Greyowlphotoart
786 posts
Sep 07, 2011
11:45 AM
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Here is the complete list. (83 members took part)
I have shown the default embouchure as 1. and when a player uses another embouchure (even just for octaves) I have labelled that 2.
i.e. In the case of Ant 138, he plays mainly TB (so that is shown as 1) and a litle LP which is shown as 2.
Kudzurunner plays TB and LP equally so that is shown as
TB 1 and LP 1
Shoulders plays TB only so he is just shown as TB 1
EDIT oops forgot to add me. LP = 1 TB = 2
Edit again, Forgot to thank Isaac for the percentages!
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Last Edited by on Sep 07, 2011 1:42 PM
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Aussiesucker
903 posts
Sep 08, 2011
2:20 AM
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Amen!
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captainbliss
563 posts
Sep 08, 2011
2:29 AM
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@Greyowlphotoart:
captainbliss = LP 2 TB 1 UB n/a
xxx
PS isn't UB a subset of TB?
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Greyowlphotoart
788 posts
Sep 08, 2011
2:47 AM
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@ captainbliss.
noted.
I guess it is, as the tongue lays on the harp. It must be pretty difficult as only 6 guys in the survey use it.
I read somewhere that a UB has to ditch that embouchure to do bends which slows up the riff. Is this true? Presumably you would also have to flatten the tongue on the harp TB style for splits and octaves.
I understand it is very good for fast phrases.
Can a UB list the pros and cons of UB and clear up any innaccuracies above and why you chose that style of playing.
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Rick Shanks
97 posts
Sep 08, 2011
3:15 AM
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Over the last few days I've become aware that while LP is the 'way I hold my mouth' and I dont use my tongue on the mouthpiece...so am not ever a TBlocker. I actually play with it curled into a groove a lot and often articulate phrases punctuated in a staccato style using the tip of my tongue to the roof of my mouth. Am mentioning this as it strikes me that the mouth cavity is enlarged and more 'yawny' when this curled tongue thing is happening, even while lip pursing. Meaning that the larger tone often described as being made more possible by TB is at least in some part approached using the tongue this way (UB)....
Hope this makes sense ! I know what I mean :)
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KiwiRick
http://www.richardshanksart.com
Last Edited by on Sep 08, 2011 3:17 AM
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MrVerylongusername
1919 posts
Sep 08, 2011
4:48 AM
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With U block I can skip around the harp very quickly and accurately. Playing single note runs is, as you note, very easy.
What you've read about bending is complete nonsense and more than likely written by someone who doesn't use the embouchure. I've heard of people advising players against the technique simply because they personally can't do it. So there appears to be some prejudice against the technique simply based on ignorance and misconceptions.
Even the name is wrong - I'm not blocking anything. I'm channeling 100% of the airflow into a specific hole. I do not curl the tongue to block the side holes, in fact I hardly curl the tongue at all.
There is also a belief that since tongue curling is genetic, that some people just cannot use the technique. Well, first I'd say, contrary to what misinformed biology teachers might tell you, tongue curling is not as simple as being controlled by a simple dominant/recessive gene. This misconception was discredited as long ago as the 1950s, but persists today. Besides, as I keep saying, I don't roll my tongue into a tube, I make a small v at the tip of my tongue - as the lower lip in a lip-block does. The rest of the tongue is virtually flat.
Bending and overbending are not in any way hampered, at least not the way I do it. In fact I think they are probably enhanced as I have total control of not only the hole the air goes into, but also the angle of entry and by lifting my middle, fleshy part of my tongue to the roof of my mouth, I can control the pressure too.
Octaves and splits require a TB approach as I noted in my first post in this thread, but because the tongue is already in play on the harp, switching from UB to TB is much more intuitive. As I also noted in my post above, switching to LB is pointless as there is nothing I need LB for (OBs and ODs can be U-blocked just like any other bend)
As Rick notes, because you're using your tongue, the jaw is dropped and therefore I believe tone is improved. It is also possible to create a slap style sound.
Another thing I like about this embouchure is playing chords where one tone is emphasised more than the other two by channelling greater airflow to that hole.
I'm struggling to think of any disadvantages. I guess because the sensitive tip of the tongue is sliding up and down the harp constantly, it makes the choice of harp very important - another reason why I prefer recessed plastic combs over sandwich style harps, but that's just about comfort, not about playing. I guess becuse the tongue is in use that vocal articulations aren't possible (but wouldn't be with TB either) - they're not a big part of my playing though, in fact I don't really do them at all. I can do them(and I'd use a LB), but don't. Hope that makes sense
BTW you need to correct my entry on the chart. I do TB octaves and splits (although that's it) - so it should be:
As for why I U-block; I taught myself long before the internet existed and when there was only Tony Glover's book really out there. I remember going into the music shop to sneak a read, but I didn't actually get a copy until I'd been playing for a couple of years - by then I'd settled on a technique. Over the years, as I've developed as a player, I tried the other embouchures to see what I was missing, I haven't found any convincing reasons to change. Playing octaves and splits was just an intuitive extension of what I was already doing - I never really thought of it as tongue blocking. I learned to overblow after getting a copy of Jazz Harp in the late 80s - I'll have to dig it out, but I don't recall Richard Hunter advocating a particular embouchure for it, so I just worked it out from what I was already doing. I never really started using OBs in my playing because I used Lee Oskars. Because they squeal a little, I thought I was doing something wrong. when I finally was brave enough to try Hohners again I discovered that my technique was fine, it was the harp.
Last Edited by on Sep 08, 2011 5:42 AM
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clyde
142 posts
Sep 08, 2011
6:44 AM
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i U block and don't use the tip of my tongue at all. the end of the tongue lays under my harp about 1/4 inch and the mid section curls up. this let's me tongue block with very little movement of the tongue (using the side of the tongue). not for splits or octaves though, i need the tip of the tongue for that.
that's just the way my mouth went around the harp when i was a kid and i never knew any better (guess who never looked at the paper work that comes with the harps.
bends are not a problem this way and i can't overblow no matter what i use.
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OzarkRich
459 posts
Sep 08, 2011
7:30 AM
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I know I'm too late here (been on a harmonibatical, spent the summer doing family stuff):
LP, TB only octaves.
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Greyowlphotoart
789 posts
Sep 08, 2011
8:20 AM
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Welcome back OzarkRich. Embouchure noted, thanks. Another LP.
Very interesting UB's. Seems there's more than one way to crack an egg, or curl a tongue. That's the great thing with this instrument - so many different ways of playing, even with the same embouchure.
I mean you never get a violin player who says, 'Me? I play it upside down and use a pool cue for a bow'
I won't be making any additions or ammendments to the list now. My original question was to choose your default style if you play in more than one position and as many people added the other embouchures they use, I added this as additional info which took time and I can't vouch for it being totally accurate (as has been demonstrated)
Chances are that those who just chose their default style only will want to come back and add their additional embouchures.
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Last Edited by on Sep 08, 2011 9:59 AM
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belfast_harper
274 posts
Sep 08, 2011
9:55 AM
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I missed the census, but I am surprised that on a blues forum 70% of the players use lip pursing as their default embouchure.
The majority of instructional material available for beginners favours lip pursing with no mention of tongue blocking,that must contribute to the popularity of lip pursing.
(For the record, I am a tongue blocker)
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12gagedan
125 posts
Sep 08, 2011
8:43 PM
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Mostly TB. I LP for first position high-end stuff. The few OB's I use are about 70/30 LP/TB and improving. I also switch back and forth a lot, but default to TB.
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jodanchudan
416 posts
Sep 08, 2011
10:55 PM
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TB, but sometimes LP on the 10 blow and 1 hole depending on the context.
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Mojokane
441 posts
Sep 09, 2011
3:17 AM
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LP 80% tb 30%
I give 110%
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