Practically speaking, what does playing in the 2nd position mean, besides playing exactly 5 scale degrees higher than the actual key of the harp. When you play in the 2nd position are you limited to certain notes only? Also had questions about chords. As I understand it a chord is a group of notes. However a book I'm reading says Blues uses three chords for its construction: the I chord, IV chord, and V chord. Does this mean your limited in the chords on the harp you can use to play the blues? Every blues song is played with chords? I"m very confused. Any help is greatly appreciated thank you.
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The harmonica was laid out as a compromise between form and function. They wanted to make it easy to play German Oompah music. (Seriously!!!) If you sit down and look at a chart of what holes a harmonica has it's designed to be easy to play chords. The top and bottom octave are missing notes. If you don't know how to bend notes you can only play a complete octave in the middle octave. The idea was that that was were you'd want to play most of your music. You'd use the low octave to play chugging chords and when the other members of the band let you have a solo you could play all the notes you needed in the middle with a few high squeaky notes for effect. (I'm over simplifying a bit, but bear with me.) By leaving out a few notes they made the harmonica smaller and made the chords line up easier. (For it's simplest purposes, a chord is just three notes in a scale with a skipped note between each one, for instance, in the key of C which has no flats or sharps the notes C E G for the I chord. D F A is the ii, E G B is the iii, F A C is the IV, and G B D is the V, etc. If you don't know about why some chords are capitalized and some aren't, don't worry about that right now. You can get started and learn some of the nitty-gritty later on if you want.)
At some point someone figured out that if you screwed your mouth up in a certain shape you could get the draw notes from 1-6 to change. You can get other notes to change too but 1-6 are the ones most people learn first. What was even cooler is that the bent notes had a different timbre (sound). Draw notes sound dirtier and more bluesy than blow notes and bent draw notes sound bluesier still.
The diatonic harmonica (as opposed to the chromatic which has the button on the end) was designed to play in one key at a time, but clever players figured out that if you bent a few notes you could play other scales (in fact all 12, but most players just buy a bunch of harps and stick to a couple of the easy positions), and they really liked the sound of those bent notes.
I don't know if you know the circle of fifths, but basically it's a pattern in music. It's helpful for remembering all sorts of things, particularly how many flats or sharps a key has. The key of C, like I said before, doesn't have any. On a piano it's all white keys. The next key over is G. G only has 1 sharp (F#). That means that except for the F being sharp instead of natural it uses the same notes as the C scale, and because of the way the harmonica is laid out, the important notes in the blues scale. In practical terms it means you don't have to bend a lot of notes. (Here's a link to a nice little chart.)
So, are you limited in the notes you can chose in 2nd position? Without some of the advanced techniques, a little, but not severely, and you are limited in first position too (unless you buy a solo tuned 12 hole diatonic, which are technically easier to play melodies on but don't work as well for chords).
Now, the I IV V question...
Most blues use the I IV V progression, for instance, the most common progression is 12 Bar Blues, which goes for twelve measures at a time (it can go through the 12 Bars several times before it gets back to the start). Chords sound good. That's why the harmonica is set up to play them so easily, but more importantly, when you play notes together that aren't part of a chord they don't sound good so people avoid it (there are exceptions, but don't worry about that now.) So, let's look at some options to see how many options you really have. So, if you are playing in a band and playing some 12 Bar Blues the first 4 measures (in 4/4 time that's 16 quarter notes) are all on the I chord. If you are in the key of G (you'd have the C harp out) the bass player might be playing along playing a lot of G's and then a few E's- GGGG EEEE GGGG EEEE, meanwhile the rhythm guitar guy is playing chords, CEGx16... he's got his own tricks to keep things interesting. Meanwhile, you can play any note in the I chord, C, E, or G, or any combination of the three, anywhere you can find them on the harmonica. You generally want to make patterns so it sounds like you are doing it on purpose. C E G G C E G C C E G G C E G C (or any other pattern.) That's when you are playing the I chord. You do the same sort of thing for the IV and V chords, using those notes. When all the instruments come together you get something that sounds like music. As long as everyone knows what chord everyone is supposed to be playing, and the rhythm you can all improvise a bit. Between the I IV and V chords you get to play C D E F# G A and B, all the notes in the key of G, but because of the progression everyone knows roughly what everyone else is playing so they can sound good together.
So, when someone says they are playing a I chord they may mean they are playing all the notes in the I chord, or they may just mean they are using the notes in the I chord. When you listen for it, you'll hear many blues songs use that same progression. There is another progression of chords that is used in tons of pop songs. I could give you a more confusing explanation of dissonance and resolving, but basically, it's just a trick musicians have found to make music sound good and to let them improvise with each other.
Here is Axis of Awesome doing a comedy song where they use the pop chord progression to play a bunch of different songs one right into another. I think it's actually pretty brilliant for hearing how chord progressions work. You can hear the melodies are different, but chords underneath tie them together nicely.
What the heck does "I Chord" or "V" chord mean, anyway?
Well, I don't know how they came up with those numbers, but here's what those numbers point to:
Look at a Circle of Fifths. Here's a string of numbers: IV...I...V...ii...vi...iii...vii dm (The "dm" could be replaced with one of those little circles that also means "degrees.")
Pick that string of numbers up and place it on the Circle so that the "I" is lined up with the key of the song. Let's say the song is in D. Place the I under the D. This makes the IV line up with the G on the circle, and the V lines up with the A on the circle. So since the song is in D, the I chord is a D chord; the IV chord is a G chord; the V chord is an A chord. (The I chord is also called the "root chord.")
Nacoran said, "So, when someone says they are playing a I chord they may mean they are playing all the notes in the I chord, or they may just mean they are using the notes in the I chord." If they mean they are just using the notes in it, they could have just as well said they are playing the I scale. Those two words (scale and chord) are pretty much interchangeable IN THIS INSTANCE. (A D scale begins with a D note, so the root note in a song that's in D is D, by the way.)
Playing in second position makes you have to bend notes to in order to be able to do anything with it. That's a good thing because it's those bent notes and how you can mess with them that makes it sound good. If you play blues in first position, it would sound as exciting as Mary Had a Little Lamb.
BTW: Upper case means major, lower case means minor, dm means diminished. But don't worry about that right now.
"The spam prevention code you entered was not right."--LIAR!!! :p
Last Edited by on Jun 24, 2011 3:47 AM
Second position gives you Mixolydian mode (do-re-mi scale but with a flat 7th) without having to bend which is an extremely useful scale for playing a lot contemporary popular music. You have a complete Mixolydian mode/scale from B6 through B9. But if you want major 7th it is available at D2*.
In second position it is very easy to bend notes in the lower register in order to play the blues scale. Also, if you know which notes to start on, you can also play in the relative minor key of the second position key (which actually puts you in fifth position) so you can move between the second position key and its relative minor very easily and seamlessly.
Chords are problematic because, unlike a keyboard or guitar, you can't "build" chords on the harp. So, you are stuck with whatever chords or chord fragments you have available. So, it is often better to work with single notes that are compatible with each chord. If you include extension tones, this gives you quite a few notes to work with--the art is in how and when you use them.
Second position is useful for playing blues because it's actually pretty hard to hit a really bad note. Playing country is also easy if you stay away from the flat 7th.
Blues scale: D2/B3(same note) 3D* B4 D4* D4 D5 B6
Major pentatonic(country) scale: D2/B3 D3** D3 D4 B5 B6
Mixolydian scale/mode: B6 D6 D7 B7 D8 B8 D9 B9
Minor pentatonic scale of relative minor key: B2 D2/B3 D3** D3 D4 B5 (note that this is the same breath pattern as the country or major pentatonic scale of the second position key).
B=blow D=draw *=half step bend **=whole step bend
To approximate I IV V blues chords, play the following notes at the same time for each respective chord: I = D2 D4 D4 IV = B4 B5 B6 V = D4 D5 D6.
This should help you start to get around in second position. It is unquestionably the most widely used harmonica position.
Last Edited by on Jun 24, 2011 12:40 PM
ZSC, practically speaking, for a beginner, playing in second position means mainly sucking on those 1-4 holes, not blowing them (which is first position).
If you have C harp, you are then playing in G, not in C. To quote Adam, the 2-draw is the most important note on your harmonica. That's because it's G, the key you're playing in. Forget about myxomatosis and all that crap.
Now watch Adam's YouTube videos for beginners (he gets onto the chords after a while): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDKbqacmPyw
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Andrew. ----------------------------------------- Those who are tardy do not get fruit cup.
Yeah, absolutely. Whatever you do DON'T learn any music theory or terminology. You certainly don't want to do anything that might erode the disdain and disrespect most real musicians have for harmonica players in general. After all, if you learn any music theory, even by accident, you might get mistaken for a musician instead of a harmonica player, and that would be really terrible.
So, since the only important thing is to keep track of where G is on a C harmonica, you have G at D2, B3, B6 and B9. That should just about do it. I apologize about posting all that tab for scales and other silly stuff, like talking about notes that are available above hole 4.
You see, sometimes I get confused and start thinking that learning to play harmonica is like learning to play a musical instrument. To be honest, I've suffered from that sort of delusional thinking for years. But I'm sure glad there's sympathetic people here on MBH who take the time and trouble to straighten me out and help me get grounded in reality. After all, I need to remember that it's just a HARMONICA that you are trying to learn to play.
Last Edited by on Jun 25, 2011 6:55 AM
I have a Youtube series talking about all this stuff. This lesson just went up today, but if you use this lesson to get you to number one and then watch them all, you should have a good understanding of 2nd position.
Bluemoose, lol, you could read the Wikipedia entries of scales and chord progressions; and rhythm and measures. Quick is all relative! If you can understand the short version that will get you playing and that keeps the interest levels up.
Zsteven, definitely check out Michael's videos. They are a really good, step by step explanation.
Hvvj, all you need to do is hang around a few open mics to restore your faith in the world. There are guitar players out there who don't know any theory either.
The thing is to learn it in manageable sized bites. If you are learning a foreign language you need to learn a few key phrases first- 'Where is the bathroom?' 'Where can I get some food?' 'How much is this?' and of course, 'Officer, it's just a misunderstanding, I thought that was legal here.'
You can learn more once you master those and they'll get you through your first trip to Tijuana. They'll form the foundation for learning the other stuff later. :)
edit: By the way, I think that Axis of Awesome video might be the best learning tool I've ever run across for chord progressions. Someone ought to make at least one for some basic 12 Bar, if not for some other basic chord progressions.
edit: and the Wikipedia article on chord progressions is a little more advanced, but it's really useful when you are farther along.
In elementary school, they taught us about "A" one day and "B" the next. If during the first week they dumped the whole alphabet in our laps along with "Kn__", "___ght", "i before e except after c", I still wouldn't know nuthin'.
1. You are wrong because you are addressing a beginner with something that is irrelevant to him and his question and over-complicated to boot.
2. You are wrong because modes aren't theory. What are currently referred to by some people as modes are actually the mediaeval church organists' misunderstanding of what Ancient Greek modes were. A mode is something simpler than a scale. If you play the scale of C starting on G and ending on G, you are playing the scale of C, starting on G and ending on G, you are not playing a mode, Dorian, Aeolian, Mixolydian, Lydian or otherwise. I spent 10 years as a classical pianist and oboist and I had to play those scales - e.g. C# harmonic minor starting on the E and ending on the E, that kind of thing, on both instruments. Since the Sixties, a lot of work has been done on researching ancient Greek music and the original modes they used. If you use the word 'mode' to describe both a genuine mode and the scale of C starting on a note other than C, then you are overloading the word. I don't care if guitarists do talk about modes, they are the blind led by the blind.
3. You are wrong because what the beginner actually needs to know is what the Blues Scale is, and neither Aristotle nor Tuotilo would have been able to tell him that. Adam's videos can.
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Andrew. ----------------------------------------- Those who are tardy do not get fruit cup.
Last Edited by on Jun 26, 2011 1:35 PM
