So far, I have only played a few gigs (on the harp) with a rock cover band. I started playing "Train Train" by Blackfoot. Then added "Roadhouse Blues" by the Doors. Now we are working on adding "I Do" by J. Geils and "What I like about you" by The Romantics. I am very excited about having the opportunity to play with a band. The band consists of 2 guitarists using Marshall 100 watt 4X12's, bass and drums. It's pretty loud up there. I have been playing through the PA using an Audix I5 which i believe is very similar to a Shure SM 57. The stage monitor is shared with the vocalist, and although it sounds ok and its really easy to walk in with my gear in my pocket, I am thinking about an Amp and Bullet type mic to further improve my tone and to keep moving forward in my harmonica playing experience. I would like to buy new gear at the local GC because I will be trading in other gear to offset the cost. And I would be comfortable spending up to $1500 for an amp and mic. If anyone has advise or recomendations on the ideal amp and mic please respond.
If you want and easy set-up and good solid sound, take a look at the Lone Wolf Harp Attack. It's a pedal that can really make you sound like you're playing through a tube amp. For a mic, check out Blows Me Away productions. If you want to spend the money, one of his custom wood bullets ain't a bad way to go. I use this pedal along with the Lone Wolf Harp Delay straight into the PA.
If you wan an amp, While you are on www.blowsmeaway.com, check out the Kalamazoo 2. I just received one of these great amps, set up with the line out option. I run the line out to the PA and use the amp as my stage monitor. Everyone, including my wife, tells me that this is the best tone/volume combination that I have ever had. By the way, I'm also using one of Blows Me Away custom wood bullets.
Thanks Dan, If I sell my gear on craigslist that could be an option. But I was thinking about walking into GC with my used gear and walking out with new stuff. One of my ideas was a Shure Green Bullet and Fender Princeton Reverb Reissue. ---------- Jimmy Famous
Last Edited by on Jul 03, 2011 12:49 PM
I'm no expert but that won't keep me from tossing in my two cents.
With the amount of money you're willing to spend you should be able to get a good set up. However, good harmonica gear doesn't seem to be readily available at guitar center. In addition, you'll (probably) get more money for your gear on craigslist. Which translates to being capable of purchasing better harp gear and from a wider varity of venders.
General consensus says The green bullets you can pick up at guitar center aren't as good as the older ones. (that didnt keep me from picking a DX up on eBay) but for the kind of money you have to spend you can do better.
I'm sure plenty of experienced "giggers" can chime in with which amp or which this or that you should get. I'd first recommend picking up Adams "amping the harp" video and doing plenty of reading on this and other pages.
7.o.3, thanks. I have spent alot of time researching the issue. I have also tried out several amps including some vintage Fenders. One of them was an old Deluxe '60 something and it was SWEET, but very expensive. I wonder if Dans suggestion about a lone wolf harp attack pedal and a powered monitor would be the way to go? Here's another thing to throw in, I drive a mini cooper so thats why I was thinking Princeton as it fits in the boot.
I can second that the Shure Green Bullet DX is not worth the cash unless you get a really good deal and use it for the shell. I have one from a friend that I have used and there is really no comparison to an old bullet and since you have the cash and seem to want that sound go all the way. Lots of good harp mic guys on this site just do a search.
If you are asking what is CM or CR I suggest you may need to do a bit more research for mics. It is kind of a basic thing to know when considering purchasing a bullet harp mic/tube amp set up.
Maybe read this from Greg's site at blowsmeaway. It is amazingly good for info.
The current 520DX has a dynamic element. The older CM and CR elements are far superior tonally to the dynamic one in the 520DX. My best advice would be to buy a bullet mic with a CM element from either Greg Heumann (www.blowsmeaway.com, Jeff Spoor (www.harpmicgaskets.com) or bluesace55 on ebay. Those three guys do great harp mics at reasonable prices.
jasonL & Kingley, Thank you so much, that gives me the info i am looking for on a bullet. As to the Princeton Reverb Reissue, do you think a Sonny Jr. or a Harp gear is a better way to go?
The Princeton Reverb Reissue is a great amp for harmonica. It won't compete with those 100 Watt Marshall amps though. I'd go for a Fender Bassman LTD, Fender Super Reverb Reissue, Sonny Jr or a Harpgear HG50. All great harp amps.
Kingley Thanks, Yikes, those are all larger than what will fit in my car. hmmmm??? maybe I need a bigger car. lol. Maybe I should get the Princeton and use my I5 to mic it?
Last Edited by on Jul 03, 2011 2:26 PM
But, if you are looking for an amp and mic I would recommend a Fender Super Reverb Reissue and a 545 Ultimate.
Personally, unless you are using a bullet mic, I think the SRRI is a much superior amp to the Harp Gear or the Sonny Jr, based on my hearing and playing through all of them side by side at blues jams. But, YMMV. I LOVE my SRRI. Wouldn't trade it for anything. Hands down my absolute favorite tube amp for harp. Second favorite would be a Princeton Reverb Reissue, which is a great harp amp, but a little too small for your gig, IMHO.
hvyj thanks, Playing through the PA is cool because I just bring my harp and mic. Eventually I would like to get into a blues band and I was thinking that the PRRI would fit that bill also. So far I have not heard anything negative about the Princeton except for it being a little too small, but I think the remedy can be just mic it. Thank you all for the responses.
Last Edited by on Jul 03, 2011 3:14 PM
If your after buying a new harp amp I would try Sonny JR Super Cruncher or Meteor 15 . ebay ID bluesace makes some great harp mics. if the amp is not loud enough they have a line out... If you want a really loud amp the Sonny JR avenger has got to be about the best
If you prefer the simplicity and ease of playing into the PA, nothing at all wrong with that--in that case I'd second the recommendation for the LW Harp Attack. Alternatively, get a good 5W amp like a Kalamazoo or Epiphone Valve Jr with a line out (easy to add if needed). The advantage to the small amp is you can use it for practice or take it to friends' houses for informal jams, and use it on stage as a monitor when you're getting most of your volume from the PA (trust me, even with a big amp you'll often need to go through the PA with a loud band in a larger venue)--and it's small, light, and easily transportable. You can get other, bigger amps later (hey, we boys need our toys) but you'll always use your small amp. As far as mics go, the I5 isn't a bad mic (I have one), but for that real Chicago tone, if you can afford it, I'd treat myself to one of Greg's CM or CR bullets, and use the Audix to mic my amp if I so desired. My $.02.
mrdon46 thanks, I tried a small 5 watt and don't find it practical at all. Even though I have not played through a Princeton RRI, no one has said anything negative about it yet, except for it not being loud enough for my situation, I am leaning towards it. Now I have looked at Blows me away and I did not see a simple bullet with a CM or CR. It seems he does custom wood starting at almost 300 bucks. Actually, I don't think I play well enough to warrant a $300 mic. As I stated in my first post I would like to walk in to GC and walk out with the gear. What about the Astatic JT30? are they better or worse than the Green Bullet?
Last Edited by on Jul 03, 2011 5:41 PM
There's been some good advice and I agree with alot of what's been said. Guitar center is def not the optimal way to go on selling gear in terms of seeing the best return. Craigslist would be more effective, but obviously take more time. Also, Harpgear and Sonny Jr amps would be a great way to go, albeit prob over your $1500 budget with a mic. However, I'll try and give you advice in terms of your actual post. To pick up everything at GC and walk out the door for around $1500: PRRI would be a good bet at about 1200 or so Shure 57 to play through will be a good match with the amp, will still give you the deep gritty sound of a bullet if cupped properly, and will be more feedback resistant than the gb and jt30 you're asking about. $100 Pick up a ev609 or 906 depending on budget to mic the amp. Both are great mics and have solid bass response. $100-180 Add a carbon copy delay to fatten up your sound for $140 or so. If you trade in gear you should get 10% off your total and should push for even more with a purchase that size cuz they'll give it to you. That will put you at or under the $1500 your wanted to spend. Then when you get a chance/ feel like the 57 is a little heavy send it to Greg at blows me away and have him Ultimize it for $120. You'll have a lighter more comfortable mic with volume control that you can also play straight to the PA if you get it set up low imp. Just my two cents. Hope it helps
Last Edited by on Jul 04, 2011 8:52 AM
Don't do it! Guitar Center knows NOTHING about amplified harmonica. The current green bullet has an inferior element to older ones which are still available all over eBay and elsewhere. It is also bigger around, which makes it hard to cup, and it weighs a friggin' ton, whgich makes it about the heaviest shell on the planet - so even if you think you'll "invest" in it later - it is a bad starting point.
The Harp Attack into a PA will get you SOME of the tone of an amp - and that is a perfectly reasonable and inexpensive solution - but while it will get you close it is certainly not the same thing as a good tube amp.
The Fender amp is a great amp but will probably be very prone to feedback as setup from the factory - it has an awful lot more gain than you need for harp. (This is done to let guitar players flirt in the feedback zone - but guitar strings and pickups are far less good at coupling to sound waves coming from the amp than a microphone is. The solution is simple - you can reduce the gain with tube substitution and turn it into a much friendlier amp.
You're right - my wood mics are not the cheapest solution to great tone. I DO have metal shells and elements though, and I can build you a great mic for about $200 that will have better tone, be easier to cup, and lighter than a 520DX.
If you aren't into bullets you might consider an Ultimate 57 - one of the most versatile mics available. $219 - and it is like the Shure SM57 you've played, but 30% lighter, 30% shorter for MUCH more hand-holding comfort, and with a built-in volume control. More info @ Ultimate Series Mics
Thank you, Swezey8 and thank you Greg Heumann, Greg, I have only played through a bullet mic once, at an open jam that someone let me use for 2 songs. To me it seemed a little weak, but I did not have any control over the amp, only the volume knob which I maxed out so I could hear myself over the band. All of my other live playing situations so far have been using the Audix I5, which to me sounds pretty good. The tone I am looking for is the classic Chicago style tone. Kim Wilson has a great tone to me. I really don't know if I need a bullet mic to get that sound or if I can get it with a SM57 or my I5? I have thought about simply getting your attachable volume control's to use with my I5.
One thing for sure is, I have now changed my mind about the Princeton and will try to sell my stuff on CL so that I can purchase a "Harmonica" amp.
This forum and the people here are awesome! Many thanks to Adam for getting this started and to everyone who participates.
Todd, I agree, they are really sexy cool man!! I'm still wondering if I should go with a bullet or stick?? Can I get deep Chicago style tone with a stick, or do you really need the bullet shell?
Last Edited by on Jul 04, 2011 11:12 AM
You can get good tone from the SM57, and it's cheap and very available everywhere. You will need an impedance transformer to plug it into an amp in a lot of cases, but those things aren't that expensive, and you can get started playing on a solid mic that you might just like. You can always have it "Ultimate-ized" if you decide you like it. Another good thing is that if you end up playing through something else, you can use the SM57 to mic an amp or sing through if you wanted to do that. It never hurts to own a 57.
check with richard hunter. he uses a mic, keyboard amp and the digitech 355. with it, you can go anywhere you want sound wise. i'm sure there is a youtube of him.
I would suggest any kind of small tube amp 25 watts or less pre 1970 and look into any of the Shaker Harp mics they have a good sound and work well. Big Tank Taylor
Hi Jimmy , I've got a deal for you .I have a like new Sonny Jr Cruncher amp in mint condition and a Hohner Blues blaster mic with a hot crystal element in it and I'll sell them to you for 1,500 . shipping included . My contact info is on my website
Last Edited by on Jul 04, 2011 1:04 PM
Toddg, That sounds like a good deal. Wanna trade for some bass gear lol??? So far, what I see is: Meteor Amps Sonny Jr. Harp Gear. I kinda like the HG35. maybe this and a wooden bullet from Greg is the way to go. Heck!, maybe I should get my initials on the grill while I'm at it.
Last Edited by on Jul 04, 2011 2:03 PM
For Kim Wilson's tone, first and foremost you would have to be Kim Wilson, of course. He has a unique and wonderful acoustic tone that translates to his amp'ed tone. HOWEVER if you had his EXACT acoustic tone, you could only have his amplified tone by using similar mics and amps. Kim uses tube amplifiers - a bunch of different ones but usually a Fender-syle amp - and bullet mics - he uses both crystal and CR-equipped mics, including a BlowsMeAway wood mic as seen in this video:
You can get very close to that tone, but it will take a good tube amp - no pedal will do that - a good mic, almost certainly a bullet - its characteristic shape allows for a larger chamber between harp and mic inside one's cup and this helps deepen the sound -- and finally, a LOT of mic technique that it takes a lot of practice to learn.
ToddG's offer is outstanding - those are both top notch pieces of gear. If you can afford it, DO IT. You will not be wasting your money - those items will hold their value but even more importantly, I can assure you with 100% confidence that that system is capable of producing outstanding harp tone. The rest is up to you - but because you KNOW you have great gear, it will help you develop your technique quickly.
Greg, Thanks for the video. I know that having great gear will not make me a great player, but, it will allow me to flirt with the possibilities of it. I have played in bands as a drummer, guitarist and bassist and know that good tone goes a long way. I will contact you through your site for my mic. Jimmy
I personally use an ampeg reverbarocket with one twelve in speaker in it, or a 68 silver face fender super reverb, both with nice tone I tried using a digitech 355 and all it did was cause a lot of feed back. Most amps are not built for harps, so do a lot of going to music stores and trying them out. I believe Rick Estrin was using a peavy amp whic only had an eight inch speaker in it, he sit it on a stool and ran a mic on it. Great tone and sound. Tank
Jimmy ,If you want the amp with out the mic I can do it for 1,400 shipped ,Ask greg about the Sonny JR amps I have 2 the super sonny and the cruncher .the only reason I'm selling it is because I want the avenger . I might even sell the SS too for the right price .both are like new .
Last Edited by on Jul 05, 2011 12:41 AM
I'd grab the offer from toddg before he comes up out of the either. Despairing of finding a Sonny Jr. used I just this weekend committed to a new SJ Super Cruncher. When I saw toddg's offer I was gutted. I could have saved a lot of money. Keeping one's word can sometimes be expensive.
Failing that, from what I can gather from your post as to your needs, I'd go for a custom wood mic and a Kalamazoo from Greg Heumann with the line out option. Hell you could even add a LW Harp delay and a Kinder AFB+ and still have change left over for lessons. ---------- LSC
Don't worry, LSC - you won't be disappointed with your SC! And Todd - if Jimmy doesn't take your amp, I might have a customer for you - feel free to contact me off line. ---------- /Greg
Todd, There is no way I can purchase your Sonny Jr. I just don't have the cash. If you have a chance to sell it, go for it and good luck. ---------- Jimmy Famous
Jimmyfamous, that SJ cruncher for 1400$ sounds like a good deal, but a number of changes were made during the evolution of the amp. I wouldn't go for the 12/10 speaker setup but 12/2x8 setup. The superized is superior top the normal one. The HG35 is not the same animal as a SJ. If you like pedals and all that, go for a HG. I hate pedal meself. I used a Fender Concert 1960 a while back and it had a huge pedal board attached to it. I thought the pedals sucked the life out of the amp so I plugged straight into the amp.
Here is my newest idea. Go to gc and trade my gear for a bassman ri and change out the tubes. What you all need to understand is I dont have cash, but I have some very expensive stuff (mesa boogie) that will get me close to the price of the bassman. Here is one thing I dont get. If a princeton is not enough power, how would a kalamazoo be enough as a monitor? Also, I would be able to use the bassman with my guitar, bass and harp.
Last Edited by on Jul 05, 2011 12:31 PM
hvyj, No, my Mesa is 350 watts. Its a "real" bass amp. The Bassman seems to be more practical, but, I do wish it had reverb. I'm really glad I asked the questions here. Lots of good feedback. Still curious about the kalamazoo being good for a monitor and a princeton being too small... ???? ---------- Jimmy Famous
Last Edited by on Jul 05, 2011 1:51 PM
Used Bassman RI's can be found pretty cheap on ebay. I personaly hate the tone from modern "520DX" Green bullets. They sound the same to me regardless of amp/player.
There's about a million ways to skin this cat. You just have to pick one and see how it goes. Everybody will claim to have "the answer" but that's marketing or opinion. One man's "best amp in the world" is another man's "I'd never buy that". Your taste is what matters. A good discussion of band dynamics, and coming down to support the harp will also serve you well.
Oh, and I'm sure you know this, but haggle like crazy at GC. If you must buy there, don't get taken for more than you have to. ---------- 12gagedan's YouTube Channel
@JimmyFamous: This is a little unconventional, but try playing harp through your bass amp to find out what it sounds like. I regularly use an SWR Baby Baby Blue acoustic bass amp for gigs and it sounds great. I've also played through other bass amps that sounded very good for harp. I'm not suggesting that every bass amp does, but there are actually quite a few that do. I think it has to do with the larger coupling caps and the nature of the EQ for the low mids. Try it before you trade it in. You'll need to spend some time experimenting with the EQ settings, but if you take the time to do that, you may be surprised.
FWIW, in my band we don't like to mic any of the amps unless we mic all the amps. Why? Balance. If you use a small amp and mic it, unless you've got monitors and mix the feed from from the harp amp into the monitors, you're still going to have problems hearing yourself if the rest of the instruments are played loud through large amps. And if you're going to feed the harp amp mic through the monitors anyway, you might as well just play through the PA like you have been. Personally, I have never agreed with the "use a small amp and mic it" concept. But, again, that's probably a minority opinion. But IMHO, the FOH sound is usually out of balance if one amp is mic'd and the others aren't.
Anyway, I'm not sure a Bassman OR a Super Reverb will cut through 2 guitars played through Marshall 4x12s. If i were playing with a band that had that sort of amplification and was playing loud, I very well might chose to play through the PA, which, after all is the largest amp in the room (and has the most flexible and sophisticated EQ). As a practical matter, it may be the only way to hear and be heard since 4x12 Marshalls move A LOT of air. Or, try your bass amp. Sometimes you can play harp VERY loud through a bass amp without feeding back if the controls are dialed in properly.
Last Edited by on Jul 05, 2011 3:16 PM
JimmyFamous- RE: Kalamazoo vs Princeton and "volume". The short answer is power is not the only factor in what is perceived as volume. It's a like a 5'2" 100 pound woman has many times knocked a 6' 200lb man on his ass. With an amp the question is,"How well can I hear it and do I like what I hear?"
Your desire to simply swap gear at GC may be the easiest route but frankly, it's not the smartest. It's like trading in for a new car. You're not going to get what the trade in is worth and you're going to pay more for the new stuff than if you paid cash. You'll also loose money on the resale value as soon as you walk it out the door. You'll loose hundreds of dollars in both directions. Maybe the ease of the transaction is worth it to you but I kind of think you don't have money to burn.
I would suggest selling the privately gear that you were going to trade, craigslist or ebay are the obvious venues. In the meantime, be patient and figure out what you want to buy. Then when you have cash in hand, look for the best deal. Again, be patient. Hell on a Bassman RI LTD alone the retail is $1399, usually plus tax. There are two on ebay right now in mint condition for less than $1000 inclusive of shipping. With the $400 savings you could buy a killer custom mic and have change left over for tube swaps or whatever. Hell take out your lady for a meal. She'll think you're a rock star, take you home and slap a smile on your face. You ain't gonna get that in no Guitar Center I ever heard of. ---------- LSC
Ok, let's say I keep playing through the PA with this "Rock" band. Like I said it's not bad and the soundman does a decent job too. I still want to purchase an amp for my future "Blues" band. Let's forget about the mic cause I am going to order one through Greg after I sell my gear. Is the Kalamazoo the right way to go? Is it loud enough to play with say, guitarists with typical fender combo's and drums and bass?? ---------- Jimmy Famous
It's not always a matter of how loud. There's also a question of presence.
For example, I had been using my SWR bass amp with my blues band (120 watts, one 10" speaker). Then the guitar player got a custom Fuques guitar amp (100 watts, two 12s)--which, btw, is a great sounding amp. With my SWR I could easily compete with the Fuques as far as volume was concerned, but with two 12s, the guitar amp was moving so much more air the guitar sound had much more presence than the harp sound and we sounded out of balance. We regularly swap lengthly solos, so a balanced presentation is important for what we do. So, i started using my Super Reverb (four 10s) which moves enough air that i was able to achieve comparable presence in relation to the guitar amp which gives us an overall more balanced sound. So, IMHO, it's not purely a matter of volume alone.
A Kalmazoo, like a Princeton Reverb, is a great harp amp but they are both small amps. And less powerful than my SWR Baby Baby Blue. The four 10s in my Super Reverb (with some swapped out preamp tubes) give me enough authority (volume and presence) for any gig i am likely to play. A Bassman also has four 10s. I never use my Princeton in a full electric band setting.
Last Edited by on Jul 05, 2011 5:32 PM
So here's what you need to do...... Buy a great mic. Actually buy a few of them. Probably want at least: a Shute sm57, a vintage 520 and one more just because. For your amp(s): First, buy a pedal set up for playing through a PA system Next you need a small practice amp for around the house. After that you should buy a medium amp, a Kalamazoo or Princeton reverb would fit the bill. You can also use this amp as a monitor for you PA set up. Finally you need one gigantic amp to ensure you can go toe to toe with any guitarists set up. I'd also stash a huge wad of cash somewhere handy incase one of the listed set ups don't work and you need to run out and pick up another perfect amp.
Basically, what I've learned from this thread is that there is no perfect one size fits all amp. Unless you have endless amount of cash you'll have to settle on a few circumstances. Perhaps envesting in a good rig should wait until you're settled in to a band setting and know what everybody else has going on.
I do enjoy threads like this. But my pignose 7-100 and 520dx are MY perfect rig for MY current Playing situation. Probably because I bought it specifically for my current situation. ; )
I've been playing for a year and a half, my tone goes from not bad to shi***. A few months ago I started looking at bullet mics and amps. I fixed my budget at 200$ because I'm not ready to jam or gig the important thing was to get a good mic because if it sounds like shit I couldn't blame gear. I bought a custom SUKM Rharley Silver bullet and a Danelectro Honeytone.I payed my mic almost the same price I would have payed a Hohner BluesBlaster or a shure 520dx. Perfect setup for appartment playing. The more I play with it the better it sounds. I also have a Traynor guitar mate 20 that I use with an electric guitar. I tried it with the bullet when I received it, sounded really bad. Tried it today sounds better because of my improved technique. Bad gear will sound bad, good gear will also sound bad without good technique.
Martin ---------- Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Isaac Asimov
something to consider. if i wasn't accustomed to playing through an amp, i wouldn't be inclined to drop $1500 on gear. i wouldn't even know what to look for. you might consider easing into it. spend $200 or so for a VHT special 6 (may not be available at GC) or even a good modeling amp like a vox vt-30 or roland cube 30 (which are available at GC). if you're happy with your mic, fine, else another $100 for an sm57 is always a good investment. take some time to learn how to make this combo work, what you like and don't like, the relationship between the controls, etc. then, when you decide you're ready to trade up to something expensive, you'll have some knowledge and experience to base your decision on.
Ok obviously no one is gonna acknowledge the fact that I have posted advice on here, I am player who has endorsements with lee oskar and Shaker Harp mics now im gonna chime in one more time go on the internet google Marc Auble or Marc Auble Amps get his contact number Call him tell him Tank Taylor told you to call, he will build you an amp to your specs that will blow anything off the stage, he is an electronics guru he rebuilt a 63 showman head for me into a 59 bassman head from the original schematics he knows his stuff and it shure nuff wont set you back any $1500 either. Enjoy Tank it dont have to be loud it just needs to be tasty!!!
