x10 tends to be louder.
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The Blues Photo Gallery
Last Edited by on Oct 16, 2011 4:46 PM
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bharper
85 posts
Oct 16, 2011
6:01 PM
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timeistight -- According to the Fender Field Guide, the blond Bassman head was 50 watts. So were the blackface and silverface Bassman heads. As I said, I am unaware of any vintage Bassman head that is 40 watts.
http://www.thevintagesound.com/ffg/
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rbeetsme
434 posts
Oct 16, 2011
7:54 PM
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For clarification, I think what he has is an early Bassman Head, not a combo. The 2-10 speakers would be housed in a separate cab. If it is a blonde tolex head and cab in excellent condition for 600.00 it is a good deal and will only appreciate in value. You might have to re-tube it to work well for harp, 50 watts is likely too hot and will sound harsh. But you might not like the tone. If you can try it out first, by all means do! I have heard a few of the Double Troubles and they are not very loud, this Bassman might be the amp of your dreams, but it also require some fiddling to find the sound you want.
Last Edited by on Oct 16, 2011 7:55 PM
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LSC
99 posts
Oct 16, 2011
9:12 PM
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Okay, IMHO this would not be the best bang for buck as a harp amp. Yes you will have an amp that in theory will be louder but tone is questionable. Yes, you could mess around with speaker and tube swaps but that will just up the price and take a lot of hassle. Trying to make a purse out of a sow's ear. There's not much info on harp specific swaps for this model.
The point about 2x10s for harp is well made.
It's desirability as a collectors piece, and so it's resell value, is questionable. Not many guitar players are looking a blond Bassman.
I would say go for a RI 59 Bassman. They are the most popular bigger amp for harp out there for a reason. The early versions can be had for $600-$650, especially if you're not bothered too much about cosmetics. They're not lacquered so the tweed gets pretty dirty. The later LTD version is better, tube rectifier, solid wood cab as opposed to laminate, lacquered tweed, etc. but are a bit more money. $750-$850 on average. They are pretty good stock but a fairly cheap swap of a lower gain preamp tube for harp is recommended. Next step would be NOS tubes throughout but that can be dealt with in stages as can a speaker upgrade if you ever choose. They are really easy to resell as both harp players and guitar players love them.
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LSC
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5F6H
909 posts
Oct 17, 2011
2:42 AM
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+1 on what LSC says.
The actual wattage is to some degree a moot point, wattage is a thorny issue (whatever the voltages were rated at in the 50's & 60's wall voltages have gone up by 15% since then so all specs are out), even when discussing guitar - mostly guys assume 20-25W per 6L6 and scale up, 10-12.5W per 6V6 etc., but this is like judging the power of a car on the size of its fuel tank. Wattage tests consist of disconnecting the speaker (big contributor to the actual volume of your amp) setting the controls to a standard (usually everything halfway up...but no one plays like this, deviating from this can actually vastly reduce the power your amp can make) and feeding in a small signal until the amp starts to distort (some Fenders are rated at 4millivolts at the input, 20millivolts is quite common for the BF amps, largest rated signal is 100mV - compared to a harp mic that makes whole volts and the bigger the signal you smash a tube with, the less you get out of it). As Joe L says, take nothing for granted & A/B test amps.
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www.myspace.com/markburness
Last Edited by on Oct 17, 2011 2:57 AM
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harpdude61
1117 posts
Oct 17, 2011
6:30 AM
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MAN! I am soooo glad I have you guys to lean on. I really do appreciate.
I'll try his amp but I'm going to have a chat with the banker at my house.
The Double Trouble has been really great for me. I want to go with a new HG50...Maybe Santa will come early at my house!
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Joe_L
1541 posts
Oct 17, 2011
8:17 AM
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If a HG50 is what you want, save the dough. Your contingency plan is the Double Trouble with the line out feature until you've got your funds together.
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chromaticblues
1035 posts
Oct 17, 2011
8:18 AM
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@HarpDude I tried a few of these amps years ago and did not like them at all. Just because it says Bassman on it doesn't mean its a good harp amp.
Fender changed the driver circuit and just overall were tring to make cleaner amps during the silverfaced era. Check to see what model number the head is. That makes a big $$ difference.
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Greg Heumann
1301 posts
Oct 17, 2011
9:21 AM
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If you want more volume than the Double Trouble - which is louder than it should be based on its specs - then you need not only more power but more speaker. A 4x10 or equiv is the next logical step up. The above-recommended HarpGear 50 is such an amp.
And IF you are considering an HG50, you should also consider a cupla others in the same league - Sonny Jr Avenger and Meteor
All great amps, made for harp players
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/Greg
Last Edited by on Oct 17, 2011 9:23 AM
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timeistight
165 posts
Oct 17, 2011
9:22 AM
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@bharper: When I said "the bassman was always a 40-watt amp" I meant in the sense that it was a 6L6 push-pull amp. I don't think there are many practical differences between 40- and 50-watt-rated amps of this configuration.
@harpdude61: I totally missed your guitarist's statement that this was a combo box. Unless he's misusing the word "combo" this has to be some kind of custom job and, as such, of no value as a vintage piece.
Last Edited by on Oct 17, 2011 9:24 AM
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HawkeyeKane
280 posts
Oct 17, 2011
9:30 AM
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Is the reissue Bassman '59 Ltd the same wattage as the originals, or does it have a regulator on it? Because my buddy Bill has a blonde one in a 4x10 combo, though I don't know if it's a vintage or RI, and he's said it's a 50-watter.
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Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by on Oct 17, 2011 9:33 AM
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5F6H
911 posts
Oct 17, 2011
9:52 AM
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@Hawkeye Kane: "Is the reissue Bassman '59 Ltd the same wattage as the originals, or does it have a regulator on it? Because my buddy Bill has a blonde one in a 4x10 combo, though I don't know if it's a vintage or RI, and he's said it's a 50-watter."
Varies, there's quite a swing in operating voltages (no "regulators"), but nominally speaking the RI Ltd should be the same as a 59/60 is today (~45W - they were a little less back in the day due to lower wall AC voltage). The older SS rectified RIs were ~50W because of the SS rectifier punching up the voltage(similarly dropping in a 5U4 can take ~10W off BUT may make the amp easier to live with for harp & sound nicer). Due to the variance in aforementioned voltages (down to manufacturing tolerances in the power transformers & tubes), some can make as much power as ANY 2x6L6 amp...but focus on the phrase "nominally" (e.g. a mean or average), notice that no-one makes a 43W or a 51W amp ;-) I wouldn't get in a funk over a claimed "5W" or 10%, owners are unlikely to test the amps as per Fender & NOBODY plays the amps as per the Fender test spec, an amps W RMS rating is really a diagnostic guide for techs, rather than a real world guarantee.
Many of the guys building 50's & 60's Fender reproductions build them for the tone rather than exploiting max power.
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www.myspace.com/markburness
Last Edited by on Oct 17, 2011 9:59 AM
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harpdude61
1119 posts
Oct 17, 2011
10:03 AM
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Thanks Greg. I am partial to the Harpgear stuff. THe Double Trouble cuts thru well with my Ultimate 57.
What is the difference between the HG50 1210 and the HG50 410. Should I take one over the other?
Last Edited by on Oct 17, 2011 10:04 AM
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5F6H
912 posts
Oct 17, 2011
11:00 AM
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4x10
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www.myspace.com/markburness
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HawkeyeKane
283 posts
Oct 17, 2011
1:18 PM
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Mark, just found out his is RI, a California model. Says he hasn't done any tube tweaks, and the rectifier is a 5AR4. Sound right or is he bluffing?
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Hawkeye Kane
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5F6H
913 posts
Oct 17, 2011
1:39 PM
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That model is rated "nominally" at 45W, maybe a shade more, maybe a shade less. He's not bluffing, he most likely has not tested it (if you buy a 350bhp car, you tell everyone you have a 350bhp car, very few folks would bother to put it on a dyno and then describe it as a 333bhp car) and is probably going by "rule of thumb" rather than attempting to mislead.
The manual talks about the amp as being a "50W" amp, however the schematic & Wattage test show 45W (at the voltages given, but real amps vary, often exceeding the schematic, e.g. more power)...but the wattage test is not a real world scenario...actual wattage can only be determined by testing that amp.
Take wattage figures with a pinch of salt, an amp's loudness is measured in dB, not Watts in any case (like a car's top speed is measured in MPH/KPH not BHP).
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www.myspace.com/markburness
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