|
Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
What tuning do you use?
What tuning do you use?
Page:
1
littleeasy
48 posts
Jul 16, 2011
8:39 AM
|
I am tuning my harps and have used the just intonation tuning on some and like the deeper fuller sound. What tuning do you guys use and why? With some info from the best source in harping (you guys) I can make a more educated decision.
thanx for any and all input
|
hvyj
1549 posts
Jul 16, 2011
9:01 AM
|
I ONLY play ET harps. I play in six positions and if I use compromise tuned harps, I will sound grossly out of tune in at least 3 positions.
But, even in 1st 2d and 3rd positions, I can't stand the flat notes on a compromise tuned harp because I don't sound in tune with the rest of the band.
I know some players like the sweeter sounding chords that compromise and just tunings produce, but i think that it's more important to be in tune with the rest of the band. I don't play a lot of chords anyway, and, frankly, I don't find that the chords I do play sound all that bad in ET. In the final analysis, I think it's more important to be in tune with the rest of the band.
You know, I played compromise tuned Hohners for years. Then a few years ago i switched to Suzuki Hammonds which are ET. I play no other instruments besides harmonica, and i found that after playing ET in performance settings for about a month my ear began to improve noticeably. i think this is because I was starting to hear notes that were flat on the Hohners at correct concert pitch when i played them on my Suzukis. So I became better able to recognize what these notes are SUPPOSED to sound like and my ear and overall musicality improved considerably. These days, I use custom harps tuned to A442 pure ET.
|
harpdude61
896 posts
Jul 16, 2011
9:28 AM
|
100% agree with hvyj...I play GMs and I do throw a lot of splits , double stops, and chords for backing. Never sounds wrong to me or anyone else.
|
barbequebob
1690 posts
Jul 16, 2011
9:31 AM
|
For tradtional blues, folk, or old timey stuff, I prefer 7LJI and then 19LJI, but for otherr genres, it's wide open and there are some situations whereET makees more sense but a comrimise tuning tends to be more versatile. For chording or doube stops, ET tuned chords on a diatonic sounds horrible and out og tune with itsel
----------
Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
|
jim
915 posts
Jul 16, 2011
9:52 AM
|
ET. And sometimes even 440hz ET.
----------
Free Harp Learning Center
|
Andrew
1377 posts
Jul 16, 2011
10:15 AM
|
OOTB + my ears.
Having said that, I can see sense in having the drawplate tuned sharp.
----------
Andrew.
-----------------------------------------
Those who are tardy do not get fruit cup.
|
nacoran
4320 posts
Jul 16, 2011
10:22 AM
|
I have a mix of ET and JT, mostly Lee Oskars and Special 20's. (Although not a complete set of either). It really depends on how I'm going to play the song. If I'm doing a lot of melody work I like the ET. If I'm going to play chords it depends. I think sometimes the rough chords of ET can give you a nice cranky sound but if I'm going to want the chords to sound smooth JT is the way to go.
So, for instance, my band has a song called Sammy Brown. I play real loud, pretty much the same 2 patterns the whole song. The harp sort of drives the song and reinforces the melody. I'd sort of call it 'trumpet-y'. I use a Lee Oskar for it. For our song the Devil Always Wins I use a SP20 because I need a more traditional blues harp sound, quickly switching between single notes and chords.
One possible solution, short of buying a set of both is, if your band doesn't mind playing in different keys than songs were written, to alternate. Get an Ab in ET, then a A in JT, a Bb in ET, etc. By switching back and forth you never have to move a song more than a 1/2 step if you decide you want to go a different direction with it (which is important if you want to be sure it will still fit in your singer's range) and it can change your sound a little from song to song. You could also fudge a bit. Generally I'm more likely to be doing a lot of chords on lower harps and more melody on higher, so ET might be a better choice for your high harps and JT for your lows.
Ultimately though, the best way is to try different harps. Open or closed backs effect tone, how you cup, tuning, mic, there are a bunch of things in the chain and it depends on what sound you are going for.
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
|
hvyj
1550 posts
Jul 16, 2011
10:54 AM
|
I am more concerned with being in tune with the band than being in tune with myself. As far as i am concerned a performance ain't about the harmonica, it's about the music.
In general, it seems to me that a lot of harp players' thinking tends to be harmonica centric. Harp is a very powerful sounding instrument, especially if played amplified, and can be very intrusive and annoying to listen to. I tend to worry about how the sound of my harmonica fits with the rest of the instruments and what it does to the overall sound of the material being played. This affects my choice of harps and my choice of amplification.
If a player is using good breath technique, I don't find that the chords on the ET harps I play sound all that "rough." I hear the beating as a sort of shimmer that doesn't sound at all bad if playing amplified. I don't hear any beating or dissonance with split interval double stops. Octaves will never be a problem, because octaves should be tuned the same no matter what tuning scheme is used.
Other than adjusting my attack to compensate, I don't play any differently on lower key harps than i do on higher key harps. I can hit all the same bends in any key (although certain bends are easier in certain keys) and i don't alter what I play depending on the key of the harp i am using.
The MUSIC dictates what I notes or chords I choose to play. What harp i happen to use is determined by the key of the music and the position i select to play it in. i do not change WHAT I play just because the key of the harp is high or low. I sort of don't understand why anyone would. I don't use any tenor (low) harps, though.
The pitch of a harp depresses with breath pressure even if the player is not bending. For me, and the way I play, harps tuned to A442 put me in tune at concert pitch with a band tuned to A440. Btw, being able to hit BLOW notes with even breath pressure that corresponds to the pressure used to play draw notes is important to good technique. A lot of blues players don't have as firm a tone on blow notes as they do on draw notes and this will have an effect on how even their pitch will be, depending on whether the note being played is blow or draw which is not a good thing.
Last Edited by on Jul 16, 2011 11:58 AM
|
Ray Cornett
12 posts
Jul 16, 2011
1:50 PM
|
7 limit just. I didn't even know what it meant when I first started and when I got my first GM customized by Randy Sandoval but when it was done I realized how crappy it sounded OOTB.
|
nacoran
4323 posts
Jul 16, 2011
2:08 PM
|
Hvyj, I find I do more chugging in the lower keys. I'm trying to fill in the role of the bass (although we just added a really good bass player and I'm adjusting). I don't alter what I play based on what harp I'm playing, but I do sometimes change what harp I'm playing based on what I'm going to play.
In general, I do find I use ET harps more often but I'm often playing single notes. There are just some songs though where I like the warmer chords (not that ET chords sound bad, like I said, sometimes I actually prefer that slightly more dissonant sound.)
We actually change keys on some of our songs fairly regularly just to keep things fresh or just to save some strain on the voice.
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
|
hvyj
1552 posts
Jul 16, 2011
2:16 PM
|
I'm curious. How does one "fill the roll of the bass" on a diatonic harmonica?
|
HarpNinja
1508 posts
Jul 16, 2011
6:47 PM
|
I use almost all ET harps in my rock coverband and I use all 19 limit and compromise for my solo project. I also use those harps when playing side-man in blues projects.
----------
Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
|
MrVerylongusername
1757 posts
Jul 16, 2011
7:11 PM
|
Almost all my harps are ET. I use Lee Oskars and a few Golden Melodies. I gig the Lee Oskars exclusively.
I think some of the prejudice about ET harps and chords come from players who favour the classic tight cupped mic, overdriven tube sound. That sound is rich in added harmonics and the harshness of ET (and conversely the lushness of JI) really become far more evident because of that context. If you tend to favour a cleaner sound then the chords don't grate nearly as much as some people would have you believe. Just my opinion - feel free to disagree.
|
harpwrench
498 posts
Jul 16, 2011
7:12 PM
|
Right on.
|
HarpNinja
1510 posts
Jul 16, 2011
7:30 PM
|
@MrV
I totally agree. FWIW, I play way more octaves than chords - especially to accomodate key changes, which tend to be limited on a harp really fast.
I find 7 Limit to be way out of tune for a full band sound...IMO anyways. 19 is great for 1-3rd, so what I started to do, as I collected more harps, was keep the harps I play 5, 11, and 12 on in ET and than use 19LI for the others.
I've gotten to the point, though, where I try to NOT play to much above the key of D. Therefore, I mess with those harps the most. For example, my main E has a flat 7 draw. My F is 19LI.
My main C, D, G, and A are ET. I pretty much use stock harps for Ab, Db. For F# I have a compromise LF#. All my L harps are 19LI
----------
Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
|
nacoran
4326 posts
Jul 16, 2011
11:41 PM
|
Hvyj, I just sort of chug along!
From a theory point of view I guess I'd be just playing in a lower octave than the guitar (my friend loves his capo!) and playing more rhythm than melody. Now that we have a bass player (and a really good one at that) I'm having to change a couple things here and there.
I guess I'm not strictly just talking about bass guitar but the bass part in music, whether it's what we basses got stuck with in choir or organ pedal tones from classical or the boring parts I got stuck playing on the baritone- whatever instrument is holding the low end of the music together. I'm not talking about putting distortion on it or anything to make it sound like a bass.
Less often it's playing splits where I'm playing more notes out of the right side of my mouth than the left. I don't have a lot of those, mostly just little snippets of classical music I picked up, 'Joyful, Joyful' and a little bit of Rondeau's theme that they use for Masterpiece Theater. I also do a weird percussive thing with a tongue slap on my LLF and then recorded another track using a standard C for melody. I was having problems staying on rhythm on the faster parts on that recording with the low stuff though because the harp would respond so slow.
Of course, I didn't say I was playing bass parts well, just playing them! :)
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
|
Post a Message
|
