jim
942 posts
Jul 25, 2011
1:42 AM
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I feel I must offer this.
This is what Chris Michalek used to do. Sadly, he passed, and there's no one to learn from like this anymore.
The deal is: you come to me for a month. I teach you customising and playing. I would call this apprenticeship, that's the most appropriate name for such service.
Price is $1000/month. You get your money back if you don't learn anything. You can spread the knowledge you acquire from me.
I offer knowledge, training, tools to buy, and even customers later on as you learn.
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Big Daddy Ray
20 posts
Jul 25, 2011
6:38 AM
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Did you really mean to put that 3rd 0?
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jim
944 posts
Jul 25, 2011
6:40 AM
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Absolutely.
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Big Daddy Ray
21 posts
Jul 25, 2011
6:52 AM
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What kind of economy do you think we are living in here?That's almost the average monthly house rental/mortgage payment to a lot of people. You think they're going to pay that for harp lessons and lessons on how to tinker with their harps?
They really do grow better stuff there than we have here evidently.
Last Edited by on Jul 25, 2011 6:53 AM
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jim
945 posts
Jul 25, 2011
6:57 AM
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Let's count. 30 days. Say, 3 hours a day. 30X3=90hours. 1000$/90hours=11.1$/hour.
And YOU are stating that I am worth 10 times less, or ONE dollar per hour... Very kind of you.
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Big Daddy Ray
22 posts
Jul 25, 2011
7:01 AM
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It has nothing to do with your worth. It has everything to do with affordability.
Nobody is going to pay half or more of their pay check to learn to play or tinker with their harps.
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Seven.Oh.Three.
120 posts
Jul 25, 2011
7:13 AM
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This "idea" from Jim was started when someone else in another thread stated they were taking customization sessions from another customizer for the same price.
BDR- you're right the economy is crap. It has also made for very trying times for mostt people (myself included). What Jim is trying to do here is a fantastic idea. While not his own. A fantastic idea. During times like these it takes thinking out side of the box to make ends meet or to make things a little more comfortable. That's the great thing about skilled labor.
But you can't run down Jims plan just because you can't afford it (I can't either). There are people out there that spend way more than a grand a month on their hobbies. Even during these times. The economy hasn't hit them as hard. Frankly, in a business environment those are you're prime customers.
I can understaffed you're point but Jims offer wasn't specifically tailored to you.
7.o.3.
Last Edited by on Jul 25, 2011 7:17 AM
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HarpNinja
1528 posts
Jul 25, 2011
7:30 AM
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If you think $1,000 to do a month long apprenticeship is expensive, you might be the one out of touch!
You said it yourself, $1,000 could be a MONTHLY mortagage payment. Well, you are not only living somewhere for a month, but learning a skill at the highest level in the world.
On top of that, you can exploit that knowledge for future economic gains.
$1,000 is 2/3 if a boutique harmonica amp. It is the cost of 30 Marine Band harmonicas - which isn't all that off from how many harps most serious players will own. It is the price of a nice set of effects/pedal board. It is the price of a low grade set of mains for a PA...it is the cost of a college class around here (one 3 credit class).
Think about supply and demand. Why would he offer a service like this to everyone? It would have killed his career and a lot of harmonicas.
If you honestly think his knowledge would have been worth $100 for a month of live-in 24/7 lessons, than you don't have enough of a clue of the subject matter to have formulated an opinion to begin with.
Sorry to sound so harsh, but your posts were made with extremely limited insight and understanding.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
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KingoBad
806 posts
Jul 25, 2011
9:36 AM
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Seriously, why the outrage at the price? Do you walk into a convenience store and start screaming that the beer costs too much? If it is worth it to you, you will pay it - if not, you won't.
BigDaddyRay, there are plenty of nobodies for whom $1000 is NOT half of their paycheck. I think you have projected yourself into Jim's offer a little too much.
Good luck to you Jim.
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Danny
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Zadozica
123 posts
Jul 25, 2011
11:32 AM
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Jim is teaching you a skill from which you could make some money - the $1,000 is more accurately called an investment - in yourself.
Jim, do you have to go to Bulgaria?
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nacoran
4372 posts
Jul 25, 2011
12:13 PM
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It's actually a pretty fair price if you think of it as tuition. It's unfortunately out of my price range but that doesn't mean it will be out of everyone's, particularly people who want to go into customizing.
Of course, it might not seem so big if it could be broken down into smaller chunks, maybe week long mini-courses for beginners, intermediates and advanced players.
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Nate
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jim
946 posts
Jul 25, 2011
12:21 PM
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This "idea" has been coined maybe a thousand years ago. This is how people were taught a profession those days.
This is also something that Buddha (Chris Michalek) used to offer. Same price, but he had a non disclosure agreement. My terms are lighter.
I live in Varna, Bulgaria.
@HarpNinja: thanks for support. You have posted all what I was thinking of.
I also thought of something... When you travel, you usually spend quite a lot on your vacation. If someone comes to me as an apprentice during summer, that could be a vacation plus education.
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jonlaing
291 posts
Jul 25, 2011
12:28 PM
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Yeah, $1k seems pretty reasonable to me. Actually when you break it down, $11/hr seems a little cheap IMHO. It's not like he's selling you a chair or some other material good that has no other utility. He's selling skills. Not only are they skills that will help you, but they're skills that you can monetize on later.
If after you complete this course, you start selling custom harmonica's at $150 each, you'd only need to sell 7 before you come out ahead.
When you put it that way, $1k is a great price. I don't even want to think about how many websites I have to build before I pay for my education.
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oldwailer
1670 posts
Jul 25, 2011
5:12 PM
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Buddha's "apprenticeship" was $1000 A WEEK. Room and board were included, though.
I think Jim's price is more than fair--in fact, I think it's cheap. A lifetime of blowing great harps at OOTB prices and a trade that you could make money with--for a thousand dollars? I don't care how bad the economy is--that's a great deal! Anybody that can afford it should jump at the chance before Jim raises the price!
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Always be yourself--unless you suck. . .
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shanester
394 posts
Jul 25, 2011
5:23 PM
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I agree, that's a great deal jim. I was trying to figure out how to do that with Chris Michalek right before he died...
The thought of a month devoted to harp sounds like paradise to me, especially in a place I've never been before, a scene I never knew about.
Pretty courageous offer too, how many folks here would be willing to invite a stranger to shadow you for a month?
Good luck jim!----------
Shane,
"The Possum Whisperer"
1shanester
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kudzurunner
2625 posts
Jul 25, 2011
7:22 PM
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It's a lot of money. It's also a fair deal. Lots of harp teachers charge $50-70 an hour. A thousand bucks at $50 an hour is 20 hours. Heck, if you wanted me to teach you three hours a day for seven straight days--my personal instruction, close attention, hands-on--that's your $1000 right there. ONE WEEK, not one month. I'd give you four hours a day for that. Maybe. But the truth is, I don't have that kind of time.
It's a great deal, Jim. Apprenticeships in the old day didn't create surplus wealth for the master, they were simply a whole lot of unrecompensed work for the apprentice. We live in a different time now. $250 a week for close personal attention, every day, from a master of ANYTHING strikes me as a great deal.
Last Edited by on Jul 25, 2011 7:23 PM
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didjcripey
114 posts
Jul 25, 2011
8:56 PM
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Worth it ?
Depends on the master.
Depends on the student.
Good luck to both!
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Lucky Lester
Last Edited by on Jul 25, 2011 10:42 PM
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jim
947 posts
Jul 26, 2011
12:30 AM
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Just to clarify about the accomodation - I don't have free rooms at my house right now, but I have a good apartment for rent 5 min from my place for 150€ per month. Besides, when you live together you also deal with everyday domestic stuff, and it's much better to focus just on the harmonica. It's also less stressful for both that way.
I don't think anyone would need 24/7 lessons. I don't even think anyone can physically bear that :-) A couple of hours per day, from several weeks to one month is optimal based on my experience.
I think it can be a week or two as well. And this can be done only after August. HarpSummer 2011 dates are 15 - 25 Aug.
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apskarp
517 posts
Jul 26, 2011
11:57 AM
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I think that is a really good opportunity! Actually I'm always hoping for more of these kind of ideas forming and manifesting in real life. I have wrote quite a few times about the advances if the harp community would be more open about the secrets of harp building & customization as this would benefit the players, hobbyists and the pros as well.
1000 dollars is a small investment to start a business, and one month is a short time to sacrifice for building the initial competence. And I also like the idea of open sharing of anything that is being taught - that enables innovations to form quicker in the community.
Actually I had a deal of apprenticeship with Chris Michalek about harp customization. Looking back at it now, it was ridiculously good deal for me: I paid 300 dollars for a set of tools + lessons to use those tools. There was no limits of how many lessons that deal included - Chris just promised to teach me everything he knew about harp customization. No secrets. The only thing was that he asked me not to share with anybody the techniques he used to build harps, as it was his living. He actually said that he wished he could share those things publicly, but business-wise he saw it was important to keep those secret at the time being.
Anyway, that deal included set of tools, (some of which I unfortunately never received as they were just being prototyped), skype lessons whenever I saw necessary + email/chat support anytime. I don't know why he offered me so good deal - perhaps he thought it was nice to have somebody in Finland too to be able to do this customization stuff.. :)
I did buy two Buddha harps from him later just to be able to have a reference to compare my own work towards. It took almost a year to actually get those, but eventually I got them few weeks before he was gone.
Anyway, I'm really glad to see this kind of development! I wish you good luck Jim!
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