So that you know where I’m coming from, I am probably an intermediate player based on Adam’s scale. I have read most posts on here over the past couple of years. The amount of harp information that has been posted is incredible and I have learned a lot from all of it.....but it can be confusing for beginners...which harp, mic, amp, pedals, what is best on stage blah blah blah.
From this wealth of information I have purchased a nice tube amp, a vintage mic etc (I am purposely not going to talk gear specifics). I have been using this gear and like it. Last week on our local web buy and sell I saw a small solid state amp. I wanted something cheap to leave in my garage so I wouldn’t have to lug my good amp around or worry about it being damaged. I bought the SS amp for $20.
Now here’s my point....the cheap amp impressed me....no it doesn’t have the power or sound of my good amp but at practice levels it is fine and maybe even better. You could probably mic it and play on stage in a pinch. What I am saying is that if you are a beginner...just buy something to use and learn, you can get started pretty cheap.
Other thoughts...last night I was fortunate enough to play on stage for a few songs at our local pub (which I do only occasionally). The band is mostly a rock dance band but plays a bit of everything from Johnny Cash to Lady Gaga. I played through the vocal mic and PA. To 99.9% of the people there it would not have mattered what gear I was using...the crowd didn’t care...the band was rockin’, the dance floor was full and people were singing and letting loose on a Saturday night. My point is....sometimes it’s just Rock and Roll (or Blues)...and when that happens the rest doesn’t matter.
"Now here’s my point....the cheap amp impressed me....no it doesn’t have the power or sound of my good amp but at practice levels it is fine and maybe even better."
For practice "enough" power to hear what you are doing is all you need but I don't understand why you wouldn't want a practice sound that's as good as your live sound...usually when you take away the need for volume (dB) practice amps often sound better & are more flexible tonally than stage amps.
No, the audience rarely care whether you sound competant or sublime...because they simply expect you to just get up & play without hitting to many bum notes. They might only see you once every so many months & that's if they're a "loyal fan", so they have a pretty vague idea of a datum of what you sound like. Sure they have fun & that's the important thing for a gig, but for you as the player, it's not much of a standard to aspire to.
A good practice amp is one that doesn't completely mask your sound through distortion and sounds so good that you can't stop playing it...arbitrary factors like cost are largely irrelevant (you can't buy what you can't afford no matter what it sounds like). At least, that's my experience.
I have only had the SS amp for a week so haven't formed a solid opinion on it yet...but as I said "it is fine and maybe even better" than my "good" amp at low volume. I was just hoping to let some folks know that they can get there foot in the door of playing amped without spending a bundle or having to know anyting about the care and feeding of vintage tube amps.
As for my aspirations...I practice and play old school slow blues as a hobby which may eventually, if I get good enough, turn into something more. However in my small neck of the woods there are no blues venues and probably not a large enough audience that would appreciate it anyway. So for now it is as I described, an occaional fun night out as novelty (there are no local harp players) guest harp player at the local dance club.
Small (cathode biased) tube amps, of the type used for practice, typically need no more "care & feeding" than similarly sized SS amps.
Sure the important thing is to play play, play...notch up as many hours with the instrument in your mouth...anything that inspires you to do that will be of benefit. But not all novices are cash strapped kids...rather than buy a bunch of stuff that you sell on for a loss as you develop is what a lot of us have done whilst learning, it makes just as much long term sense to buy good gear to start with if you can afford it.
Not disagreeing with your observations per se...but a lot of us have been down this route already...let a lot of sub standard gear go over the years, like water under the bridge, if an amp like a VHT special 6, or HG2 had been around when I was starting out I'd probably still have them and they would only have cost a few dollars per year over that period.
Last Edited by on Sep 11, 2011 9:33 AM
Glenn's point is well taken-he bought the SS amp for $20.00-he got a good deal,and is happy-leave it at that. I own a SS Fender Bronco I bought brand new for $120.00 -I used it for gigs,and recorded two CD's with it-on the 2nd cd ,the studio owner would have let me use a SFSR he had there-the moster tube amp could not capture the sound i was after. Keep playing Glenn-and enjoy your $20.00 SS amp!!
@5F6H. Hey Mark, your link to your MySpace page in your profile is wrong. No-one will be able to hear your playing and see your 1/2 watt practice amp schematic unless you fix it. ----------
The acid test of whether a particular amp or mic is a good choice is HOW IT SOUNDS--does it give you the type of sound you are after? If it does, it's a good choice, even if no other harp player in the world is using similar gear.
And for sitting in, as a purely practical matter, a player can often get a better sound through the PA than will be possible trying to set up and dial in an amp on stage under sometimes hurried conditions.
Last Edited by on Sep 11, 2011 10:11 AM
TMT714 sure, if you want cheap, then you can't go wrong for $20.00, but the fact that gmcleod15 says it doesn't sound as good as his other amp suggests room for improvement.
Although it is true that a lot of mistakes are made in buying crap gear for all sorts of reasons that seem like a good idea at the time ultimately here's the thing, IMHO, if an amp sounds good to you, serves the purpose for which you bought it, and YOU are happy with it, it's a good amp. Doesn't matter what it cost, what name is on it, or what anyone else may think of it's cool factor.
And sometimes it's part of the learning process in discovering what YOU actually like and works for YOU. And what doesn't work for that matter.
I started out playing harp through the PA with whatever vocal mic was there. Then I got a Shure 545, mostly because it had an on/off switch and was cheap. Then I was given a Shure 520D as a Xmas present. Didn't sound as good as the 545 through a PA, which was usually a H&H 100watt head with a couple of 1x12 cabs. So I scored a Vox AC30 which was in a homemade cab, all of 50 UK pounds. Traded that for a beast of a MusicMan 130 2x12 until I was loaned a '66 Fender Vibrolux-Reverb and really started to hear things right. I bought one just like it but then it got stolen and I had to replace it with a RI '63 Vibroverb. I should point out my amps had to do dual service as a rhythm guitar amp. I used the Vibroverb, along with an original 520 CM, for 10 years touring all over Europe.
When I moved back to the States I bought A '68 Vibrolux but didn't like as much as the RI Vibroverb, so I swapped over. But then I started looking for a dedicated harp amp. Besides all the Super Reverbs, Twins, Kendricks, Victoria, Meteors, and whathaveyou, that I used at jams or were supplied, I bought no end of tube PA heads, Knight, Bogen, Newcomb, and then got a Masco with original cabs that was fantastic but totally impractical. I also owned various Champs. Eventually I discovered the Kalamazoo Model 1. I now own two, one mint original and one recovered and with a Weber speaker. For a small amp, for me, they are just the ticket. I sold the CM when I got a black label CR. That is the mic for me. I've got two and an Ultimate 545 I also have a Sonny Jr. Super Cruncher and can not imagine a better harp amp. I am now no longer in the market for a harp amp of any description. But it took using all those mics and amps to find out what was out there and what worked for me. It's like the old adage about having to kiss a lot of frogs to find a prince.
And BTW, I've never lost money on an amp. Actually made a profit on most of them.
Finally, if YOU enjoy when and where you play and if YOU are content with whatever skill level you are at and/or are content with your progress, with no great aspirations beyond that, rock on and more power to you brother. You'll have a lifetime of enjoyment which surely is the point of the damn exercise.
---------- LSC
Last Edited by on Sep 11, 2011 10:40 AM
I'm poor. I got a little Park amp at a garage sale. I play it more than I would an expensive amp because, well, I can't afford an expensive amp to begin with. :)
OT: Why is it every time someone mentions Lady Gaga I get a sudden craving for bacon?
I had a Park that needed repairs-the tech told me it was actually manufactured by Marshall-and when it was repaired,it had all the traits of a Marshall amp.
I agree with gmacleod on this issue. Sometimes a cheap ss amp will be fine, and the punters won't know the difference. Of course you'll be better off with top gear, but especially for beginners, its not crucial. My experience was trying lots of different mics and amps, and not being happy with any of them. What was lacking was my technique. I can now go back to just about any of them and get good tone. Advice for beginners; don't get too hung up on gear. ---------- Lucky Lester
So I gave the SS amp a good test at a two day getaway jam session. Amp is Ok and was good value for my purpose. I like the analog modeling and the sound at lowish volumes.
I liked it best when paired with my tube amp. With both amps running I was getting a nice full...almost stereo sound. I used a splitter like Adam shows in one of his videos. Only problem was when both amps are connected I get a power hum in my tube amp. I tried pluggin the amps into different power circuits and changing instrument cables but still humming. Any suggestions on how to get rid of the hum? ---------- MBH member since 2009-03-24
You have "ground loop" hum because both amps have a path to ground via their 3 prong AC cords.
You need to lose one path to ground by using a 1:1 isolation transformer between one amp & the wall, or break the link between the 2 amps by using an in-line "ground lift adaptor" & correctly wired cables (cheaper , more practical option) to link the 2 amp's inputs.
I tried a adapter that removes the ground from one amp and it removed probably 95% of the hum. So now I have one grounded amp and one not. Is this a hazard?
You say to use a "ground lift adaptor & correctly wired cables to link the 2 amp's inputs"
What do you mean by correctly wired cables?
I like the idea of using two amps together but don't want to risk my health or fry an amp. ---------- MBH member since 2009-03-24
@gmacleod15 "I tried a adapter that removes the ground from one amp and it removed probably 95% of the hum. So now I have one grounded amp and one not. Is this a hazard?"
If you have just lifted the ground from one amp, not both, then they are both still grounded - the first by its AC cord, the second via the interconnect cable linking the amp's inputs. AS LONG AS YOU USE BOTH TOGETHER YOU ARE OK. DON'T USE THE AMP WITH THE GROUND LIFT ADAPTOR ON IT'S OWN. Note that this is very different to what I suggested that you do, I would not recommend that you lift the AC cord grounds on the amps, as at some point you are bound to forget/lose track & get a zap, that's why I specifically suggested a 1:1 isolation transformer.
The easiest to find audio ground lift adaptors are made for XLR mic connnectors, so if you go this route you will need to make a 1/4" to XLR cable to go from the 1st amp to adaptor, then a XLR to 1/4" cable to go from adaptor to 2nd amp, making sure that you designate the same XLR pin as the hot pin on both cables.
I wouldn't give you information that would cause you to risk your health, break the law in your country, or fry your amp - you appear to have managed that all by yourself! ;-). Amps were made without grounded AC cords for decades. Often, a difference in potential builds up between the AC ground at the wall and the amp chassis & when you touch something that connects to ground (grounded PA mic/water pipe etc.)..."ZAP"! This shock is extremely unlikely to cause you serious injury, nevertheless it is best avoided.
I wish more people would watch these ground loop videos...oh my, how many times have you seen those guitar players with all this crap hooked up and can't figure out why something is buzzing...lol Most of it's easy to fix for a very low amount of money. Thanks for those vids. I'm going to put the links up on my site in the future as soon as I figure out where I can put them.
Ive heard some not so good players live and on various youtube sites, imho it goes like this, if you really know how to play in just 2nd pos, not hog the bt but have the right licks at the right time then all the fancy amps, mics, and whatever it is your looking for dont matter too much, if you play crappy, the gear just enhances all the crappy playing, so to me it means don't kid yourself, the player not the equipment is what makes it sound great. ..BTW, i play crappy, that why i'm looking for information etc to get better.
