My problem with “modes”, apart from the nomenclature, has always been, what’s the point? I don’t think there’s any point in practising them as scales, because you’ve already practised them in a different form. The point of scales is to help you achieve dexterity. Say you pick up a C harp to play along with Kind of Blue in G and you’re playing G Dorian. It’s the same notes as F major, so if you’ve been practising scales in 12th position, you already have the dexterity. It may be that you need to practise Dorian in 2nd for mental dexterity, but that’s your problem.
How many modes are useful? How many have a point to them? One of the essential things about music is that the tonic note have (subjunctive) a chord to accompany it. E.g. the C major chord accompanies the tonic or root note C in a piece in C. It gives it solidity. So, what happens if we work our way up the scale of C looking at each “mode” in turn and whether or not there’s a useful chord to accompany and solidify the tonic or root?
For D (“Dorian”) we get D minor because the notes DFA are available to us. For E (“Phrygian”) we get E minor because the notes EGB are available to us. For F (“Lydian”) we get F major because the notes FAC are available to us. For G (“Mixolydian”) we get G major because the notes GBD are available to us.
For A we get the relative minor, A minor, and the notes ACE are available to us, but speaking classically, we only actually use these exact notes on the downwards part of a melodic minor scale, so it's best to call it "Aeolian".
For B we don’t get anything really, as only the notes BDF are available to us, and they probably don’t present a convincing enough chord to the ear for a piece to sound whole (but if you disagree, we can at least agree that this would be a special case).
So we get five potentially useful “modes”.
Now, you can hear what all of these sound like if you have a keyboard. All you do is play the chord of D minor repeatedly and/or rhythmically with feeling with your left hand and noodle on the white notes with your right hand, but learn to noodle so that you regularly return to the D to coincide with your left hand playing the chord. You will get a feeling for how this “Dorian mode” sounds (and listen to Kind of Blue, which is where modal jazz gets its name from.). Do the same with E minor, F major, G major, and also the relative minor, A minor. With all of these, literally repeat the chord whilst noodling on the white keys. This is why a keyboard is so useful to have!
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Andrew. ----------------------------------------- Those who are tardy do not get fruit cup.
Last Edited by on Jul 22, 2011 3:33 AM
I don't agree. Aeolean is the natural minor scale note for note and the notes of that scale are used for tunes in natural minor like, for example, "Little Wing" and "St. James infirmary." Very useful. This would be 4th position.
There is A LOT of material that uses the Myxolydian mode as the scale from which the melody is constructed. "Norwegian Wood" is one example and there is a ton of others. This would be second position.
Dorian mode is used for a lot of minor tunes that have a major 6th. "Cold Duck Time" is one example. "Riders on the Storm" is Dorian (with parallel Dorian chords) as is "So What." This is third position.
Phrygian mode is used on "White Rabbit" and the Norah Jones tune "When Will I See You Again." Granted, Phrygian is not all that common, since it produces a Spanish or an exotic feel. Fifth position. (BUT you can also play Aeolean/natural minor and even Dorian in 5th position with appropriate bends--very flexible position for minor key playing).
Ionian mode is the do-re-mi scale. first position.
Lydian mode is 12th position.
I agree that Lochrian mode (6th position) is not all that useful.
But the other modes are very useful shorthand for scale patterns that are used to play all sorts of popular material. As a practical matter, IMHO, the trick to handling a wide variety of material on a diatonic is to select a position that gives you the mode that fits the tune you are playing. Each of the 6 most commonly used positions corresponds to a particular mode which means that somewhere on that harp in that particular position you can play that mode note for note without having to bend. so, if a particular tune uses a particular mode for its melody, if you select the proper position, you have all the notes you need on that harp.
So, IMHO, that's the point of understanding modes. On the other hand, I agree that it may not be necessary to practice modes as such because they are "built in" to the scale you are playing depending upon what position you are in. BUT, you only get the particular mode that corresponds to a particular position without having to bend in one register of that harp when you are in that position. Some bending is required to play that mode in other registers, so you still will need to remember which notes to bend to stay in that mode as you play in the other registers of the particular harp you are using. So, if you are using a position that corresponds to a particular mode, you will not NECESSARILY be playing in that mode, but you easily can if you want to.
Last Edited by on Jul 22, 2011 5:50 AM
For what I do 100% necessary. I also have to communicate with other musicians that are at high levels of proficiency and that' how we communicate but a knowledge of harmony is necessary to.
Strange as it may seem I've been in bands where I was the only reader. I can recall reading off the notes from a Bob Marley book that had all the bass lines and different Reggae Rhythms to the Rhythm section and reading bass clef and giving the notes to the bass player. They were great players but this was just to speed up the learning process of the large amount of tunes we had learn in a short amount of time for well paying gigs for the whole summer. ---------- Emile "Diggs" D'Amico a Legend In His Own Mind How you doin'
In music other than jazz, locrian is not very commonly used. It is a very commonly used mode in jazz. I tell my students to learn ionian, dorian, mixolydian and aeolian and leave the other three until you want to play jazz. By the way, these are just the modes of the major scale. There are as many modes as there are notes in all the scales in the world. I have a friend who is genius with the harmonic minor modes.
Personally I play very little jazz but I enjoy messing with it and doing around 2 jazz gigs a year. I do not in the least consider myself a professional level jazz player.
I prefer not to think about modes as just the major scale starting on another root, therefore why practice them? I instead think of them as their own scale, creating a flavor entirely different from the major scale.
When I was deep in scaleville, where I spent around 2 to 8 hours a day for around 5 years, I practiced all modes in all 12 keys on both a diatonic and a chromatic harp, as well as around 7 other scales that I still find incredibly useful on a weekly performing basis. I rarely play outside of 1st, 2nd and third position, but I can play each mode in each position and if another position really suits the song better, I have it when I want it.
I really do not practice scales much anymore except to guide students through them, but I am very glad I spent so much time learning them. I also think my time in arpeggioland was well worth the trouble.
When I was first figuring out out women, a friend asked me if I had ever played the game of pool. I love pool, I told him. Ever lose to a better player? He asked me. Yes. That guy has lost more pool games than all the pool games you have ever played. What he was trying to tell me was that women were a numbers game and that instead of asking my guy friends what women were about, I should be hitting on another women and another, etc. Sooner or later I would spend enough time with women to understand enough about how they are that I would succeed with them.
My point is, lots of people discuss scales. But there are people who have played the dorian scale more times than you have ever put a harmonica in your mouth. Want to learn the value of scales? Play them a lot!
We have a Blues harp forum consisting of blues harp players who don't know any music theory. And we have two types of teacher.
Type a wonders how to teach basic theory to beginners. Type b insists that they be told every jazz modality known to man, and they have to memorise the modality of every piece of popular music ever written before they know the difference between major and minor or what a C is.
It's like imagine a group of schoolkids in a 6th grade physics lesson and there are two groups of teachers: -
group a) thinks they should learn the basics of Newtonian mechanics
group b) thinks they should learn the tensor calculus of general relativity before they go home that night.
Perhaps you'll understand what I'm saying if you look at two user profiles:
User: Diggsblues Name: Emile D'Amico Email: oatss_oatflakes@yahoo.com Website: www.youtube.com/diggsblues Skype: oatflakes2949 Diatonic and Chromatic player Gives lessons over Skype
User: hvyj COMMON PENTATONIC SCALE BREATH PATTERNS FOR MULTIPLE POSITION PLAYING
MAJOR PENTATONIC: Root 2d 3d 5th 6th octave
MINOR PENTATONIC: Root b3d 4th 5th b7th octave
I. (SECOND AND FIFTH positions)
Second Position MAJOR PENTATONIC SCALE through 2 registers (key of G on a C harp):
D2/B3 D3** D3 4D 5B 6B 6D 7D 8D 8B 9B
Fifth Position MINOR PENTATONIC SCALE through 2 registers (key of E minor on a C harp):
B2 D2/B3 D3** D3 4D 5B 6B 6D 7D 8D 8B
You can extend either scale in either direction using the same breath pattern: D1 B9 and D10 are scale tones in each scale. This works because G major is the relative major of E minor.
II. (FIRST AND FOURTH positions)
First Position MAJOR PENTATONIC SCALE through 3 registers (key of C on a C harp):
Fourth Position MINOR PENTATONIC SCALE through 2 registers (key of A minor on a C harp):
3D** 4B 4D 5B 6B 6D 7B 8D 8B 9B 10D
You can extend the A minor pentatonic scale in either direction by playing the complete pattern for the C major pentatonic scale. This works because A minor is the relative minor of C major.
III. (THIRD AND TWELFTH positions)
Third Position MINOR PENTATONIC SCALE through 3 registers (key of D minor on a C harp):
Twelfth Position MAJOR PENTATONIC SCALE through 2 registers (key of F on a C harp):
2D** 2D/3B 3D** 4B 4D 5D 6B 6D 7B 8D 9D
You can extend either scale down to 1B and you can extend the F major pentatonic scale up using the same breath pattern as the D minor pentatonic scale. This works because F major is the relative major of D minor.
I now quit all discussion of music theory. ----------
Andrew. ----------------------------------------- Those who are tardy do not get fruit cup.
Whoah, sheesh (thumping my head). Going back to my previous post, I know what y'all are talking about...kinda. To REALLY know what y'all are talking about and to use it, I'd have to look at a harp note layout (I know I shouldn't have to.) and my scale interval chart with all the *W*W*H*W*W*W*H*s and stuff. To me, this seems like an encyclopedia-full of data that would be impossible to ever memorize.
So, what's the secret? Have y'all spent years memorizing it? Did you pick it up little by little as you needed it? Is there a simple pattern I haven't recognized? ...What??...
I used a C harp for jamming to the tune in G minor (sorry it took me so long for the reply, I checked out last night right around the time you posted the question)
Andrew, I hope to fall in category of door number three.
Although I am focusing on theory in my Youtube lessons, I am doing so to fill a gap in the Youtube instruction world. I hope you agree that the theory I am teaching is very basic for beginners.
With my regular students, it is the same. I teach theory that will help figure out how to play in the pop music world. By pop, I mean anything but jazz and classical, for example, blues, country, rock, folk, punk, reggae.
My theory is aimed at using your ear to discern the key and then whether or not a song is major, minor and blues and to give a few viable scales that can help navigate each of those three styles.
But what the Youtube student does not get from me that private students get, is the physical nature of playing harmonica techniques, how to play in time with a beat, how to improvise and how to create and use your own philosophies of what music means to you.
On this forum however, if someone asks an advanced theory question and I have an answer, I will give it while hopefully giving enough of the basic theory that would lead a beginner to understand the more advanced concept.
It can all start with major scales and then intervals Actually if you learn one major scale you can do the intervals and apply them to the rest. It's a lot of bricks that build your house one by one. ---------- Emile "Diggs" D'Amico a Legend In His Own Mind How you doin'
@Andrew: Yeah, I've heard the term "overzealous neophyte" but I don't understand what that has to do with the topic at hand.
Personally, I've been playing diatonic harp for 30+ years. I'm self taught and have no formal music training. The stuff in my user profile is something I figured out on my own. That stuff and what I've had to say about modes are things that I find have enormous practical utility in the real world live performance enviorment. Without an understanding of that stuff I would not be able to function competently at the paying gigs I play most weeks.
Iam NOT a teacher and do not pretend to be. I am a harmonica player with live performance experience.The stuff I post about is practical stuff that I use and rely upon when I perform live gigs with other musicians
So, what does the term "overzealous neophyte" have to do with it?
Last Edited by on Jul 22, 2011 12:12 PM
DreadySlim's post neatly brought me on to what I was going to say before I read it: music is about sound; how those sounds are described or termed as conventions is something that came about, for the most part, after folks had been using those sounds in a certain way for a while and everyone more or less agreed that they should have rules to keep them that way. That is basically what classical four-part harmony is all about: don't use consecutive 5ths or 8ves; don't double the 5th here or the 3rd there; and a whole host of other tedious rules, which I have an awful time remembering. When you get into jazz or other types of modern music a lot of those rules go out the window and you have to learn another set of rules.
But all of that goes way beyond what is necessary for most of us who just want to play well and get up at a jam.
I've never been to a jam where I was required to know anything more than the key of the song, whether it was a 12-bar or an 8-bar, or some other American song form.
On the occasions when I've been lumped in at the deep end with something completely unfamiliar, apart from thinking 'oh shit' I've just had to use my ears and be careful about what I play.
In a situation like that, all of you, me and anyone who's not just landed from Veetvogel 6 will know which notes fit and which notes don't fit. We know this because we have been exposed to those 'conventions' since childhood.
For example, do any of you remember the English comedian Les Dawson? If so, you may remember that part of his act was to play piano with a load of wrong notes all over the place, which was bloody funny. The act worked because everyone in the audience knew how the music should sound, even if they didn't know the first thing about written music.
Or, for another example, take a simple tune like 'When the Saints Go Marching In. Play it through, but instead of ending it with 4 draw followed by 4 blow, end it with 4 draw 4 draw bend. You don't have to know that the correct version forms what is known as a 'perfect cadence' or V-I cadence in order to spot the bum note.
If you were doing that at a jam, your ear would tell you that you're being a wally, and you'd quickly 'resolve' - to use the technical term - the 4 draw bend to the right note, which would make the wrong note a funky little chromatic passing note.
Have I convinced anyone yet? Not that it matters.
One other thing. I get a bit baffled as to why some folks on here are confused as much as they seem to be about some of the very basic things, Honkin On Bobo's post about minor keys being a case in point.
Over the years, I've owned a few harmonica tutorial books, and I don't think I've had one that doesn't describe these very basic things. I know that David McElvy's 'Instant Harmonica' goes into detail about 3rd position, and even has a gorgeous little version of 'Wayfaring Stranger' to help teach it. That simple little book 'How to Play the Pocket Harmonica by Blah and Blah - I forget who - explains all the basics with minimal fuss, and even delves as far as 5th position, I think.
Is it that some folks just don't want to read any books? I'm not being funny, but that's how it seems. If so, that's none of my business. I just can't figure out why else it is that some of these very basic things come up.
EDIT: How rude of me. I wrote all that without clicking on page 2. Div. The only thing I would now add is this: we seem to be having two discussions: one about basic theory and another about an - dare I say it - almost fanatical understanding of the ecclesiastical modes and how they relate to jazz. My contribution is not meant to have any bearing on the latter. ---------- YouTube SlimHarpMick
Last Edited by on Jul 22, 2011 9:26 AM
With modes and the circle of 5ths, one can unlock many of the popular sounds used in our favorite songs. Once you see the big picture, you'll be amazed how simple it all really is > like many of life's mysteries.
@gene: Just learn one piece at a time, as you need it. There are patterns, but they probably won't help until you discover them yourself.
All this stuff works better when you apply it to music as you learn it than if you just try to memorize a bunch of disconnected facts.
For example: learn to play "Scarboro Fair" and "Amazing Grace". Once you've figured them out try to find them in other keys. Now you're playing major and minor pentatonics. These scales are so universal as to seem built-in to the human brain:
You can spend years exploring the uses of those two scales, and they're expandable: there's one note difference between the minor pentatonic and the minor blues scale. Same with the major pentatonic and the major blues scale. So you can often substitute one for the other in either direction.
Same with the church modes that seem to be giving everyone such fits: instead of worrying about whether something is Dorian or Aeolian or even Phrygian, you can just sub in the minor pentatonic until your ears suss out what other notes work. The major pentatonic can sub for Ionian or Lydian (or Mixolydian, if you're careful) until you can hear what other notes to use.
@Diggs: I think I've kinda sorta picked up a practical working knowledge of theory over the years. But, HARMONY is a whole different kettle of fish, or tofu and rice, or whatever.
@gene: "To me, this seems like an encyclopedia-full of data that would be impossible to ever memorize." If you are referring to the tab in my user profile, three breath patterns should not be particularly difficult to learn/memorize. if you can play these 3 breath patterns and remember which one to use for which scale in which position, the only other thing you need to remember is what note is root in which position. This would enable you to play in 6 positions well enough to improvise if you've got a good enough ear, and is much simpler and easier than learning each of these 6 positions one by one. These patterns remain the same for ANY Richter tuned harp in all 12 keys. The rest of the mumbo jumbo is not important to commit to memory in order to play--it's just there to provide context.
The only reason I put this stuff in my user profile is because a couple of other members asked me to after I had laid it out in a post a while ago. Apparently, some members like to refer to it and wanted it to be easier to find.
Last Edited by on Jul 22, 2011 1:14 PM
I'm not referring to the tabs. I'm referring to the idea of learning how to apply "the flattened this, the flattened that works with Aeolian and Lydian (er wutever) but not Delorian except on Tuesdays and you can use Phrygian instead of Suburu"...As well as memorizing which note is the 5th of this scale and that scale in each of the 12 keys.
Y'all seem to handle this stuff as well as I handle feeding the dog, And as stated earlier, it makes me feel like a counting horse in a room full of mathameticians. Your statement, "The rest of the mumbo jumbo is not important to commit to memory in order to play" and Timeinstein's statement, "Just learn one piece at a time, as you need it" do give me a little feeling of relief.
Tim, I disagree with "There are patterns, but they probably won't help until you discover them yourself." Michael pointed out patterns (his 3 rules, "Every time you go up a fifth...") that I may never have noticed. (As well as the CO5 also being a Co4 when read counterclockwise.) Those are helpful rules to know.
Very entertaining and thought-provoking video, btw! I'd like to see that whole discussion.
Last Edited by on Jul 22, 2011 1:37 PM
I only took music theory 101. We covered the circle of fifths and modes and sight reading, along with basic chord structures, inversions etc.
There is a lot of stuff to remember, but it all builds on what went before, so it's self reinforcing. The single most important thing I learned though was the layout of a piano. If you learn the names of the notes on a piano. If you learn where C and learn that if you are naming a black note based on the note to it's left you can it a sharp and if you name it based on the note to the right it's a flat. If you can get that far, and learn to count steps, all the rest of the stuff starts to make sense. It gets you to understand how notes relate to each other.
It's like knowing numbers. If you know how to count and what plus and minus signs are people can ask you 3+7=X and you can solve for X. A piano keyboard is like a musical calculator or abacus. If you know how to press the buttons you can use it to spit out the answer. It's okay if you can only hunt and peck, but it shows you all the formulas to get the answers.
Gene: Personally, i am not obsessed with the Circle Of Fifths and I hardly ever refer to it. IMHO, there's lots easier and simpler ways to keep track of positions than futzing around with the Circle of Fifths.
BUT the PATTERNS are a different thing. They do simplify things. You see, if you select the right pattern, you don't have to deal with or be concerned about "the flattened this, the flattened that works with Aeolian and Lydian (er wutever) but not Delorian except on Tuesdays and you can use Phrygian instead of Suburu". If you are using the right pattern, all of that stuff is built in and you don't have to keep track of it.
Now you do have to kinda sorta know which notes are where in order to play the patterns since you have to know which note to start on. But musicians who play other instruments do this all the time as a matter of course when they play in different keys. Playing in different positions is just playing the harp in different keys. Don't make it harder than it has to be.
If I put this whole thread in a jar and shake it real good, I think what pours out is this:
"If playing by ear is how you get there, fine. You just need to know 'theory' in order to communicate what you're doing.---And---If learning theory helps you blow the right stuff out of your harp, fine."
Right?
(But you never, ever want to play Suburu while your buddy's playing Delorian.)
Last Edited by on Jul 22, 2011 2:14 PM
To take the fear factor out of 'LEARNING THEORY', why not approach it from a different angle:
ie, you are already ingrained with a knowledge of theory based on a lifetime of hearing music played correctly - movie soundtracks, elevators, malls, records/tapes/8tracks/cassettes/CD's/mp3's, radio, tv soundtracks.... Consider theory as a tool to label what you already know. You've already got the knowledge inside...Theory shows you how to access it. I've had a lot of students relax and enjoy this stuff when they change their orientation to it. ---------- The Iceman
I'm sorry my neophyte-ism offended your advanced musical sensibilities. How dare I ask a question about minor/major keys on a forum concerned with music.
Just out of curiosity, do you own or have you read a basic harp tutor? As I tried to indicate, some of the questions on here are so basic that I honestly don't understand why they get asked. Seriously.
I know that this is a music forum. That is why I assume that most of those contributing to it have at least made some effort on their own part to understand the most fundamental rudiments of the subject. It's not a crime if they don't, it just baffles me.
So, it's not so much that my sensibilities are offended, music should never be about causing offence. It's more a case of utter bewilderment about how people who profess an interest in a subject can, of their own volition, try so little to find out about the most basic building blocks of that subject.
If you want a thorough grounding in most of the stuff you need to know, the book by David McElvy, which I mentioned above, is a bloody good starting point.
Angry, pissing-contest reply expected. That seems to be the way of the web. Oh well, hey hoh! I don't care. I'll still post what I think and try to be polite or I just won't bother posting. If you don't like what I have to say, perhaps it's best to ignore me and any advice or opinions I may have.
I don't think Mick has a problem with anyone asking questions, it's just that those who choose to answer the questions should consider the needs of the learner. That's the skill of a true teacher. Bombarding people just creates confusion and demotivates.
MrV, Perhaps you're right. I'm very good at teaching 1-2-1. You have to be if you want to get paid. Patience is my No. 1 rule.
Having said that, I think that the content of my previous post, a couple above this one, encapsulates what throws me about some of the stuff that gets thrown up on here. ---------- YouTube SlimHarpMick
Learning music theory to me is an ongoing process. For me it has been best learned as I felt a need for it. I do like the circle of fifths as a way to choose the harp I want.
The long narratives on theory have not been useful to me in my approach, though I acknowledge that others may benefit from that approach. If there is a song I want to play, I try it in different positions, find where I like how it lays in one or two positions, and practice it.
When improvising, I think the note I want, and play it, but don't name it. Sometimes the pedagogy of theory makes my mind numb.
I have often thought of this part of the movie below, and the line, "I'm better when I move..."
@Honkin On Bobo: You said that you played the G minor tune on a C harp which is second position. For me, that would be difficult to do, since I would need to bend the 3 draw precisely a half step with consistent accuracy every single time I played that note even in passing which I think is very hard to do (and like to think I have pretty decent bending skills). I would also need to avoid 7 draw, which is a major third.
Here's where I think other positions really make things easier since if you were to use say, an F harp in third position to play in G minor you have the minor third available at draw 5 and draw 9 WITHOUT HAVING TO BEND, which makes playing in a minor key very much easier. OR if you were to use an Eb harp in fifth position to play G minor you have minor third available at draw 2, blow 3, blow 7 and blow 9 without having to bend.
Honestly, neither fifth position or third position is particularly difficult to play. IMHO, fifth position is the easiest since it's very much like playing in second position. I think it's much more difficult for me to play minor in second position. FWIW.
Last Edited by on Jul 22, 2011 8:36 PM
Well, it's good for people to explain right where they are in the process. If you are trying to explain something and you are basing your explanation on what you assume is shared knowledge you won't be able to connect if it's not actually shared knowledge.
First, octaves. If you listen to music you'll notice some notes sound the same, even although one is a higher pitch. If you play a guitar, each time you cut the length of the string in half (with your finger on a fret, don't go actually cutting string!) you play a note one octave higher. So, if you play an open string, then play with your finger right half way in the middle of a string those two notes are an octave apart. If you make the string even shorter, 1/4 the normal length you will be another octave higher. Theoretically each time you make the string half as long you will make the note an octave higher, right up until you get so small that you can't really separate the notes because of the size of your fingers (or actually, you'll run into problems because of the hole in the guitar, at least on an acoustic.)
Okay, for a simple concept explanation of major and minor scales, without bogging down in details, think of it this way...
A scale is just a really simple song. The easiest way to play it is to start on the bottom note and keep playing until you get to the top note, but really you can play them in any order.
Now, there is whats called the chromatic scale. It has 12 notes in an octave. Some of them have two names, but that's not important now. (For the record they are Ab-A-Bb-B-C-Db(C#)-D-Eb-E-F-F#(Gb)-G). Except for experimental stuff most people play using a smaller scale that only has 7 out of the 12 notes. When people are talking about keys or modes or scales (except when they are talking about chromatic scales) they are talking about which 7 notes they are playing.
All the notes repeat in each octave. Keys, modes and scales still use the 7 notes with the same name in each octave. Major scales usually sound 'happy'. Minor scales usually sound 'sad'. The ' ' are because it's not always the case. Happy lyrics and a fast tempo can make a minor song sound happier and vice versa, but generally speaking major means happy and minor means sad. It's useful to know if you want to pick how you want your song to sound. It's like saying, huh, I want my song to sound a little like St. James Infirmary, so I'll use the same sad notes.
Each note in a chromatic scale is 1/2 step apart from the next note. In other scales though, since they are only using 7 out of the 12 notes, they go up by 1/2 steps and whole steps. A major scale uses the pattern you get if you start in one place and use a certain pattern of 1/2 and whole steps. A minor scale uses a different pattern. Think of it like you have to play a bunch of different songs, but you can only play notes from this one famous song. That's all a scale is at it's most basic level, the song you are allowed to use notes from. Each note has it's own major scale. All that means is the 'song' starts on that note and plays it's pattern of 7 notes up and then ends on the same note, only one octave higher. Minor scales are just 'songs' that use a different 7 notes. Modes are just different scales that use different seven notes. The reason I'm always telling people to look at a piano is it's really good for figuring all this stuff out. The pattern of black and white keys is like a cheat sheet for the different patterns that make up modes.
If you want to know why all this works, watch Donald Duck in Mathmagic land. There are 3 parts. They are all on YouTube and only one of them covers music and I'm not sure which one it is though. They are actually pretty cute and can improve your pool game too.
Why are scales important? Partially because everyone uses them so our ears get used to hearing them. Ever listen to Indian (Asian, not American) and notice how weird it sounds? They use a different chromatic scale with more notes. We just aren't used to it. There is also a pentatonic scale that uses only five notes. The other part of it has got to do with physics... (but don't worry, this part won't be on the test! It's just extra credit :) )
Now, a diatonic harmonica was designed as a short cut. If you don't bend notes it only has the 7 notes from one scale in it, so you can't accidentally play the wrong notes, as long as you have the right key, if you are just playing in one key. It has a range that covers 3 octaves, although to save space and to make it easier to play chords it only has all the notes in the middle octave. The top and bottom octave are missing notes. Bends, overblows and all that stuff help you get other notes so you can play other scales on them and give you those notes that are missing in the top and bottom octave.
The physics! The simple version of the physics(all I can wrap my brain around since my math skills are pretty rusty) is that when two waves line up peak to peak they make a wave twice as big as the first wave. When two waves line up peak to trough they cancel each other out (that's how those cool noise cancellation headphones work, by feeding you sound waves that are exact opposites of the noise around you.) When waves don't line up perfectly one way or another they create other patterns. Some of those patterns are organized and sound 'good'. Some aren't and sound 'bad'. That's an over simplification, but it's the basic idea.
One last note... each major key has something called a relative minor. What that means is it has a minor key that uses the same notes as it. To get a different pattern you start on a different note.
You know what we need? We need some enterprising singer to write scale songs for each mode!
If someone wrote something like that for each mode and then maybe made a video with a piano keyboard where the notes lit up as you used them... maybe if it was flash based you could even have it shift pitch and different keys would light up. It could show each mode in every key. I wish I could program. Maybe a cheap set of learner harps, solo tuned, for each mode would help people train their ear for it. Just a crazy thought. :)
You don't need a special set of harps to hear the church modes* -- any old richter will do.
For example, on a C harp:
4 blow to 7 blow is C Ionian 4 draw to 8 draw is D Dorian 5 blow to 8 blow is E Phrygian 5 draw to 9 draw is F Lydian 6 blow to 9 blow is G Mixolydian 6 draw to 10 draw is A Aeolian 3 draw to 7 draw is B Locrian
*If you want to. You don't *have* to learn the modes; lots of great musicians never do. I just happen to think they're sort of interesting, particularly how they intersect with positions.
Last Edited by on Jul 23, 2011 1:59 PM
@nancoran: "You know what we need? We need some enterprising singer to write scale songs for each mode!"
No, we don't because they've already been written. I've listed a few of them in the post above where I was disagreeing with Andrew about whether learning modes has any utility.
Timeistight, thanks. I knew they were all there in theory but I hadn't looked for them beyond the minors. I knew you could do it on the white keys on a piano. I'd never taken the time to figure it out on the harps. I was thinking first position harps to try to make it as simple to hear and play as possible and to give you access the chords.
Each major also has a parallel minor LOL Just when you thought it was save to go back into theory LOLLLLLLLLLLL ---------- Emile "Diggs" D'Amico a Legend In His Own Mind How you doin'
Last Edited by on Jul 23, 2011 3:13 PM
hvjy, sorry, I missed it. My scroll wheel is broken on my mouse and I'm leaping all over the place. :) I was thinking more like the doe a deer sort of learning songs though.
Learning theory can be compared to driving a car and asking for directions to where you are going. Some people just refuse to ask for directions.
You can probably get there without directions, but it's faster and easier with. ---------- The WV State Harmonica Championship at The Diamond Teeth Mary Blues Festival Aug 27th & 28th 2011, Huntington,WV
It depends on where you are driving to... If you are new to the area and your destination is 5 miles down a straight highway, you don't need to spend a lot of time memorizing alternate routes. If you are new to the area, all the extra directions will just confuse you.
If you are just learning to drive a stick shift, you don't need to learn the gear ratios before you drive. Just how to slip the clutch, and what the shift pattern is. As you drive and become better, you may become interested in that information, and it may improve you gas mileage or acceleration.
You might lose patience if someone insisted that you learn all the various ways to get to your destination before driving, and that you learn all the mechanical specs of the vehicle before you drive it.
Sometimes just the basics are a good starting place, and you add abstract knowledge as you become interested during your journey. In playing an instrument that does not allow you to see what you are doing, sometimes you just have to play the thing!
You can gradually fill in the details as you become aware of your need to learn the technique or theory.
So for the OP: Theory is necessary to the extent that your musical journey requires it, in order for you to go as far as you want with the instrument. This destination will likely change the farther you go.
I figure I will keep learning all my life, and will expand my knowledge of theory as I wish, or as needed.
At this point in your journey, is theory necessary? ----------
