Hey, Deak. I played thru your rig at Roosters during HCH open mic night. Your rig is by far the sweetist I have ever played thru. If you read this please tell us/me what mic element you use and what mods were done to the Bassman and who did the mods. I'm on this quest for tone and you have the mother load. I now know I can make the sound I'm looking for if I just had the right rig. I'm currently gigging with an HG2 miced to the PA. Good sound and tome but nothing like your rig produces. Mike Rector
Hey Mike, Check out page 2 on Bassmans Settings? There is a wealth of information about Bassmans and how to get various sounds/tone out of them. I let Deak borrow my Bassman 59RI unmodified for a UK tour with the Kilborn Alley Blues Band and he swapped out a couple of pre amp valves to AU's so the tube compliment was similar to his Bassman settings. He played through a jt30 with a cm in I think.
This is what Deak said on the Bassman settings thread but check it out if you missed it and save it to favourites or print it out.
"Here is what i run in my 59 RI from left to righ 5U4 RCA . 5881 Tunsol 12AX7 GE 12Au7 GE 12Au7 GE ... All tubes are NOS .. Except for the 5881 ... i can get the gain in both channels up to 6 with a pacth cord to jump the channels ..Treb on 3 Bass on 12 Mid on 3.5 Presence 3.5 ... I varry the Mid/Pres a little higher if i need to cut more ... also the Treble i might jack up to 4 sometimes ...if i want to Cut real good ....the pacth wire jumping the channels are in channel 1 high imput .. criss crossed to channel 2 in the Bright .. I plug my Mic in channel 1 Normal ..."
Deak
Mine was similar but I had 6L6 power tubes instead of 5881's
Hey Russ, thanks for the info. I printed & saved the settings you wrote. You refurred to this--"Check out page 2 on Bassmans Settings?". Where is this located? You stated Deak ran a C/M element. I wonder if it's a black lable? Now all I have to do is find a 59 Bassman59RI for sale. Mike
I found this post by Kudzurunner from last year at HCH. Any one know if he is jumping out of one amp into the other amp or mic'ing both of them with one microphone?--------- "Johnny Sansone played all his main-stage stuff through my Premier/HG2 combination, and my mic. I'm telling ya guys, small amps rule--as long as you mic 'em through the PA".
small amps rule! tell that to greg huemann. i'll tell him. hi greg, if you are in charge of the pa (as you know) you can get away w/ a small amp. but, why does greg lug around sonny booyah?
i'll answer, it all a matter of appplication. ----------
MP doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
Been tossing up wether to save for a Harp Gear or Sonny Jr - But considering that I could get a 59 RI here for around $1700 new - I think I may have just made up my mind.
With the NOS tubes - Is it me or are they really expensive?
I was checking out Eurotubes retube kits for the bassman
Yeah I've been thinking bout the HG50 mna - Just in a situation where I can buy a 59 RI for $1700 new and for an extra $100 pick up a full retube kit from euro tubes -
Pros: Cheaper - Warranty issues can be dealt with HEAPS easier.
Cons: Are there any? Would getting a HG50 be THAT much better? Probably but then wait time - shipping costs and warranty issues could be a downer.
As to whether the 59 RI would be "better" than the HG50...it really comes down to the specific amp...there's quite a bit of variation in the RIs, some are very high voltage with more output than a lot of other 4x10 Fenders. I'm not keen on the SICA Jensen P10Rs for harp, they are very scooped in the frequencies that giveyour tone the "meat"...there are a couple of tricks you can try before subbing them out.
I would not recommend the Eurotubes JJ tube kit, I like the JJ ECC83S, but JJ don't do a 12AY7/6072A which most people prefer in V1 of a reissue. The 59 RI comes with Sovtek/Reflektor 5881 power tubes, unless you are after something really esoteric (JAN Phillips 6L6WGB, GE 5881? - vastly more expensive) then these tubes will be just fine...they are what will come in the Harpgear anyway & my "go to" tube for 4x10 Fenders. The JJ 6L6 are rather hard & sterile sounding, can sound good in 2x10 and designs where you can really push the plate current, as they take a lot of punishment.
If I was buying a 59 RI, I'd buy an EH12AY7, a GE5751, a JAN Phillips 12AU7, JAN Phillips 12AT7 (possibly a JJ 12DW7/ECC832 for V3, next to power tubes, too) and a Sovtek 5U4G and play around until I hit on a useable combination with my favourite mic...none of these should break the bank. The Phillips 12AU7 and 12AT7 are usually pretty comparable to good current production prices, there are still tons of them around, NOS 5Y3 aren't expensive either. In terms of getting a useable sound, as opposed to wringing out that last few % of "holy grail" tone, the type of the tube is more relevant than who made it.
It would be a good idea to check/adjust the bias of the power tubes, try anything from 7 or 8mA per tube upwards. Lower currents will be crunchier with less feedback, higher currents (<35mA) will be smoother, brighter but with more feedback.
"small amps rule! tell that to greg huemann. i'll tell him. hi greg, if you are in charge of the pa (as you know) you can get away w/ a small amp. but, why does greg lug around sonny booyah?"
Balance. For example, in my band we don't like to mic any amp unless we are micing all the amps. Why? You have better balance in the overall sound of the band that way. But, YMMV.
Also, personally, in general I'm not wild about the sound I get from a small amp. If i use the right mic, i think i can get a wider variety of tones from a larger amp which gives me more control over my tone and over all sound.
If you're looking for a Bassman RI, check out Sligo Ams.
http://www.sligoamps.com/
I heard Big Boy Little (Chris Littlehale) playing through one of his amps at the IBC in 2009. It as awesome tone.
Dan"
i can vouch for Steve Clark at sligo. i bought one from him 3 yrs ago. mine does not have reverb since i couldn't afford any extras but it has some great speakers for low and high breakup. and it's hand built point to point! i did the swap on the 12ax7 tubes, p1 is 12ax7 and p2 and p3 are now 12au7 and the gain is less so very little feedback issue. also jumped the two channels and it overdrives great. an original bassman may sound a bit better but i think i just have to tweak my settings and hone technique. over all i have no regrets buying this amp, it was worth every penny. i've tried a lot of amps to get both tone and volume in one package and i've definitely found it in this one.
Hey Ray,I'm a friend of Billy James. He drops in a couple of days a week after the music course he's doing up at Grafton. The RI is certainly a cheaper option. I bought the HG50 when the aussie $$$ weren't as pretty as they are now.I think shipping was $335 plus customs slugged me $400 Luckily the amp was worth it for my tonal satisfaction. I also have a SJ2 amp (6x8inch speakers)I'm considering selling if Billy doesn't grab it first. Best of luck on your quest!
"small amps rule! tell that to greg heumann. i'll tell him. hi greg, if you are in charge of the pa (as you know) you can get away w/ a small amp. but, why does greg lug around sonny booyah?"
HVYJ cracks me up. And he understands.
Look, Adam likes small amps, mic'd. It works for him. I've heard him. He sounds great. But let us all remember that Adam's situation is a bit unique. He often plays ALONE or with ONE OTHER GUY. That is WAY different than playing with a five piece band, let alone a jam situation.
I have a great band - I love what we do. We know how to control our levels. Monday we played an OUTDOOR gig and I only had my Avenger's normal volume at 4, Bright on 2. But I help run a pro jam weekly and I attend another every couple of weeks where I just sit in - in either case sound levels on stage as well as out front can get out of hand. There, my amp is cranked. THAT is a fact of life many of us have to deal with. In those situations, there is no substitute for a big amp. I don't think Adam would disagree. There are limits to mic'ing an amp which have to do with the tension between hearing yourself on stage and the increased likelihood of feedback if you have to hear yourself through the house's monitors. It also puts you at the mercy of the sound guy - if there is one. And you can't tell how you sound out front.
Unless I KNOW I will have control, I bring the big guns.
NOW THEN - a Bassman RI for $1700? I don't think that's a good deal. They sold new for what, $1100? The Bassman LTD came AFTER the RI and was a better amp.= but still.... A Bassman RI has a solid state rectifier, a plywood cab, a printed circuit board, and 4 identical speakers. I don't know about the HG50 as much, but a Sonny Jr amp, for example, has a finger jointed pine cab, a mix of speakers (which definitely smooths out the sound), no printed circuit boards.... Tubes alone won't turn a Bassman RI into a dedicated harp amp. It isn't a bad amp, but it isn't as good either.
Personally, I'd rather spend that kind of money on a made-for-harp amp and not have to mess with it at all.
Greg wrote: "A Bassman RI has a solid state rectifier, a plywood cab, a printed circuit board, and 4 identical speakers. I don't know about the HG50 as much, but a Sonny Jr amp, for example, has a finger jointed pine cab, a mix of speakers (which definitely smooths out the sound), no printed circuit boards...."
I thought the RI LTD was the only 59 Bassman that you could buy new nowadays? They have a GZ34 rectifier (the SS is so easily changed for a tube it's barely worth mentioning, I even prefer the SS rectifier in a modded bassman) and a pine cab, a bias pot...sure, I'm not crazy about the speakers. The PCB does not affect the sound by more than a virtually indistuingishable amount (I'm about the only person who has done a like for like comparison, matching component values from one amp to another in an A/B test), it'll give 20yrs of service before any serious work is required.
A 59 Bassman is a great basis for an amp used for harp, as is the HG50, shipping/insurance & duty costs to Australia have a bearing here.
Greg is correct-the Fender Bassman '59 Reissue came from the factory with a solid state rectifier,and no bias pot-mine was unusable for harp when I got it on trade for a Blackface Super and some cash. I am talking about the Standard RI here,not the LTD.
The amp I used wich great success Saturday is an LTD model. The only change the owner made was putting in the tube rectifier. I had one of the older RI Bassmans years ago with the S/S, and it was like tmf says above. I sold it. Knowing what I have since learned, I could have kept it, tweaked it a bit, and made it usable. Even with all 12ax7s, the LTD worked great as a harp amp. ---------- Todd
Seems like for a 50w 4x10, the Ltd is a better deal...BUT:
Cost of retube - $30-$100 Cost of better speakers - $100-$600 Cost of adjusting the bias or other preliminary harp friendly mods from a solid tech - $30-100
If you look at the ACTUAL cost of ownership, the HG50 is at least equal to a harp friendly Ltd as it already has the harp friendly pieces. Personally, I had the choice of going with a used HG50 or Ltd and I chose the HG50 with no regrets whatsoever.
Look at "small" amps the same way...
VHT Special 6 - $200 (is that what they are now?) Tubes - $30-50 Speaker - $40-150 Harp Mods - $30-50 Mic for PA - $50-350 Amp stand - $5-50
Granted, I got my VHT for a mint and had extra tubes, speakers, and mics, but I still had to pay a tech to get it to spec for harp. I could have just as easily gotten a HG Rockbottom or the like for similar coin.
I don't buy the small amp always works notion and I've tried it for years hoping against hope it would work. ---------- Mike Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Personally, I prefer the original 59 reissue to the LTD. I've owned an LTD and played through a lot of non-LTD reissues. The LTD that I owned I bought used for less than $800. It looked brand new.
I didn't care much for the reissue Jensen speakers in the LTD. It seemed to bright and harsh to me. I didn't own the LTD long enough to see if the speakers broke in. I had a guy that wanted it and had a pile of cash in hand, so I sold it to him.
I would buy another one, if the price was right. They are great amps.
My advice to people who are amp shopping is simple:
1. Don't be in a rush to buy anything. If you need to save money to buy your "dream amp", save the money. You'll be happier in the long run. 2. Play lots of amps. Talk to guitar players. They tend to collect equipment. If they are nice enough, they will let you try their gear. 3. Don't ever buy a new reissue. Always buy them used. In big cities, used reissue Fender amps will usually litter craigslist. If there aren't any, keep checking. They always show up. 4. Preferably, buy from a friend. Friends won't typically screw you by passing along a bad piece of gear. 5. When you find an amp you like, lay down the cash and buy it.
That's frighteningly cheap, it's an assembled Weber kit, filter cap mounting is just horrid...look inside a Clark or a Victoria and it becomes obvious why they cost 2-3 times as much. I'd go for the RI, unless I had a spare $1000 that I was happy to take a punt on.
I agree with Greg's take on all this. He's absolutely right: my playing situation--longtime part of an amplified duo, now a solo act--has conditioned my views. But were I playing with a band these days, I'd still bring a pair of amps: a larger amp for stage volume down below, a small amp for mike-able tone at any room volume up top. Truth is, my Shure PE-5 mic doesn't drive most large amps hard enough to get the tone I like, especially when I move towards the high end of the harp.
Please note that Sugar Blue uses a Mesa Boogie or the equivalent: One 12" in a small cabinet. His band is louder than 98% of blues bands I've heard, and I've heard a lot.
I'm using a Premier Twin-8 and a Kay 703 in the following clip, and they're both miked through the PA. This is exactly the sound I've been trying for. But yes: if I were playing with a band, I'd need more. I'd start off with a side-by-side pair HG-2s and see if that got me enough stage volume...
1. That Mesa is loud. I had one near identical that was switchable between 60w and 100w of LOUD.
2. You'd probably be ok so long as you had solid monitoring. My VHT is way loud for 6w, and my friend plays guitar in a band that routinely plays to crowds of 300-1,000 and all he uses is a 1x12 Victoria Champ for EVERYTHING. They get pretty loud and he just uses monitors. You'd lose some of the benefit of two amps on a loud stage quickly. Meaning if you aren't miking and mixing them both FOH and to the monitors, you lose the mix of tone. Since they don't really cut, you run into whether or not it is worth the setup - assuming you rely mostly on monitors.
I think where you lose it most is with regards to headroom (What if you need to get louder on stage?) and bass response. Meaning, there are lots of ways to be loud enough on stage, but the harp player doesn't always have control and you can't replicate the thump of a big amp either.
I firmly believe that the smaller the amp the better the FOH sound can be. I mean better as in louder, more cut, bassier, bigger, badder, etc.
The only advantage of a large amp in ensemble playing is the ability to get the band to hear you without monitors...and if it gives you better tone at reasonable volumes (you want a cleaner or bassier sound).
I am not a tone monster. I probably don't even aim for what most on this board do either. However, my last set of gigs was the ideal. The FOH mix sounded exactly like my amp...no coloring at all (no excuses for my lack of awesomeness either). And every note was up front in the mix and perfect. Had I had my large amp, no way I would have had that FOH sound as the amp would have been too loud to mix without phase issues or hot spots, etc. ---------- Mike Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
It's a fair price, considering the price of the kit to start with...I wouldn't go so far as to call it "a deal" (the other 5F6As on the market cost more because the parts that go into them cost more), pretty well market rate for assembling the kit as it comes. No one's being ripped off. My comments are based on the pics supplied on the e-bay auction quoted, which appears to be the basic Weber kit, built to the schematic. I've seen just about every kind of bassman out there & I'll stand by my earlier comments...it's just the same as I would tell a client/personal acquaintance if they asked me.
Steve at SLIGO says the amp comes with Weber transformers and your choice of Electro-Harmonix or JJ tubes. Mallory caps and weber filters come stock,as well as Carling switches and Switchcraft jacks.
Last Edited by on Jun 01, 2011 1:42 PM
Ebay .. what Ox said the other tube i use is a 5AR4 for a rectifire tube ... i forgot to add that ... its a Blacky 1949 CR ... and i just orderd the Greg Human wireless that Jason uses .. for my new Greg Human wood cocobo killer mic with DH in it Im now a endorsee for Blows Me Away Mic's .... And making harps for all the Pro's ... And not so pro's ... ---------- Have Harp Will Travel
