Rick Davis
473 posts
Apr 18, 2011
11:20 AM
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In my consulting company one of our biggest lines of business is public opinion polling. I plan to conduct a poll of harmonica players regarding the amplifier they use most frequently in a variety of settings. To participate please reply to bluesharpamps@gmail.com with the answers to the questions below. Responses that are posted to this blog cannot be included in the poll.
Your responses and email addresses will be kept strictly confidential and never used by anyone to contact you. The ONLY exception is if we need clarification for any of your poll responses. When the poll is finished I will publish the aggregate results only. The poll will close on June 1, 2011.
These questions apply to amplifiers you OWN. I know most harp players own multiple amps but please pick the one that most applies to each question.
Thank you very much for being a part of this poll. The questions begin here:
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-What amplifier do you use most frequently in a performance setting, either Jam or Gig?
-What amplifier do you use most frequently for recording?
-What amplifier do you use most frequently for practice?
-How many amplifiers do you own that you use for harmonica?
-Thinking of the amplifier you named in Question 1, did you buy it new or used?
-Do you earn more than 25% of your income directly from playing harmonica?
OPTIONAL:
-What is your age?
-What is your gender?
-In what state do you live?
========================================
THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
Last Edited by on Apr 18, 2011 11:21 AM
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Pluto
141 posts
Apr 18, 2011
12:55 PM
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Rick,
On your blog, you wrote a page on how Sonny's new Cruncher sounds "nasally", "shrill" and "annoying". You go on to say the Mission amp has BETTER tone than the Cruncher.
As I mentioned to you in my rebuttal, I own a Mission and a Cruncher. I enjoy both amps for different reasons. And once again we arrive at this destination where posters feel compelled to say their interpretation of tone is the correct interpretation of tone.
In my opinion, you have an axe to grind with Sonny Jr, and you get kick backs from Bruce at Mission.
Taking a poll serves no one other than you.
Last Edited by on Apr 18, 2011 12:56 PM
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Barry C.
238 posts
Apr 19, 2011
9:12 AM
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not to be the third man in the ring - but - everyone who reviews any product is going to have their own take on it - it's subjective for sure - take it ALL with a grain - but I for one really like Rick's blog/reviews find them very helpful and most often spot-on w/ my own taste (including his review of the cruncher, meteor, and many other amps i've tried or own).
however if i don't agree with a review - i don't then jump to the conclusion; oh oh kick-back alert!
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~Banned in Boston!
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Kingley
1495 posts
Apr 19, 2011
11:08 AM
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"And once again we arrive at this destination where posters feel compelled to say their interpretation of tone is the correct interpretation of tone."
Pluto - With all respect I think you have this a little wrong. If you look at the questions that Rick has asked they only refer to what kind of amp you use. It's hardly anti-Sonny Jr amps or a debate on tone.
If nothing else it would be a good yardstick to find out which are the most popular amps for harmonica.
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Pluto
142 posts
Apr 19, 2011
12:17 PM
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Kingly,
with all due respect, I'd suggest you read Ricks latest "critique" of the Cruncher. If that isn't enough, I'd suggest scrolling back and reading other amp reviews.
And it "might" be a good yardstick, if all responses were published. Experience teaches me otherwise.
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Kingley
1496 posts
Apr 19, 2011
12:33 PM
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I don't mean to sound offensive, but the poll is just the poll nothing else (as far as it relates to this forum).
Ricks critique of the Cruncher isn't posted on this forum is it? The poll in question doesn't mention the Cruncher or indeed any other amp does it? I presume that the review your referring to is on Ricks blog?
"And it "might" be a good yardstick, if all responses were published"
I have no experience of Rick's polls so am unable to comment on them. It would however seem silly to not publish the results for public viewing.
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HarpNinja
1351 posts
Apr 19, 2011
12:40 PM
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In all likelihood this will be flawed from the start. I mean, I understand the intent whether it be a mere social experiment or a loaded conversation.
Reasons it will be flawed - I participated anyways just out of curiosity and to see if my own theories are at all in the ball park - include:
1. Not a random sampling. You have to want to participate and most people who will come across this either are familiar with the site or Rick's opinions. Chances are a good number of them will be in agreement with Rick's opinion toward amps and that will be reflected in the survey.
Also, I doubt too many pros will participate. Meaning I bet most who reply fall in a very similar demographic in terms of how/why they make music. I can think of more ways this isn't a random sampling but won't bore you.
2. Too small of a sampling size. Even if 100 people respond, there are thousands just on this site and I doubt there will be high enough numbers to support a valid trend.
3. Spin. I don't think anyone would have any reason to do this and not find a way to interpret the data to prove a hidden motive. I do this at work all the time as I am supposed to. I think that is a part of Rick's day job too.
4. Too many variables. There are just so many options for amped playing that I think the best use of this information is market research for someone trying to develop a product for a niche. However, it doesn't address genre or satisfaction with a product.
For example, if you are a jazz player who is broke, you may have/want two different things. What I am trying to say is I am not sure what this data will be used for nor how useful it will be for making generalizations.
That all being said, I am approaching this as something fun, not meaning to be scientifically valid, etc. Kudos to Rick for trying this out. The information will be interesting, although I am not sure what the use of it will be beyond creating an understanding around who checks in with his site. I know I do all the time, but...
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Last Edited by on Apr 19, 2011 12:42 PM
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Greg Heumann
1110 posts
Apr 19, 2011
8:01 PM
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Rick - suggest you at least use a site like "zoomerang.com" which does surveys for you and tallies the data. It is a lot more scientific than collecting emails from people which forces you to interpret every one through your own prejudices - which everyone has.
And I agree with HarpNinja about what you're likely to get (and not get) in terms of results.
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/Greg
Last Edited by on Apr 19, 2011 8:03 PM
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kudzurunner
2453 posts
Apr 20, 2011
4:56 AM
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Yesterday morning, after reading Rick's OP and Pluto's yelps, I composed a multi-paragraph post in which I rushed to Rick's defense in much the way that Kingley does. The questions, as posed in the OP, are entirely unobjectionable.
Then, just after posting, I visited Rick's blog, saw that his most recent post was this same invitation to participate in a survey, and saw that his next most recent post, made only a few days ago, was another hatchet job on the Sonny Jr. Cruncher.
I deleted my post. I have no official comment on the matter, except to say that Rick's OP, above, is well within the guidelines of the forum creed.
@Pluto: To accuse a fellow forum member of taking kickbacks from an amp manufacturer is arguably fighting language--i.e., openly disrespectful--and therefore arguably in violation of the forum creed. No matter how fervently you believe your claim here, please tone down your language. Thanks.
Last Edited by on Apr 20, 2011 4:57 AM
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Pluto
143 posts
Apr 20, 2011
6:52 AM
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I own a Cruncher, Mission Chicago and a Mini15".
If I could ever figure out my Tascam recorder, and if I could get some help loading the samples into this forum, I believe it could provide the most objective comparison between at least these three amplifiers.
To Adam, I apologize for putting you on the spot.
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6SN7
164 posts
Apr 20, 2011
6:53 AM
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I figure Rick would pop up here again after his flame throwing last year regarding OB vs. TB and his obvious selling posts about the Mission Amp. His posts crossed the line and he was busting Gary and spreading bad info and trying to ruin his business. Has he done those same tactics to other amp companies? No.
As much as he says he is cool w/ Gary and friends and respects him, the fact is he does not. Rick's beefs with him go back a long ways and if you go through back pages of his blog, the evidence is all there. As for Bruce @ Mission, he has played drums with Rick and has a relationship with him, I wouldn't say that kickbacks are going on. But clearly the two of them collaborated on building a 1000$ amp, along with others (so rick says) and Bruce built it. Rick has done the marketing of this amp, that is, all the stuff online comes from him, not Bruce. Bruce has said in forums a long time ago that the Sonny Jr amps were nothing great, but that was many years ago and a few models back. Bruce seems like a good knowledgeable guy with a good reputation. I wish he did his own marketing and sold the amp on its merits.
Rick's marketing has always compared it to the Cruncher and never others, probably because he has a friendly relationship with those builders and not Gary. I have no problem with one's views, but I have a reservations about Rick's intentions, at the least, he is bias.
I will not do the poll because I don't have faith in the group doing it. What is the name of this consulting company? Do they do marketing surveys or opinion polls for politicians? Is it the RD, inc? And the questions are not focus enough for a decent poll, 6 questions, be serious. Is this just more shit stirring to get Mission out there in the public's eye?
Why is it this forum continues to let this guy do his spread his crap? Okay, he is not violating forum rules but what is he bringing to the table? Go find his old posts here from last year and read them again. They are the pits. And they were probably deleted by the moderator.
Last Edited by on Apr 21, 2011 5:26 AM
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tmf714
602 posts
Apr 20, 2011
7:11 AM
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Thank you 6SN7-my sentiments exactly.
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toddlgreene
2913 posts
Apr 20, 2011
7:46 AM
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This moderator didn't delete anything, I can tell you that. I've seen those threads in question recently, and they're still intact. If he or anyone else blatantly breaks the creed, we'll deal with it. But that hasn't happened here-yet. What IS happening is that the obvious bad blood is resurfacing-the same bad blood that went away coincidentally at the precise time when Rick Davis stopped posting here.
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Todd
Eudora and Deep Soul
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5F6H
638 posts
Apr 20, 2011
7:50 AM
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If this is market research/opinion polling then it is not typical for respondents to receive sales/marketing material by return, nor for them to be recontacted on this subject without giving prior consent.
I don't see anything out of line with the Q's with regards to an opinion poll...I do have reservations as to how the results will be interpreted...will the results be split by brand & model, or by broad type (e.g. 1x Mojo Tweed Champ, 1x Fender Tweed Champ, 1x TAD Tweed Champ, or would that be 3x5F1?)
In terms of arranging proper opinion polling/market research...well that would eat up several years worth of profit for any harp specific (or even any small scale guitar amp...) builder, given the relatively small penetration of the population at large.
Most amps, even those offered by the big, mass market companies, are usually the vision of one designer/small team/endorsed artist, tempered by what the acountants will allow. "Market research" doesn't seem to figure much unless it's a euphemism for remedying serious QC issues like reducing objectionable hum or stopping things from going up in smoke under warranty! "You said you wanted less smoke & flames & we listened...presenting the NEW, IMPROVED...." ;-) The typical small scale built harp friendly amps are built to a much better standard than such examples.
Last Edited by on Apr 20, 2011 12:02 PM
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6SN7
165 posts
Apr 20, 2011
10:33 AM
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@5F6H
You should check out Rick's website. It is pretty good. I have been following it for a number of years and there is some good stuff and excellent links. There is some other stuff that is non-harp related like endorsements, travel weight of on board airline luggage, tubes, etc. seriously, check it out , it has some good links and good ideas. At one point rick was running a post on upgrading VHT amps for harp playing. Interesting stuff. One thing I don't like is that he doesn't post rebuttal posts, if you don't agree with rick, you don't get posted. He is not a open forum like here. Rick has also done similar pieces on weber speakers.
Bruce and Mission are straight up and I don't think there is any beef w/ Sonny Jr Amps. I cannot stress this enough!!!!! Both these guys are pros and make great amps. 5 stars to them for supplying the community.
It is a Rick vs Gary thing. And while you think this fact is not helpful and it is "perceived" on my part, the fact is , it is a real. Read his blog, all of it, as I have , and then come back and refute me. Frankly, I wish it would all go away, but Rick keeps it going. I don't see Gary responding in kind to Rick at all, very straight up on Gary's part and shows a lot of integrity. I'll let Gary's accomplishments speak for them self.
I take Adam's last post as the gospel (sorry for the religious reference!) and this is my last post on this particular thread, even if I am flamed. Those that wish, contact me off line, but I am out of this one.
Last Edited by on Apr 20, 2011 10:53 AM
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5F6H
639 posts
Apr 20, 2011
11:24 AM
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The Rick vs Gary thing is only as real as we let it be, the more we all refer to it the more real it gets. You can' hear the sound of one hand clapping.
Last Edited by on Apr 20, 2011 1:31 PM
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Matzen
174 posts
Apr 20, 2011
11:48 AM
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I would only question the bias thing if the poll is published [and if Mission comes out on top or is made to look better for marketing purposes ;) ]. If it's used privately for R&D, I don't see any problem. What will the poll be used for?
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Pluto
144 posts
Apr 20, 2011
12:28 PM
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I thought I was done with this.
5f6h, I believe much of what you say is directed toward me. I responded to this "poll" because there are people who may make major purchase decisions based on what the reported results will be. It was meant as a warning.
If you actually read what I posted you would see I own several amplifiers, including the one so highly touted by the polls author. I am only biased towards the truth and objectivity.
Some one else my remove my posts, but I won't.
One last thing. I don't think there is anything to prohibit members from having more than one "nic" in this forum.
I'm done now.
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nacoran
4029 posts
Apr 20, 2011
12:35 PM
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6SN7, for the record almost no comments are removed. I've deleted spam and locked threads and even asked people to remove their own comments if they are in violation of the forum creed, but I don't think I've ever removed a actual 'comment' comment. The order goes something like this
1. Warning (possibly with a request that people self edit)
2. Locking the thread
3. Banning
We may add a disclaimer post but unless you are using hate speech or something, or spamming or making threats we don't delete. I've even left some bone headed remarks that I've made stand because I don't like editing the context other people's remarks were made in. I may add a note correcting the information but other than fixing a typo I even note on my own posts what I've edited.
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Nate
Facebook
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tmf714
603 posts
Apr 20, 2011
12:58 PM
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It's more than the Cruncher with Rick-it even spread to harp-l-and it is real. It's been going on for quite some time. Look up any post by Sonny on harp-l,and you will see a post,be it negative or not,by Rick.
He's a thorn in Sonny's side-a pompus,arrogant,self-serving ass.
By the way-I have no affiliation with Gary-I am a proud owner of one of Rod Piazza's personal HarpKing amps. Thats the only amp I use for small,medium and large venues.
Last Edited by on Apr 20, 2011 1:00 PM
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5F6H
641 posts
Apr 20, 2011
1:08 PM
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I don't see how anything positive can be gained by repeatedly digging up old arguments & animosities. It's a little tiresome for those of us who would like some useful content.
Last Edited by on Apr 20, 2011 1:30 PM
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toddlgreene
2915 posts
Apr 20, 2011
1:10 PM
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Tell ya what-five folks request a thread lock, and consider it done. This one is already kindling waiting for a spark. Scratch that-the spark was the OP, whether arson or not. But, instead of stomping or pissing on it, we've chosen to fuel it and fan it.
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Todd
Eudora and Deep Soul
Last Edited by on Apr 20, 2011 1:14 PM
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6SN7
166 posts
Apr 20, 2011
3:14 PM
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@toddgreene- Adam has already said Rick had not violated blog rules.
I would not shut the post down. Let the chips fall where they will.
Last Edited by on Apr 21, 2011 5:34 AM
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NiteCrawler .
127 posts
Apr 20, 2011
4:47 PM
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I personally don,t have the time for the poll with no offense intended,my time is limited.Although I own a Meteor,A Kinder mod 65 Bassman,a Kinder mod Vt 40,a 74 Princeton 12, a 59 Martin,a Kalamazoo and a number of other smaller amps which are good for harp depending on the situation,Anyway with all that said pertaining to the Cruncher ,Avenger or any other S.Jr Amps,I,ve never played through one,nor the Mission but did speak to Charlie M. when he passed through N.J. a couple of months ago and he spoke very, very highly of the last two latest S.Jr.amps,I talkin he was raving about them,and quoted "These are the best sounding amps that I ever have played through" So I guess the point being that if a seasoned well respected harp man like himself makes those statements then they must have something really good going on with them.Actually if you check out the owners,endorsers that play them night after night(a few names we might recognise)then I,d have to think that its all about the competion with the naysayers.If the tax man just didn,t bang me for $10 K I would have definitly would have that Cruncher that was just on the buy and sell sitting in my rehearsal studio.G.Darn axeman!As far as the post,I really don,t see a need for locking the thread,as said in the past If you don,t like the post,Don,t read it.Bottom Line
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528hemi
205 posts
Apr 20, 2011
5:02 PM
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Ronnie Shellist played the Mission as I recall and
ended up getting a Sonny Junior Super Cruncher and loves it. I am sure he could have bought a mission.
The 2 amps sound different. Some players like
Red, some like Orange....
Everyone is entitled to thier opinion. Listen to the 2 amps and pick which one sounds best to you and your style of playing. If you just listen to 1 persons viewpoint and not do your homework you are doing yourself an injustice.
The Mic also has alot to do with the tone as well as the player...
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kudzurunner
2455 posts
Apr 20, 2011
5:02 PM
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Excellent call, Todd. You have my full support. The lock would obviously NOT have anything to do with Rick's original post, which is--I'll repeat--unobjectionable, but with what has subsequently developed.
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Joe_L
1212 posts
Apr 20, 2011
5:48 PM
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I've been acquainted with Rick for a number of years now. He's a pretty passionate guy with strong opinions. Sometimes, that personality trait offends people. I don't always agree with Rick's opinions.
I responded to Rick's blog post on the Cruncher. I didn't agree with him. He posted the entry. Basically, he has his opinions and I have mine.
I used to travel to Colorado quite often for one of my previous employers. I had the chance to meet a variety of players there, but never had the chance to meet Rick. We were supposed to meet up and hit a couple of jams, but he had a change in plans and couldn't make it.
He seems like a decent guy that does some good stuff for the local Blues scene on the Denver / Boulder area.
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The Blues Photo Gallery
Last Edited by on Apr 20, 2011 5:50 PM
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Miles Dewar
866 posts
Apr 20, 2011
6:04 PM
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@NiteCrawler,
I love your first sentence.... And the 5,000 characters that follow it. ;)
I don't know if it was meant to be slightly comedic...... but it was.
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ZackPomerleau
1395 posts
Apr 20, 2011
8:21 PM
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I've heard clips of the Cruncher I hate, but I must prefer the sound of the Avenger personally. The clips used to do comparison weren't good at all. The Sonny Jr. had definition, the other one did not.
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boris_plotnikov
515 posts
Apr 20, 2011
8:38 PM
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I answered the poll. But I know that I'm using not the best amp, as I'm in Russia, Sonny JR. and Harpgear are not available here (actually they are available, but noticeably overpriced because of expensive delivery and customs house taxes).
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Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
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nacoran
4035 posts
Apr 20, 2011
8:46 PM
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Okay, I got my nerfherding net out and fresh spurs. The next one of you varmints that sticks your head out the hole is gonna get a high F# played long and loud until you drool like a weasel with rabies and if that doesn't fix the problem I'm gonna take some aspirin and call it a night to remember with a chance of rain and hope the absurdity of it all answers the question that you meant to ask when you asked if it would be okay in the fist place.
Clearly I've taken leave of my senses and I'm armed with a handful of harmonicas and bad intentions. One, two, three, four, I declare a thumb war.
And that's how you know I mean business.
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Nate
Facebook
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KlunkerBill
1 post
Apr 20, 2011
8:58 PM
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First time poster here and curious about amps. Anyone ever try a Gibson GA1 R/T? They're little tweeds from '61/'62? 8 watts, I think. I heard they were great little amps for harps, but I've only used it for guitar. Somewhere between a Champ and Princeton. I've got one that's just been gone through and was thinking about putting it up on Evilbay. Anyone tried one out?
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Blind Leroy
7 posts
Apr 21, 2011
1:30 PM
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Not that it really matters ~ Because I can't afford a high dollar harp amp, but if I could - just from hearing the online samples, the Mission would be my choice. My budget is more along the line of the VHT Special 6 combo, and maybe do a few tube subs, and investigate installing a balanced line out. That seems to be my best choice currently.
About 10 yrs ago, I had a Crate VC508 which was a great harp amp as best I can recall.
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Greg Heumann
1111 posts
Apr 21, 2011
11:23 PM
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Let me say this. You can't tell shit from a video on the web. You just can't. You can't tell whether the amp was bedroom loud or stadium loud. I could post two videos taken of me playing the SAME amp through the SAME mic in the SAME venue, taken by different people using different cameras standing in different locations on different nights - guess what - they sound completely different.
I'll repeat - you can't tell shit from a video on the web. You HAVE to hear an amp in person to form a valid opinion, or take the word of someone you trust. This goes for ANYTHING - harps, mics, amps. The ONLY thing you can really judge is the player.
One exception - two amps, one next to the other, same room, same player, same (or no) pedals, same camera, same location. Now you may be able to sense some difference in character between the amps. But you still won't really know how either sounds.
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/Greg
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rharley5652
470 posts
Apr 21, 2011
11:51 PM
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Re mortgage the house!!
Just buy this amp an be done with this poll ,.you'll have the best amp ever,.
or you'll have to tell yourself it every day!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320683265992&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dp4712.m570.l1313%26_nkw%3D320683265992%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1
Edit:
an You get the Original footswitch included. LOL
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Simply Unique Kustom Mic's By Rharley
Last Edited by on Apr 21, 2011 11:54 PM
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6SN7
167 posts
Apr 22, 2011
5:37 AM
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well, so much for me away from this thread.....
@ Greg- said " YOU CAN'T TELL SHIT FROM A VIDEO ON THE WEB."
Truer words have never been spoken. This subject should be it's own thread. I remember telling the moderator at a site I couldn't tell the the tone difference between two amps that had a tube swap. He thought I was deaf or just bias. I honestly couldn't hear the difference, even if it was there.
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Barry C.
240 posts
Apr 22, 2011
7:16 AM
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@ Greg - so agree! plus it's always some great player in the vids who would probably sound good thru a milk cartoon - doesn't translate at all to us intermediate types.
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~Banned in Boston!
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