arzajac
561 posts
Jul 07, 2011
7:11 PM
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I'll get down to the point - How much plinking do you do when you emboss? How do you emboss enough to get a good effect, but not get the reed to buzz?
The first few times I embossed, I did 2/3 of the slot with a socket or similar tool and overdid it. After some practice, I have gotten good results by using moderation. I probably stroked 5 to 10 times and plinked for about 2 to 5 minutes.
If I would emboss more, it would just buzz and there would be no amount of plinking that I could do to make it better.
Wanting more, I bought an UST from HarpNinja (Thanks Mike!) and it really works well. I figured my problem was that I was not embossing the full slot and trying to get more effect by overdoing it on only 2/3 of the slot.
Of course, I overdid it the first time with the UST - that thing really works! But I am still facing the same challenge - the fine line between enough embossing and not getting it to buzz.
I am making sure the reeds are well aligned/centered. I'm getting better and am barely touching the reed now.
I'd appreciate any advice here. Should I be plinking more? Is that the solution? I saw a Buddha YouTube video once where he described plinking and mentioned that he sometimes had to plink for hours! I also read a post from MP who said he had an hour to kill and did some "light embossing". That makes me think I am not plinking enough...
I plink until the tone changes and sounds proper. Are there other subtle changes that happen after that? What should I listen for? If it still buzzes after a few minutes of plinking I try to deburr the slot with a shim a little bit - I figure the problem is that I overdid it.
Thanks.
Andrew
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Last Edited by on Jul 07, 2011 7:16 PM
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harpwrench
489 posts
Jul 07, 2011
7:27 PM
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Probably best to do your embossing in a more controlled environment over a light box of some sort, using some magnification, so you can see when to stop at "just right". Plinking that much is inefficient.
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arzajac
562 posts
Jul 07, 2011
7:48 PM
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Thank you! That's very helpful.
I do use a light box. I will try using magnification as well as paying closer attention to what I am seeing.
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Last Edited by on Jul 07, 2011 7:49 PM
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oldwailer
1660 posts
Jul 07, 2011
8:32 PM
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If you spend a lot of time plinking, you might be getting burrs--just run a .002 feeler gauge down the offending slot. If you just do one side at a time--you'll know which side.
The feeler gauge can remove little burrs--which is a place you inadvertently changed the downward pressure or the angle of the tool or both--this creates a little place where more brass is pushed out than elsewhere.
If you don't use heavy magnification and a good back-light while doing this work, you're just working against yourself.
Also, before you plink at all--especially when doing a full-slot emboss, remember to check alignment very carefully--embossing can knock the crap out of alignment.
If you're using oil--wipe it off pretty well before plinking too--it can create a deadening of the plink.
These are all reasons why I invented the Bosser--go check it out on my site--or find the thread here where I first released it. . . ;-)
http://www.modernbluesharmonica.com/board/board_topic/5560960/1576559.htm
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Oldwailer's Web Site
Always be yourself--unless you suck. . .
-Joss Whedon
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HarpNinja
1504 posts
Jul 07, 2011
9:37 PM
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.001 feeler gauge and use mineral oil.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
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oldwailer
1661 posts
Jul 07, 2011
10:40 PM
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deleting a double post. . .
Last Edited by on Jul 07, 2011 10:41 PM
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jim
894 posts
Jul 07, 2011
11:57 PM
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use steel reeds and your question will be no more than an old joke. Steel reeds free themselves from the obstacles done while embossing.
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Free Harp Learning Center
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chromaticblues
912 posts
Jul 08, 2011
6:30 AM
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So Jim what are you trying to say?
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chromaticblues
913 posts
Jul 08, 2011
6:40 AM
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I don't think plinking has anything to do with it. All your doing is just making sure the reed has enough clearance. Sometimes the reed will rip the burr of the slot wall, but I prefer to use tools to do that.
Like Harpwrench said somepeople use a light box. I use a lamp. You need to use a light sorce and see where it needs it and see where you went to far. Without light your just guessing!
Another thing to keep in mind is the tool that you use has an effect on the shape of the slot wall. That will change its performance and its timbre characteristics. There is alot more I could say here. But I think experimentation is good for everyone. If anyone really wants to get good at it they will!
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jim
895 posts
Jul 08, 2011
11:17 PM
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I'm not trying. I'm saying. Brass is stone-age with stone-age problems.
There's more than one side of the coin.
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Free Harp Learning Center
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chromaticblues
916 posts
Jul 09, 2011
4:28 AM
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@Jim I don't share your love of stainless steel reeds on diatonic harps. Yes you are correct they will not oxidize nearly as fast which means they will stay in tune longer.
I will break down what I do know. Brass is a softer metal. Because it is a softer metal it will give a wider bellcurve of overtones. What that means is each individual note will sound fatter to the human ear. If ANYONE wants to dispute this. Do some research before you start argueing about things you know nothing about!
Now because it is softer theoretically they should have a shorter life span.
If tone (and this subjective not everyone will hear a difference) is something you don't care about and you hate it when your harps go out of tune than Jim is absolutly correct. I do believe SS reeds are the best choice for long reeds. I have never played a chromatic with SS reeds, but I'm guessing they would be better suited for chroms than diatonics.
About once every other week I open up atleast one of my harps to retune it slightly so the octaves don't pulsate. I don't consider that a stone-age problem.
I don't think people were playing octaves in the stone-ages?
That is the the other side of the coin of truth!
Thank You my children. You may go in peace!
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AirMojo
168 posts
Jul 09, 2011
5:36 AM
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Any GOOD recommendations on magnifiers ?
I use a light box, and a standard type magnifying glass for embossing (not really very good at it yet)... I've thought about getting something like this from Micro-Mark, but it says its only magnifies 1.75 times... I like how it clamps to your workbench, has a light, and I could always use more light on my workbench:
http://www.micromark.com/Fluorescent-Magnifier-5-Inch-Dia-175x-Magnification-Lens,8177.html
Then there's the "headband" variety, and seems to be lots of choices.
Just wonder what the experts prefer.
Last Edited by on Jul 09, 2011 5:37 AM
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harpwrench
490 posts
Jul 09, 2011
8:01 AM
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It doesn't need to be fancy...This is similar to what I use:
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-4-MAGNIFIER-HAND-HELD-MAGNIFYING-GLASS-5X-POWER-/290585511728?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a83f0730
I fabbed a bracket to attach it to an old JT30 mic stand, and adjusted the height of the light box with wood to get the correct focal distance.
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MP
1761 posts
Jul 09, 2011
1:15 PM
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arazajac
i didn't emboss for the entire hour. i don't think i could abuse myself that way. but if i'm working on a harp i like a large window to space out in.:0)
seems to me that if you do enough harps your speed and accuracy improves.
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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chromaticblues
920 posts
Jul 09, 2011
3:33 PM
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Ya MP that is true! The big thing is don't be in a hurry! Because if you take your time and go easy you can get the feel and not have to push sections of the slot back in. I don't push to hard because you'll get to a part and it will fold in like butter! If that happens and your always pushing parts back in then you are in to big of a hurry and pushing to hard. There are videos where people crush yhe sides in and push it back out with a screw driver. Don't do it that way. If you go to far then you have to, but try not to go to far. It makes the harp more consistant and louder if you do it "right"!
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arzajac
566 posts
Jul 09, 2011
5:41 PM
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I really appreciate all this information.
Thanks!
It's validating to know that what I am after is attainable knowing what to look for and working and practicing to get it. It's not some mysterious method that will get results but to simply look at what I am doing and pay attention to detail.
I guess I'm happy to know that it's there for me to see. For some reason I thought it was a lot about hearing and feeling rather than looking.
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MP
1763 posts
Jul 10, 2011
4:47 AM
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not so fast arzajac, you haven't gotten rid of us yet:)
at the risk of sounding like a mendicant of the new age i'll hazard proffering you this stick of incense.
it's like a meditation thing to me. i'm not all business in my approach. i'm kind of lazy actually. i don't apply much pressure at all. i sort of gently burnish with very light strokes feeling for an eveness forming beneath the socket.
but what do i know? cheers!
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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chromaticblues
923 posts
Jul 10, 2011
12:13 PM
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Oh and never emboss during a full moon. The gravitational pull is to great and will affect the tone!
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garry
67 posts
Jul 11, 2011
7:41 PM
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i don't know that i buy the "soft metal, more overtones" theory. that'd make sense if we played harps by plinking them, with the metal producing the sound. but it doesn't. the sound comes from chopping up the airstream, so the material shouldn't matter.
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