Stevelegh
279 posts
Sep 06, 2011
10:33 AM
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Hey everyone,
I'm inspired by Christelle and learning Sir Duke. We play it in my band that I play guitar in and I'm going to get them to record it as an instrumental starring me for my first vid.
Only trouble is, I'm getting terrible throat and jaw ache. I'm using a MBD in E that I've gapped but my go to woodshedding harp is a Joe Spiers in C.
Does anyone else find stock harps hard work, or is it just me and / or lousy technique? Any advice would be appreciated.
Regards
Steve
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eharp
1448 posts
Sep 06, 2011
10:56 AM
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if a hobby is giving you terrible throat and jaw aches, you are either doing something very wrong or should find a more relaxing hobby.
i was told a long time ago that to play harp, you should be very relaxed.
filisko would come up behind players and rub their shoulders to verify they are playing relaxed and/or remind them of this fact.
i think we will probably all agree that stock harps are largely inferior but they shouldnt be that difficult to play. it could be your driving a bmw back and forth to work but when you take the little lady out for a night on the town your driving an old ford ranger. i think you got your harps in the wrong order. practice w/ stock harps and then when you play the customized it'll be like butter!!
or it might be you have done a poor job in gapping?
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Greyowlphotoart
784 posts
Sep 06, 2011
11:07 AM
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Hi Steve,
I must say that I find it more of a strain to play the higher keys from D up, in particular the 3 draw bends that I find so comfortable on harps from C down. I sense that the bend action is slightly different on the higher keys and this seems to bring in to play slightly different muscles or the same muscles stressed in a different way.
It feels as if the glands in my neck are being worked and I find it more tiring.
It may be worth trying to become aware of any unecessary tension in lips thoat, neck etc., and try to relax as much as possible. This is not necessarily easy when you're learning a piece and this is where your mind is focusing primarily.
Do you get the same problem when you play a piece that you know very well?
Of course a stock harp can be more difficult to play but as you have gapped it then it shouldn't be the cause of the problem.
I'd like to hear Todd Parrott's take on this because he is a masterful player, especially on the higher harps.
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The Iceman
92 posts
Sep 06, 2011
2:00 PM
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If your muscles are getting tired, you are engaging way more musculature than is needed to play the harmonica and all the techniques needed to bend, vibrato, etc.
Improper technique over the years causes one to bundle a lot of unneeded muscles with the minimum correct technique without even realizing what is going on.
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The Iceman
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arzajac
636 posts
Sep 06, 2011
2:07 PM
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I gave myself a jaw problem that lasted for about six weeks. I bought a Big River in F and it was horribly gapped OOTB. I tried working it out without opening it up for about two weeks. I was jamming (slamming) my jaw forward to try to get draw bends to sound.
I put the harp away and the problem slowly went away.
I had a dentist appointment a few weeks after that and asked him if he had ever heard of that happening. I know that dentists have a great deal of oral medicine background and felt he would be the one to ask. No dice - I got a chuckle and the customary "play us something next time you visit..."
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BronzeWailer
259 posts
Sep 06, 2011
2:27 PM
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Timely thread! I have jaw ache at the moment, on the right side only. I have been slowly transitioning to more tongue blocking. Maybe that is part of the problem. I also sometimes slide my jaw from side to side rather than move the harp. I tense up when I concentrate so maybe I should just practice a bit of yoga.
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jbone
638 posts
Sep 07, 2011
4:11 PM
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my woodshed harps ARE my gig harps. they are varied and of different ages, brands, models, and quality. my jaw rarely gets tired.
i think some of you guys get so focused on doing things "right" that you forget to do things just "all right" and have a good time. those folks on stage and in the audience? they don't care if you pull off that double fandango whirlygig bend just so. if they like what you do and it doesn't kill you, keep doing it.
here's a tale:
my wife has been playing guitar HARD for 5 years. her axe of choice for a lot of that time has been a big epiphone jazz box, really great tone and all, but a big guitar. early this year she discovered an injury in her neck which took 10 weeks of therapy and NO GUITAR to get past. not long after, a shoulder and arm problem, once she'd begun to practice a couple of hours A DAY. so now we're back getting her therapy and she's about over the deltoid injury or what have you. BUT she is changing to a smally guitar and also planning to go more electric, like with a tele along with the 2 smaller acoustics she has and plays.
i said all that to say this: adapt to your axe or change the axe. don't kill yourself practicing, just get out and do the thing when you can once you get the basics. use the best tool you have and the job will be fun and not so hard.
just one guy's 2 cents who's been playing these things for 2/3 of my life now.
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nacoran
4568 posts
Sep 07, 2011
6:25 PM
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I haven't had any problems with pain from the harp, except some raw lips. I've had a lot of problems with tendinitis and some problems with arthritis, as well as good old fashioned muscle aches. The thing I've learned is not all pains are created equal. If it's tendinitis type issue you have to pretty much shut things down right away. With arthritis on the other hand if you stop moving things lock up. It may hurt to keep going but within reason that's actually what you are supposed to do. Sore muscles? Well, that depends on whether it's tired or strained.
I know I have a bad habit of clenching my hands on my harp too hard. It aggravates the tendons in my wrist and puts little indentations on my hands where the corner of the harp hits. When I notice I'm doing it I try to relax. It's not helping my harp playing to be trying to crush my harp. I've learned the hard way to know the difference between different kinds of aches and pains, but if it you're not sure which kind it is- damaging or muscle building, have your doctor check you out. I destroyed my elbow, shoulder and feet before that sunk in.
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MagicPauley57
100 posts
Sep 07, 2011
6:42 PM
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just thought i'd add my 2 cents worth here
i'll use another analogy , Ive been practising karate for about 15-20 years on and off , and it has parallels to music practice , the most important thing is to warm up properly , and then while practising any technique is to do it relaxed , any muscle when it's tense isn't going to move freely and effectively , , drop you shoulders down , breath smoothly and evenly and give yourself time to think ahead to what may happen . you will find you can be fast or slow without too much effort , playing guitar , harp or whatever if your fighting against it ,or it's fighting with you then you need to adjust your technique , not change the instrument , unless it's so badly set up that it's totally un- usable .
injuries only happen when your body tells you you are doing something wrong and your using your muscles in the wrong way .
we have had so many many students who have pulled leg muscles , shoulders , hamstrings etc , This usually happens when they are trying too hard , to either kick too high or punch too hard without knowing or how to unlock what their body can do ,
i was always taught to let it flow ! if your going to hit your target , look at it , and make sure your technique is correct or you can damage yourself more than the target your trying to damage
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Aussiesucker
901 posts
Sep 07, 2011
11:08 PM
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I have no jaw problems but I do get cramps in my left hand after holding the harp and mic for only ca 15 mins. My forefinger and thumb seize up.
Also I strain and run short of breath in playing the higher notes at speed in keys above C. On the other hand I am more relaxed and much prefer, keys below C down to Low D.
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Stevelegh
281 posts
Sep 07, 2011
11:54 PM
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Thanks you everyone for your comments and advice.
The problem has sorted itself, partly due to advice here, but other factors have contributed. Here's what I think helped:
1:Woodshedding on a Spiers is like doing to school run in a Ferrari. That's fine if all you have are Ferraris, but if you've then got to drive a station wagon, then you're going to struggle.
2: Playing an non custom MBD in E like a Spiers in C. Not every girl likes it the same way. Metaphorically, I was Shouting Annie's name when I should have been shouting Mary's. Mary was bound to put up a fight.
3: Lack of woodshedding. Sir Duke is a reading, as opposed to a loose based reference riff, followed by jamming. You've got to hit the notes and there's some serious 3 hole bends that you've got to be dead on the money with. I think nearly all harp players are guilty of this lack of discipline.
4: Muscle memory. I've not seriously approached a song like this before and physically my muscles told me as much.
5: Too much tension. Now I'm getting to grips with the tune, I'm not thinking too hard about it and cramping my muscles up.
Again, thank you all. I've got the tune, pain free. I just need to bring it up to speed and add in a solo at the end, a'la Christelle's superb version and I'll be ready to go. Stay tuned.
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