Jimmy , I say sell the stuff on CL or online .Then buy a amp and gregs Mic ,I will sell you the Sonny Jr Cruncher 1x12 2x8 or the Super Sonny 4x10 at a great price both have line outs . these amps are way better then a bassman RI
Tank, lots of guys have given advice...there's plenty for the OP to choose from, including yours. However, if he is trying to compete with 2 guitar players, who play loud through 100w Marshalls, from the back line...then it does have to be reasonably loud, won't matter how "tasty" it is if no one can hear it.
BigTankT Thanks man, I got a feeling i'm gunna have to get a small, medium and large amp. I had been thinking about the Princeton for a couple of months now and after all the comments on this thread I still think that is a viable option for me as long as I realize it would have to be mic'ed for my current situation and I would need to switch out the preamp tubes. But it also has reverb built in and I like that I wouldn't have to use any pedals. Like I said I will still get a mic from Greg. ---------- Jimmy Famous
@JimmyFamous: FWIW, I have NOT swapped out preamp tubes on my Princeton, although i have swapped out preamp tubes on my Super.
These amps come alive at volume settings starting at 6 and above. So, I go into the low gain (#2) input with a 545 Ultimate (low z w/an IMT) and I roll down the volume control ON THE MIC leaving the amp cranked, using the vc on the mic to control performance volume and avoid feedback. This method may not work well with a bullet mic, but the tone of the 545 Ultimate does not degrade at lower volume outputs and there is a symbiosis between the 545 and these particular Fender amps. Some amps work better with certain mics and vice versa. The 545 and these 2 amps match up extremely well.
hvyj, It sounds to me that the Princeton is my best bet. Which is where I was at in the beginning of this thread. You did not swap out any tubes, but you could if you wanted to, is that correct?? From what I have heard so far, no one has advised me to not get the Princton, just that it would need to be mic'ed. So I'm cool with that. In fact I could use my I5 to mic it. and play through a Blows me away mic. If anyone thinks that this doesn't make sence, let me know. ---------- Jimmy Famous
@JimmyFamous: The PRRI is a great harp amp. Yes, you certainly can swap preamp tubes EXCEPT you can't put in a phase inverter tube with an unbalanced diode because the PRRI has a "long tail" phase inverter. Other than that, yeah, you can swap 'em out.
Btw, I put a set of Fender 14" tilt back legs on mine because i like how the tone of the amp opens up when it's tilted back.
Minor quibble, the PRRI has a "cathodyne" PI which only uses one triode for phase inversion, as there is only one triode it can't be mismatched/unbalance with another. It's the 6L6, fixed bias, Fenders & the Deluxe Reverb that use the long tail PI which can be unbalanced.
JimmyFamous, if the band is loud, you may well struggle with the PRRI, even mic'd up. To hear it you will most likely need a monitor, which will create a feedback loop with the mic picking up the amp. The extension speaker jack can be converted to a line out with a couple of resistors...but ultimately, however you tube it up, it's a 15-20W amp sharing the stage with much bigger amps.
Last Edited by on Jul 06, 2011 1:37 PM
Hi Jimmy , why don't you post a video of you playing so we can see what you really need also it sounds like the band you are playing with is a rock band and no matter what amp you get you will still need to mic it or use a line out
I agree with 5F6H. I love my PRRI, but if i were going to have only ONE harp amp for gigging, it certainly would NOT be my PRRI because it's just TOO SMALL.
Mic'ing an amp (other than on really large stages) is, IMHO, more aggravation than it's worth, and very often not effective for the reasons 5F6H points out.
@5f6h I agree sir, however it can be done with out million watt amps do they mic the equipment?? Sorry but you can be tasty while playing with loud amps I have fought that very thing for years with my guitar players it is the old addage look mine goes up one more it goes to eleven! You could alway go through the pa system also that way you have control over the volume you wanna play at. Please still take the time to go look at Marc Aubles amp builds, I really think you will like what you see and get what you are looking for. This guy used to be my guitar player for a while and tweaked all my tube amps he knows his Stuff. Tank
@Jimmy not trying to sell his stuff for him Jimmy I am just familier with his work and he is working on a small tube amp now just to harp players with me in mind. Hell he will teach you how to build your own if you have the time. Juz Keep blowin thats all that counts. Tank
@BigTankT- I checked out the Marc Auble site. Your enthusiasm is admirable but there is nothing there that is harp specific. He only has one sentence which mentions the first channel of his 53 Deluxe inspired amp being useful for harp. I saw nothing that produces more that 8 watts. He has no prices showing or anything other than photos of his de-tuned cabinets. In short, though he appears to build interesting and unique amps and I'm sure they are built to a high standard, there is nothing that makes me think he would understand or have experience of a harp players perspective and requirements. I also would imagine that with the build quality he appears to offer his price would not be a lot less than say a HarpGear H2 which is a proven product.
Your endorsements not withstanding. I doubt that an Auble Amp would blow a HarpKing, Sonny Jr, Meteor, or HarpGear off the stage. It is subjective which of these may be a better amp but for sure none would blow the other off with the possible exception of a HarpKing 6x10 and then only because it's bloody huge, but then you can't buy one. And even if you could somebody to part with theirs it would cost at least 3 times the money.
As a constructive suggestion, even as guitar amps he might want to look at flaws in his presentation on the site. Boutique amp builders are everywhere and it is a highly competitive market. ---------- LSC
i"m thoroughly enjoying playing bigger venues with my early 1990 BassmanRI with a homemade reverb pedal. That's all I need for now. Plenty of power over the rest of the band. And someone (actually) told me to turn UP!
I think I trolled through Craiglist for years, and searched hi and low on Ebay. Even bought several console and PA tube amps(Bogen, Admiral, Silvertone,etc. And even a Baldwin (4) EL84 (30+watts)power amplifier, modified into a killer amp. I just happened to find the right pre amp, along with a friend who installed a v/c and jacks for me.....They are a little bulky and difficult to make into a manageable size head cab amp. I'm not giving up on it yet, though. I need a back up for my back up, for my back up, for my back up....cuz you never know when one will fizzle out on you...NEVER! Gearhead friends are the coolest to have...too. I'd truly be lost without em. I modify harp mics in my spare time. In order to have great gear at my disposal. This has proven to be a big plus when bartering and haggling for goodies... I had to figure alot of this stuff out by myself pretty much. Between MP, Greg, and help from many others along the way. I am digging the Bassman for now...Now I know what all the fuss is about. The Kim Wilson clip was cool, man. Thanks for posting that one, Greg! He is a tad too restrained for me. But ohhhh so tastey, eh? Someone told me recetently, he saw Kim and kim was constantly playing the harp....CONSTANTLY. Which tells me...ONE THING. If you want to get real good. You need to practice CONSTANTLY! Oh...yeah...Jimmy! ..if was me..I'd have Greg set me up with a good mic. He's by far the best in town! You will not regret it. It will pay for itself over the long run. He has done several modifications for me. He is prompt, fair, and does exceptional work.
---------- Why is it that we all just can't get along?<
"I doubt that an Auble Amp would blow a HarpKing, Sonny Jr, Meteor, or HarpGear off the stage."
Don't know anything about an Auble, but having played through them side by side at jams it is my experience that a Fender Super Reverb will blow away a HarpGear or Sonny Jr. Not even a close contest, UNLESS the player is using a bullet mic. IMHO, HGs and SJs sound much better with a bullet mic than with an XLR style mic. But personally, i don't like using a bullet mic. Both the HG and the SJ sort of remind me of a Fender Bassman. Not identical but sort of in that direction, and I've never particularly liked playing through a Bassman.
Now, HarpKing and Meteor are entirely different animals than HG and SJ. Never actually played through a HK but to my ears they have a sound of their own. I have played through a Meteor with both a bullet and a 545 and it's a very impressive amp with either type of mic. Probably not possible to get a clean sound out of a Meteor, but the distortion is very warm, very articulate, very controllable and very responsive to playing technique. Personally, i'm not into all that distortion, but if i were after that sort of tone, the Meteor would be a great amp
Just my two cents, FWIW.
Btw, I second all the accolades about Greg Heumann and Blows Me Away Productions. Great products, quality workmanship and a terrific guy to do business with.
Last Edited by on Jul 10, 2011 10:09 AM
one more comment on Kims 'signature' tone. It would be safe to say, his 4 draw intro lick, is one of his many noticeable trademark licks...I was searching for the amp he was using, but it's out of camera view...I'm dyin to know. Sure sounds like a Bassman. But there are so many other amps on the market now, equally capable of achieving this 'bark' type of 'crunch'...or am I using the wrong term? I think this is what we all seek when it comes to distortion. Then, there is the clean acoustic sound, ofcourse. Though, he backs off after that little attack. He had me going there for a second. Then, hands the lime lite over to Margolin. Wow! Who needs a second guitarist? Nice gold top, too.
---------- Why is it that we all just can't get along?<
Last Edited by on Jul 10, 2011 11:32 AM
Kim uses different amps at different gigs, depending on what the promoter provides in the back line. I believe he uses a Kinder Mid Bass cut and an ART MP Preamp to shape his tone.
I've also heard that he carries a case with several bullet mics, each with different output gain, in order to match up with whatever the back line amp is so he won't feed back.
But, I suspect KW could produce a killer tone with any equipment. It ain't the hardware.
@hvyu - Tone and/or amp preference is by definition subjective. If a Super Reverb (and we would still have to define which version) was that much better than a HarpGear or an SJ even just for those not playing a bullet mic than no one who plays a stick would ever buy one. It would be more accurate to say you prefer a Super Reverb for your style of playing. Otherwise It's like insisting a Fender Telecaster "blows away" a Gibson 335. Different strokes for different folks.
And I 2nd the statement that Kim Wilson would be killer through pretty much anything. One of the very best harmonica sounds I ever heard was James Cotton sitting in with Johnny Winter on Hoochie Coochie Man at Antone's a couple of years back. Cotton ambled on stage as the song began, sat down in front of the house SM58 on a stand, pulled a harp out of his shirt pocket and began to blow. The sound guy, I was standing next to him, took about literally ten seconds to dial him in and boom, the whole damn room was just filled to the rafters with massive tone. Reminded one of why a harmonica is sometimes called a mouth organ.
Cotton totally blew the roof off the place, got up, and ambled off stage to thunderous applause. His work there done. ---------- LSC
Like I've stated many times here-name ONE current touring pro who uses a Super Reverb-John is stuck on that amp like it's the best thing since sliced bread-get off it man-please.
Estrin was rocking the Super before he got his Harp King. They're not for me, though. I'm pretty happy with my Brown Concert. ---------- 12gagedan's YouTube Channel
I really don't care what touring pro is using what amp. I'm not into hero worship and I'm not trying to imitate anyone. I can get the sound i want from a Super Reverb and it gives me all the volume and presence i am ever going to need or want. And depending on what channel is used and how the tone controls are set it's possible to get a wide variety of different sounds from the SR (but i don't usually do that).
I've played my SR side by side with SJs and HGs at jams and IMHO if you are NOT using a bullet mic, the SR is unquestionably more present, deeper, and more articulate. SJs and HGs do sound different with bullets, and arguably better. I suspect this is because they are designed to be be used with bullets. But i don't use a bullet. I remain profoundly unimpressed with the SJs and HGs I've played through using a 545.
Anyway, historically, Butterfield and Cotton have used SRs and I've seen videos where Estrin and Nemeth were using SRs. When Butterfield and Cotton were using SRs they were NOT playing through bullet mics.
Yeah, i know that Jason Ricci used a HG with an SM57, but I don't particularly like the sound he got playing into his HG with an SM57, but I know a lot of other people would disagree with me about that.
I've had harp players with HGs and SJs come up to me gushing about how their amps are "designed for harmonica." Frankly, I don't care about what an amp is designed for or what pro is using it. All i care about is how an amp sounds with the type of mic I use. For my money, based purely on my own experience A/Bing these amps, I don't understand why SJs and HGs are so highly regarded UNLESS the player is using a bullet mic.
What touring pro is using a Meteor? Name one. Does that mean the Meteor is not a great amp? I can't get my sound out of a Meteor but I think it is a much better sounding amp than either the SJ or HG no matter what kind of mic the player is using.
Anyway, I'm sure the bullet mic and Bassman population will strongly disagree with me about all this stuff.
@LSC: "Tone and/or amp preference is by definition subjective. If a Super Reverb (and we would still have to define which version) was that much better than a HarpGear or an SJ even just for those not playing a bullet mic than no one who plays a stick would ever buy one. It would be more accurate to say you prefer a Super Reverb for your style of playing."
Well, i certainly agree with most of what you are saying. I use a Super Reverb Reissue.
But, I think a certain proportion of HG and SJ users buy those amps because of hype and because some pro or other uses them rather than because of an objective assessment of their actual sound. But maybe I'm cynical.
But, to be fair, although i play blues most of the time these days, it's also important to me to be able to play other styles of electric music with the equipment i use. i do not feel i compromise my blues sound to do this, but, on the other hand, I do prefer a cleaner set up than those players who claim to be in quest of a "Chicago sound." No doubt SJs and HGs are good amps, but I don't find them all that terrific. On the other hand, I'm pretty impressed with the Meteor for achieving what so many players call a "Chicago sound."
Last Edited by on Jul 10, 2011 7:29 PM
It's like I said-name ONE current pro-I don't give a crap about what Rick Estrin used 15-20 years ago -Cotton,Butter,-30 years ago or more-Nemeth was using a Meteor until recently-I will post a clip next post. Gary Primich told me personally he could not wait to get rid of his Blackface Super for his Bassman. Super Reverb;s worked for a select few many years ago-But with guys like Gary Onofrio,Scott Berebrian and John Kinder,the stakes have been raised quite a bit.
Last Edited by on Jul 10, 2011 7:38 PM
@tmf714: To be blunt, i really don't give a crap about what those guys have to say or what amps they are currently using. I think SJs and HGs are overrated based on having played through them.
I've never played through a Kinder. I'm impressed with a Meteor. And I'm not interested in imitating Primich's sound. Frankly, I don't like anything about a Bassman, but if Primich did, God bless him. And in the first video you posted, Nemeth is playing through a Meteor.
Frankly, I'd be taking what you have to say much more seriously if you were talking about YOUR personal experiences with this or that amp in a live performance situation instead of what someone else (pro or otherwise) has to say or is using. Like i said before, I'm not into hero worship. And, in my experience, a lot of the conventional wisdom about amplified harp playing is not necessarily all that valid.
Last Edited by on Jul 10, 2011 8:15 PM
@hvyi - I would hope not your intention but it's coming across like because you like to use a Super Reverb everybody else who likes something else is deluded by hype.
So great you like a Super Reverb. I've played through loads of different amps, as I suspect have many if not most on this forum. Some I liked. Some I didn't. I've played through a SR on a couple of occasions using a CR 520. I got a good tone out of it but I wouldn't buy one. I've played through a Bassman RI on the same stage and in similar circumstances and preferred it, but I wouldn't buy a Bassman either but for different reasons. In either case I would not for a moment call someone deluded if they choose to spend their cash and get either one. At the end of the day if it sounds good to you and you like it it's a good amp...for you.
To say that anyone who doesn't agree with your taste is guilty of hero worship or is deluded is just an insult. Charlie Musslewhite? Gary Smith? Jason Ricci? Deluded hero worshipers? Seriously? Why not allow that all art is subjective and leave it at that? ---------- LSC
@LSC: "Why not allow that all art is subjective and leave it at that?"
Yes, of course. The point I was trying to make is the fact that certain well known players are using certain amps is not as significant a consideration for me as first hand experience with how a particular amp sounds when i play through it.
Although they are great players, neither Ricci nor Musselwhite get an amplified tone I wish to emulate. I don't know who Gary Smith is. You are telling me about your personal experiences with amps which is interesting information that I am paying attention to. I'm not saying those that use SJs or HGs are deluded. But neither do i consider those amps to be the standard by which harp amps are to be judged. Based on my own opportunities to play through them, i was not all that impressed. And the fact that well known players are using them does not alter my first hand impressions.
If other players WHO HAVE ACTUALLY PLAYED THROUGH these amps disagree, I would find an explanation of their first hand experiences to be interesting and useful information. But to say a particular amp is a great amp just because of who is using one is not information that I find helpful or persuasive.
i do believe that quite a few beginning players tend to buy gear based on folklore about what particular gear is supposed to sound good for harp instead of making an objective assessment of how that particular equipment actually sounds compared to other available equipment.
But, yeah, all art is subjective. And an amp that gives Musselwhite his sound may not give you your sound or give me my sound. And may or may not be right for a new player.
Btw, what amp and mic do you like to use and why? I'm not being snide, I'm sincerely interested.
Last Edited by on Jul 10, 2011 10:11 PM
I play through a Sonny Jr Avenger most of the time and it is the best harp amp I've ever played. However of all the non-boutique/harp specific amps I've ever played, only one made the grade as "really great"... and it was indeed a Super Reverb - I got to play through Andy Just's rig. I just don't want to lift it! ---------- /Greg
@hvyi - Im curious dude - What tube changes (if any) or other tweaks did you do to your SR RI man? Im on the hunt for an amp - Would be good to buy locally and have my Amp tech mate help out with any tweaks here and there. I also had a good friend suggest to me on the weekend to try out a Super reverb - AND im using one of Gregs Ultimate 545's... I'm intrigued! ---------- Big Blind Ray's YouTube Channel Mavis and her China Pigs
Thanks for posting the John Nameth stuff. What a talented showman. And killer back up players!! for me, they are the hottest, MAN!
Wrong key...ooops!
I'm using an Admiral (2)EL84 vintage (Ebay)console amp, Rola alinico 12", with a Black CR in a 920 shell. Total investment roughly a couple hundred after all said an done. I still need to finish the cab...does the job for me. Ofcourse the bassman gives so much more headroom and allout tone with the 6L6's and 4X10's...there is no contest. It's whatever floats your boat. As long as you have a good ear, and make it all work for you, too.
---------- Why is it that we all just can't get along?<
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2011 3:43 AM
@BigBlindRay: My SR is a Reissue. There's 6 preamp tubes, 2 power tubes and a tube rectifier, The stock amp comes with !2AX7 preamp tubes in V1, 2, 4 & 5 and 12AT7 preamp tubes in V3 and V6, I thought the stock tubes sounded a little harsh for harp (maybe okay for guitar), so I re-tubed the whole amp with JJs which I think sound fat and warm.
The preamp tubes I put in were: Three JJ ECC81's for V1, V2 and V3, two JJ ECC83S's for V4 and V5 and one JJ ECC832 for the phase inverter in V6.
ECC 81's are 12AT7's ECC83S's are 12AX7's ECC832 is a 12DW7. The 12DW7 is an unbalanced phase inverter tube. There's debate about what this does to the tone, but I like it a lot.
I also put in a a JJ GZ37 rectifier and a matched pair of the JJ 6L6GC power tubes in a hotter grade. Got them on the web from Eurotubes. The only other thing I did to the amp was have a set of removable casters (wheels) put on it because it's heavy (65 lbs.)
The dry channel has a completely different sound from the reverb channel, but both are great for harp. You really have to experiment with the tone controls (using harps in different key ranges) to get the amp dialed in since you can get pretty dramatic variations depending on how the tone controls are set, especially on the reverb channel.
I usually use the reverb channel. The dry channel gives you a very Butterfield like tone and has a more aggressive sound than the reverb channel. The dry channel also has no midrange control.
The amp really comes alive starting at volume settings of 6 and above and can give you substantial tube compression at volume settings of 8 and above. Now, that's REALLY LOUD so to compensate, (besides the preamp tube swaps) I go into the low gain (#2) input and turn the volume control on my 545 Ultimate down to set performance volume and control feedback, leaving the amp volume cranked up to the amp's sweet spot, and this works really well.
As far as tone control settings, I use just enough treble to give me cut (set at 2 or under), otherwise there's potential to feed back. Now, tonally, the amp sounds fine with the treble completely off, but when you get on a gig, you need to turn the treble up just a touch to get enough cut for a live performance environment. The midrange control gives the most audible tonal variations. The amp is so responsive that the bass will be disproportionately loud with low key harps if you leave the bass up too high, I set the bass control at 3 or under and usually at 2 for an even bass response. The midrange control is where the action is, IMHO.
You need to be careful with the VC setting on the mic, but you get used to that. The SRRI and the 545 Ultimate are a great match. The tube driven reverb has a nice warm sound. I leave the reverb set at about 3, but that's purely a matter of taste. Reverb settings above 4 are not likely to be usable, though, and you may not want reverb at all. This amp is capable of real punch, great articulation and very full depth of tone if you set the controls properly.
This amp is very finicky about pedals. Not all pedals will sound good with this amp and you need to be very selective and really have to experiment in order to find ones that match up well with this amp if you are going to use pedals at all.
Hope this answers your questions.
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2011 6:11 AM
"Frankly, I'd be taking what you have to say much more seriously if you were talking about YOUR personal experiences with this or that amp in a live performance situation instead of what someone else (pro or otherwise) has to say or is using." OK=- My first amp was a Silver Twin-100 watts but too heavy,and very feedback prone. Next was Blackface Super-(not a re-issue)-the amp was weak and strange sounding-I could not get a good breakup out of it. On the advice of Gary Primich,I traded it for a RI Bassman the Del Fuegoes had at the time and some cash. I point to point wired it,hand laquered it,installed all NOS tubes ,and had Mason Casey cut the speakers. That was the best harp amp I owned,until I sold it on Ebay,and bought Rod Piazza's personal HarpKing 4x10. I also currently own Dennis Gruenling's 53 Danelectro Maestro with a 12 and all NOS tubes,a 1966 Westwood National amp with 2 8's-all original except for the power cord,and I just purchased a one off Bassman with a 12 and 2 10's,which was the prototype for the Meteor amp,covered with the same fabric as Rick Estrin's personal Meteor. I have used all of them in live situations except the Bsssman/Meteor-the HarpKing is by far the best sounding,most versatile amp I own. I got a chance to play through Kim Wilson's Sonny Jr. 4-10 before it was shipped to him-that particular amp did sound better than my Bassman-it had great early breakup and was loud . I have also played through a 6x10 HarpKing-impressive,but very heavy. I played through Mark Wenners RI Bassman at Amandas Rollercoaster in Phoenix last year-it was ok,but my Bassman sounded better. All great amps-but nothing sounds and performs like a HarpKing-
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2011 6:19 AM
@tmf714: I'd love to try a HarpKing. I think they have an interesting sound.
"Blackface Super-(not a re-issue)-the amp was weak and strange sounding-I could not get a good breakup out of it." Original BF Supers tended to be inconsistent. But A SR is NOT the best amp to use if one wants early break up. Personally, I'm not after break up which is one of the reasons why I like the Super.
I've never heard anyone else characterize a Super as being "weak." But if you were looking for strong and early break up, a Super ain't going to give you that.
One's amp and equipment have to match up to one's particular style of playing and it sounds like the SR would not be a good match for what you are trying to do. Nor is the SJ a good match for the sound I'm after.
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2011 6:30 AM
You know, I am always more interested is learning about different players' first hand experiences with different amps and equipment (rather than testimonials about which pro is using which gear).
I firmly believe that an amplified harp player should have a REASON for selecting particular gear and that reason should relate to the sound that particular player is trying to achieve. IMHO, it's never a good idea to pick gear because this or that amp amp or mic is supposed to be good for harp or because this or that pro is using it.
The only true criteria is what the gear does for YOUR sound. Now that i know Tom likes strong and early breakup, i understand perfectly why he is (and should be) unimpressed with a SR. But if 2 dozen more pros would start using an SJ, that still wouldn't make the SJ any more suitable for the type of sound I'm after.
The moral of the story, IMHO is that a player should try to understand what a particular piece of equipment actually performs and HAVE A REASON for selecting that particular piece of gear based on what it actually does for YOUR sound. FWIW.
The 4x10 Fenders (Tweed Bassman, Concerts & Super Reverb) are all hard to beat as harp amps (as is the 3x10 Brown Bandmaster if potentialy a little quieter than the 4x10"s). The Bassman has a slightly more organic sound, probaby due to the lighter, more flexible semi-floating speaker baffle (rigid 1/2" screwed down on the tolex amps), it also has more of a crunchy mid character (thanks to the cathode follower driving the tone stack) and is a little more tuneable regarding tube subs because each preamp tube only effectively drives one stage of amplification (the tolex Fenders drive 2 stages each with V1 & V2 - so 1x12AY7 in a Tweed Bassman gives a ~55% drop in mu, but in a tolex Fender a 12AY7 in V1 or V2 drops mu by ~80%. In reality what works for an individual may/or may not be affected by this quirk).
As to which of the 4x10"s is the better amp depends on the specific amp in question (they all vary from amp to amp) and what the player as an individual needs.
John Kinder can make a 4x10" Bassman or a Concert sound VERY much like a Harpking, 2 of the 3 proprietry controls on the Harpking were pioneered on these amps. I have a friend who has Harpkings, Concerts & Bassman (with Kinder's mods) he says his bassman can sound "exactly" like the Harpking (his words, not mine - I rarely find that any 2 amps sound "exactly" alike, but I can assure you that they can be set to sound virtually indistuingishable in a blind AB test). But there is nothing EXACTLY the same as a Harpking, other than another Harpking.
@hvyj- Of amps I've owned, everything from a beat to hell Vox AC30, an old British Vamp, several different tube PA heads, a Premier 120 with matching reverb unit (great sound, super cool look, but unreliable)etc. etc., plus a few others that were supplied for me or what was available at a jam. For mics, an old 545, Shure 520D, Shure 520-CM and Shure 520-black CR.
To date my all time favorite of any amp is a Masco MA-25 with original 12" cabs, which I was lucky enough to own, with my 520 black CR. I sold that amp to a museum for a ridiculously large amount of money but I really wish I still had it. My 2nd favorite of all time, a 57 Tweed Bandmaster belonging to Jimi Lee. I've had the pleasure of using that twice.
As for my personal gigging rigs, I had an original '65 Vibrolux Reverb which I really liked a lot. I play both harp and guitar and plugged the harp into Normal and the guitar into the other. It was stolen in 1991 just before a tour. I replaced it last minute with a new '63 Vibroverb Reissue. I was using a 520D at the time. I knew nothing about tube swapping and all that and played it stock quite happily for 12 years. When I moved back to the States in 2003 I bought another one which I still own, though I've replaced the speakers with a pair of Weber 10125-O, one of which blew and had to be replaced recently with a RI Jensen P10Q. I also swapped out the tubes for NOS RCAs including black plate 6l6s. The exception being an Amprex Bugle Boy 12at7 in Normal which is fantastic for harp. Really smooth.
About four years ago I discovered the wonderful little Kalamazoo. I have two Zoos, one is a genuine closet find including original clear vinyl dust cover. The other was recovered in a black snakeskin textured Tolex by the previous owner. In that I installed all NOS RCA tubes and a Weber 10A100. It also has a speaker side line out for running into the PA. That and the 520-CR with a LW Harp Delay has been my main gigging rig in situations where I don't play guitar. On larger stages or when I do play guitar I'll run the Zoo into the Normal channel of the Vibroverb or use the Verb alone.
After decades of steady gigging, mostly pro, I've been forced to take some time off, and, for a variety of other reasons, in the meantime decided to deconstruct my harp playing and put it back together again. I want to come back being better than before and the best I can possibly be.
As we all know, or should, what gear you use is the least important part of the equation. So I've begun to study again like in the early years. I'm taking lessons for the first time and taking advantage of things like Youtube where I can actually watch as well well as hear the greats and discover players I didn't even know existed.
Although my rig has served me well for ages there were times when I felt it was fighting me a bit and I've tweaked things about as much as was possible. To eliminate that excuse and after exhaustive research I've ordered a Super Cruncher. Also so I don't have to ever bring two amps just for harp. Although I'll continue to use the 520 as my main mic, I want to transplant the CR element into a smaller lighter body from Greg Heumann when finances allow. I recently came across an Ultimate 545 with Bulletizer and vintage element at a price too good to pass up. I'll use that for a bit of a tone option and backup. A 545 was my first and only mic for years.
So, when I make my big comeback :), I'll be using a Super Cruncher with a black label CR in one body or the other, and a LW Harp Delay, but way way more importantly, improved knowledge and technique.
Last Friday I got invited to a jam at a Legion Hall and the guitarist that invited me let me use his Frontman for my harp. The guitars were acoustic and I had the amp volumn on 1 and since I dont have a volumn control on my mic it was very difficult to get a decent sound to me. Every one else said it sounded good and we played for a few hours just toolin' around southern blues rock songs and some country stuff. Saturday night I played my 3 songs with the rock band mentioned in the first post of this thread through the PA. The bar was crouded and the responce was awesome. When I play through the PA the soundman takes care of my tone and I am lucky cause he made the band sound great all night. I went to GC Saturday afternoon and tried to order the PRRI trading in my gear but they wouldnt give me what I needed so I have the gear on CL and I have sold one cab. I'm sure it will all sell and eventually I will end up with the PRRI. ---------- Jimmy Famous
The Princeton Reverb Reissue is a great harp amp, but you will have to mic it up with a full band most of the time. A Bassman style amp would be a better choice with a loud band most of the time in my opinion.
Here's me playing through a PRRI with a full band and miced into the PA. To give you an idea of what to expect sound wise.
Ok, first off thank you kingley for the flic. After watching that, maybe the PRRI is a little small. (Great playing and vocal though) But I think that a 4x10 Bassman would be too big. What do you think about this? http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/msg/2487153724.html Does this original Blues deluxe have a tube rectofier or is it solid state. The reason I was interested in the PRRI was it was all tube including the recto. My condolences to Domingo's family, I talked with him a few times at the GC, he was a great guy. Jimmy Famous
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2011 1:30 PM
Jimmy , That blues deluxe looks like a piece of Crap ! did you notice all the beer stains on the upper back pannel ! But just to end all of this nonsense of what you should buy or not buy I say go buy it !
I'd buy a 4X10 amp whether a Bassman, Super Reverb, Concert or harp specific/boutique. It's the only way to go with a loud band in my opinion. I wouldn't touch a Blues Deluxe with a barge pole for harp.
Forget rectifiers...yes an amp will sound diffrent with different tubes, versus solid state, but there are good harp amps that have solid state rectifiers, like the early 60's 6L6 amps (Concert, Bandmaster, Pro, Blackface Concert, Kinder Harpkings & Soulful). However, the Blues Deluxe really needs some circuit mods to get the best out of it, tube subs only go so far (a pal of mine has a killer Blues Deluxe...it just took a few circuit tweaks, a new cab & x3 new 10" speakers...which will cost nearly as much as the amp itself!).
@JimmyFamous: You may want to try a Fender Deluxe Reverb Reissue. A little more power, higher gain and larger (12") speaker than the PRRI. I don't particularly like them, but a lot of harp players do. Tube swaps will definitely be necessary to control feedback.
Too high gain for my taste and I prefer 10" speakers for harp anyway, but some players like the crunchier tone you can get out of a DRRI. They probably have one in stock at Guitar Center that you can try.
Btw, I get a much different sound from my PRRI than Kingley gets from his. He's swapped out at least one preamp tube and is using a bullet mic. I use a 545 Ultimate and although i re-tubed my amp with JJs the tube configuration is the same as the stock PRRI. Like i do with my SRRI I crank the volume on the amp upto 6 or 7 and turn the volume down at the mic. (I don't know if you can do this as effectively with a bullet mic--I'm not saying you can't, I just don't know if turning output volume down a a bullet mic will degrade the tone of the mic. It does NOT degrade the tone of the 545, though.) I turn the bass all the way up and the treble all the way down and the amp sounds deeper, darker and fuller than Kingley's set up. I get a thicker and less trebley tone.
Now, there's no midrange tone control on this amp, and with the bass all the way up it sounds a little boxy, so I put a set of Fender 14" tilt back legs on it and the tone evens out and opens up very nicely when it's tilted back which is what I do when I play through it. At volume settings 7 and above, (or 6 and above if the mic is hotter), you will get nice tight warm break up when you push the PRRI hard, but not much punch It's an amp that's capable of a lot of different sounds.
What kind of sound/tone are you after? What is it about the sound of Kingley's set up that you don't like?
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2011 2:53 PM
Jimmy, I second Todd's emotion. If there's someone out there that thinks that amp has been taken care, is in excellent condition, and thinks that $600 for an "original" version of a reissue that is now selling for $750 is a good deal, I've got some oceanfront property in Arizona I'd like to offer them.
Look, just stop driving your mind loco with all this stuff. Go to blowsmeaway.com and get on the waiting list for one of Greg's Kalamazoo Model 1 or 2. When he has one for you ask for the line out mod so you can feed it to a PA when necessary. It will cost around half of that Blues Deluxe.
What you'll get is a vintage amp that's been gone through by someone who really know so that you can trust there will be no problems and you know will sound really good. It will be easy to grab and go to a jam and get a good break up at low volume for practicing at home. It's only about 8 watts technically but that don't mean squat. It will be plenty loud enough for just about any bar. Just get it up off the ground. If you need more volume, take a cable and plug it into the PA.
I took mine to a gig once with a guitar player using a beast of a Fender Twin and was asked to turn down. I replied, "It's an 8 watt amp on 6. How far can I turn it down?" I've had many remark what a litle monster it is. In fact the last gig I did the PA guy came up at load in and said, "Harp player?" "Yup" "Thought so when I saw the Kalamazoo." "It's got a speaker side line out for you." "Excellent"
You will end up with have a vintage amp that is nonetheless reliable and you will never loose money on it. But trust me, you'll never willing sell it.
With a Kalamazoo you'll have a good solid piece of equipment to discover the joys of amplification. Down the road when you've learned more, gained experience, and had the chance to actually try what else is out there when you decide to move up to something bigger you will be making an informed choice based on your own experience and style.
Here is an old clip of the sound of a Zoo Model 1 with a 520D which is not even the best bullet. http://www.stevepower.us/Clips/Flip,%20flop,%20&%20fly.mp3
---------- LSC
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2011 2:50 PM
Toddg, sorry if I am a pain in your butt. This is not nonsence to me. Kingley, Thanks, I think you have given me the best advice here. And after your flic, you have convinced me to get a 4x10. I just ordered an in line volumn control from Greg, so I will be ready to go when I get an amp. And I will not be shopping at GC either! ---------- Jimmy Famous
LSC, Your right I am driving myself NUTS!! What I have learned here in this thread is that no one amp will be good for all playing situations. And I don't know what I was thinking when I tried out a bunch of amps with a mic that has no volumn control "duh, I feel so stupid". If the GC manager would have made me a deal I would have made a big mistake by getting the PRRI. So, I just don't know what I am going to end up with. The Zoo sounds like it might be right, but, Toddg's cruncher sounds like a good bet too, but I would need to get used to the idea of BIG! AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!! ;-) ---------- Jimmy Famous
Jimmy you are not a pain in my butt or anyone else . I was just trying to say everytime someone suggests a great amp to you that would work with a loud band you go to another amp . like someone else said before most harp players on here have more then one harp amp ,you started the post asking us what amp mic would be best for a loud band everyone has told you with 100 watt marshalls and 4x12 cabs you will still need to mic it or use a line out .the final decision is yours in the end of what you want or can afford to buy good luck with your choice !
