BronxHarp
64 posts
Jul 09, 2011
8:18 PM
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In other recent threads some of you have said that if you want to have control of where things go with a band, etc. you need to sing as well as play harp.
I would love to be able to sing decently. Hearing great singing is almost as pleasurable to me as hearing great harp and hearing them combined (Junior Wells to me is the prime example) is out of this world. But I consider myself to be someone who can't naturally sing in tune. Unlike learning an instrument, which everyone, regardless of innate talent, needs to practice -- some people can just sing decently right out of the gate and some can't. That's my impression anyway.
So my question is: Can those who can barely carry a tune learn to sing and maybe even find a pretty decent voice inside of them?
I'd be interested in hearing from those of you who thought they had no hope of singing, but eventually got to a better place and made it part of your practice and performing. How did you get to that point and what other general advice do you have?
Thanks,
Jordan
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nacoran
4304 posts
Jul 09, 2011
10:35 PM
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I think as long as you have a good ear you can learn to sing. Just like an instrument there are techniques you have to learn. It takes practice and I'm not saying that everyone will have a great voice, but lots of people without great voices learn to be good singers. Learning to work the microphone is a skill unto itself. I pop my p's all the time.
I agree that singing gives you a lot more control of the direction a band goes, but it depends on the kind of control you want to have. My first garage band was a friend and me and this other guitar player to start with. We added a bass and a drummer. My friend and I split the vocals but the guy who always got the band members to show up at practice was the crazy guitar player. He couldn't sing, could barely write lyrics and was usually out of tune. We finally kicked him out of the band when we found out he was a neo-Nazi. The band stopped playing shortly after that. It turned out the crazy guy was the guy who was always calling around figuring out when we could all get together to practice and providing the practice space.
Rough Order of Power in a Band:
The Bossy One
The Singer
The Singer's Significant Other
The Person with a place to practice
The Person with a place to practice's Significant Other
The 'Hot' One that every else wants to sleep with
The 'Hot' One that attracts groupies
The One with the recording equipment
The Person who 'formed' the band
The Songwriter
The Guitar Player
The Person who knows music theory
The Insanely Talented
The Drummer
The Harp Player
The Backup Singers
The Backup Singers in a Diana Ross Group
:)
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Nate
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Baker
136 posts
Jul 10, 2011
2:31 AM
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I have found myself in a similar position. I have been playing music since I was young but was always a terrible singer. I always knew the notes I wanted to sing but didn't have the control to hit them.
A little while ago I thought I'd see if could change that. I have just been learning songs on my guitar and singing along. I have found that, like other instruments, practice has made a huge difference. I am now able to sing in tune, in a couple of keys at least. I'm not there yet and sure I would probably make faster progress with a teacher. But there is a definite improvement.
Think of it like learning another instrument. Put is some focused practice time.
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12gagedan
93 posts
Jul 10, 2011
7:25 AM
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I like nacoran's list. That's why I have a "no chicks in the band" rule.
I spent 6 years doing weekly voice lessons. Up until I began, I almost never sang a note. Some will tell you that you must be born singing, to sing. While it helps to start young in anything, one can definitely learn singing as an adult.
I once asked my teacher if anyone could learn to sing. She said that in 20+ years of teaching that she'd only encountered one person who was beyond help. She then made an analogy between peoples' hearing and rope, as if the rope is the connection between ear and brain. Some people, she said, have a big thick cable. Others have a thin thread. As long as there's something, she believed she could teach them.
Last point from me: If you decide to go with voice lessons, do so carefully. I got really lucky by contacting the music department at a local college and finding a brilliant opera singer/teacher. Anyone can claim to teach singing, so make sure you're careful.
I also believe that singing/bandleading makes a huge difference in a harp players place on the band hierarchy.
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12gagedan's YouTube Channel
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MrVerylongusername
1747 posts
Jul 10, 2011
7:51 AM
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@nacoran
You forgot "The one with the van"
@Bronxharp
Confidence is the biggest key to success.
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Sandy88
110 posts
Jul 10, 2011
8:22 AM
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anyone who is a good musician can sing in tune, so if you want to be a good harmonica player it is something you have to learn.
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WORLD CLASS HARMONICA PLAYER
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KC69
147 posts
Jul 10, 2011
9:01 AM
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Jimi Lee turned me onto a book by Roger Love. Title: Set your voice free. We discussed its usefullness at H.C.H.
Jimi still uses the warm up exercises. If nothing else, it has taught me a lot about the middle voice, and gives me more confidence. I also use the warm up exercises provide on the accompanying CD.
And I thank You K.C.
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Tommy the Hat
102 posts
Jul 10, 2011
9:20 AM
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Singing is something I think about a lot. I love singing. I love great singers. However as much as I love to sing and as much as I practice singing, I am not what I would consider a singer. I don't think I have a good voice. I can probably get away with rock but a "good" singer with real range? No way bubba. I can probably carry a tune but no one would say I was a good singer or someone you have got to hear!! lol. But I have become comfortable with the fact that my instrument isn't as good as some. Ok,then I'll just do the best I can with what I got.
So, with that in mind I look at it like the harp. I listen to singers and I sing along. I study there riffs and such. I study there styling. I think of blues music and the feelings involved and how I think they should be conveyed. (or any style of music for that matter). Then I try to fit myself in using what I hear. I figure it doesn't matter so much how well your voice is as much as what you do with it. If you don't have a great instrument maybe less is more. Do more with less. Put it in at the right time and say a lot with a little...let others feel (and see it) it rather than hear it.
With practice and study you can learn some techniques and things to help you improve and to sound better, plus how to match "your" voice to the music. I think an important point is to sing what you can. Many...me too...try to sing what they like rather than what they can. Some songs just aren't for you. What you "can" sing, will be easier to work with and better to listen to.
Again, I'm no singer, but I do love it and so I give it a lot of thought. Ok...my thoughts have no real data to back them...but... lol
My two cents!
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Tommy
Bronx Mojo
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KC69
148 posts
Jul 10, 2011
10:19 AM
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The great thing about Roger Love's Book, ( set your voice free ) is he is adding, only to your own unique voice. He show you how to smoothly operate thru 3 octaves. He explains how the vocal cords work and how to strengthen them. The book progresses thru Chest, Middle, and Head Voice. To do the work at home for a one time price, I was very happy. And some of the people around me are more happy.
And I Thank You. K.C.
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Barry C.
278 posts
Jul 10, 2011
12:05 PM
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ha love the power-in-the-band list - how true!! (i'd just add the one who books gigs)!!
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~Banned in Boston!
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2chops
10 posts
Jul 10, 2011
1:01 PM
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I've always held the notion that there are singers and then there are vocalists. The difference being that singers have a large degree of natural talent. Annointed, if you will. Vocalists range from gravely to decent in quality. Most of us fall into the vocalist category. Nothing bad about being a "vocalist". George Thorogood, Neil Young,...all fit into the vocalist realm. So what. Their voice fit the music, they threw themselves into what they did, and had a good time. I struggle with being self conscious of my voice too. But my wife is very encouraging and lets me know when I need to quit trying to "be a singer". Great gal.
Having said all that, keep working @ it and let yourself enjoy the proccess.
Ron
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KingoBad
795 posts
Jul 10, 2011
6:44 PM
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Hey Jordan,
I wanted to wait until some much more qualified folks chimed in.
Get yourself some headphones and a mic and listen to yourself sing. If you have problems hearing your pitch, record it and play it back to critique it.
You will be able to work fairly well of assessing your sound that way. Don't worry if you sound goofy to yourself, most people do in the beginning. At first you will probably be weeding out bad stuff like nasal sounds, overanunciation of consonants, etc.. Just keep at it, and sing along with everything you can. Be aware of your range and try to pick songs accordingly. Stay in a comfortable range and don't strain anything.
The next step will be listening to all the blues guys singing with your big ears on. Intonation and timing are just like the harp. It will take time to get it all down and there are MANY subtleties.
My 2 cents anyway...
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Danny
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Greg Heumann
1175 posts
Jul 10, 2011
7:30 PM
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Just do it. There are a lot of harp players with very UNCONVENTIONAL voices (Charlie Musselwhite, Rick Estrin come to mind) but they succeed because they have soul and they're great entertainers - very comfortable with the audience.
For whatever it is worth I decided to sing for the same reason - so I would have more control over what happened at the jams I was going to. I taught myself. Few years later we formed my band, Bluestate - and I have been the lead singer for the last 6 years. Who knew?
Sure you can "learn" to sing and you can learn how to sing better through formal lessons, trial and error, observing others - many ways.
You're either lucky or you're not. As much as I love Mark Ford's harp playing, his singing, I always thought, was awful. Fortunately for him his brother Robben is a wonderful singer.
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/Greg
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Joe_L
1342 posts
Jul 10, 2011
11:41 PM
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I agree with Greg. Just get out and do it.
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The Blues Photo Gallery
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5F6H
776 posts
Jul 11, 2011
9:05 AM
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Another vote for what Greg said...I too learned to sing to have better control over the kind of music I play, a few formal lessons to learn about airflow & posture, but mostly from listening & recording myself & jamming. Experiment with keys, "head" & "gut" voices...even if you don't have the voice of an angel you will most likely stumble on something "serviceable". The singing teacher I went to confirmed to me on my first lesson that there was no such medical condition as "tone deafness"...she followed that up with.."but some peple's throats & brains don't seem to be properly connected, YOU ARE one of those people, so keep your money & spend it on something more worthwhile!" :-o. I persevered... so, if I can hold a tune anyone can.
When I heard Greg's singing in Youtube clips, I assumed that he'd been doing it since birth, rather than a decade or so...I'm humbled.
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2011 9:06 AM
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BronxHarp
65 posts
Jul 11, 2011
4:16 PM
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Thanks for all the great advice, ideas, inspiration, folks. Really good stuff here that makes it clear that it takes work and determination like anything else. Dan, great analogy with the cord, thread. That really makes sense to me. Gonna get Roger Love's book (my wife would be into it, too.) Thanks again, everyone. -Jordan
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toxic_tone
234 posts
Jul 11, 2011
6:08 PM
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i dont know if others feel like this but this is my story.. i have been learning how to sing with this thing called vocal release. anyway the thing is that when i practice with people around me which i always do so i can be around my kids n wife...(so no problem come up u know) any way, i tend to sing wayyy different on stage then while i practice. when im on stage i cant believe i hit the notes right on and i remmeber all my lyrics its like when i get on stage i cant mess up. dont get me wrong i do mess up i just play it off and nobody ever knows. but its such a high when this happens. alot of ppl always come up and say wow great harp playing and u did great on the vocals.. i do live in a small town north of orlando but, there is enough people i guess or i wouldn't be giging anywhere.
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2011 6:10 PM
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KingoBad
796 posts
Jul 11, 2011
6:45 PM
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Toxic, that reminds me of something I was going to say. You are right.
When you get on stage to sing - go full blast - don't hold anything back. You are there to strut your stuff. Half of what you are doing is creating a credible presence, so don't give the audience anything less.
Go big or go home.
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Danny
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Tommy the Hat
118 posts
Jul 14, 2011
4:10 PM
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Hey, I got a used copy of Roger Loves book Set your Voice Free as mentioned in this thread, but it has no CD. Anywhere I can get one or download something free?
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Tommy
Bronx Mojo
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Stickman
675 posts
Jul 14, 2011
6:12 PM
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SHHHH! Don't tell anybody. I take singing lessons (no joke, other than my wife I have told nobody but you) after a year I have gone from "Oh GOD! Please SHUT UP!" to "Hey, your pretty good". I went In not wanting to be great but just competent, my instructor said "I'll do better than that, I'll make you good" the first month was very hard. I thought the dude was going to tell me to give it up, but I stuck it out (and so did he) I can now sing. I'm not great, but people don't tell me to "shut up" anymore. Maybe next year I'll be "good", but for now I am happy and getting better every day. My advice, take lessons.
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Last Edited by on Jul 14, 2011 6:14 PM
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barbequebob
1689 posts
Jul 15, 2011
6:57 AM
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Taking singing lessons is an excellent thing to do because one of the first things you work on is proper breathing and relaxation techniques, and BOTH of these are also VERY IMPORTANT skills to learn not only as a vocalist, but as a harp player as well and don't be surprised if your harp tone, both acoustic AND amplified improves dramatically as well, which is a big reason why I highly recommend that to ALL harp plyaers. I did, and I can attest to how much it has REALLY helped me.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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