nicewrk
21 posts
Apr 10, 2011
3:41 AM
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Hey all,
Played out last night first time in a while and
again blew out the 5 draw on my suzuki. What do ya think ?
I seem to do this with these harps. Thrice in a live situation. I wonder if it is technique or thin harp reeds?
I like the way the bluesmaster plays but i have bluesharps and MB that i've had since i was a babychild ($4.00) that i just cant kill. What do you think. Also just listened to adams complete album and i have a whole new respect for the man .....nice
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tookatooka
2276 posts
Apr 10, 2011
7:14 AM
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Just got my BluesMasters out after playing SP20's for the past year and I found I definately needed a lot less breathforce to play it. I used Suzukis when I first started playing and found I went through them fairly quickly (6-8 weeks?) but I think it was due to the fact I was learning to bend and overblow and I feel I was miss-treating them at that stage.
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gmacleod15
124 posts
Apr 10, 2011
9:23 AM
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I have been using mostly Suzuki Bluesmasters for at least the past 3 years. I mostly play at home....probably 4 to 6 hrs/wk. I have only blown out two harps and that was on the 4 draw and I haven't had an issue in at least a year.
They have lasted me better than other brands, but I also think I am easier on them as I gain experience.
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MBH member since 2009-03-24
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nacoran
3993 posts
Apr 10, 2011
10:21 AM
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It's probably your technique. Where is BBQ when you need him!
(Warning, the following is speculation and little snippets of what I've heard, possibly out of context, or misunderstood.)
A couple things to think about with the mechanics of harps- it's probably not the thickness of the reeds, or at least the way you are thinking. Metal fatigue occurs based on the range of motion a reed goes through, and I suspect a thicker reed actually may mean a longer swing for at least some of the material on the reed. Of course there are other benefits to a thicker reed, like more stability, and the ability to store more energy. (A heavy reed should sound longer after you stop blowing, since the friction of the air will affect it less.)
Back to some more grounded theory... Suzukis are known for really tight tolerances. This means that there is less space for air to slip around the reeds without adding that energy to the reed. On a leaky harp, when you blow to harp a lot of that extra energy goes around the reeds and you don't blow out the harp. On tighter harps blowing hard can blow things out. The upside is, it's all about getting the harp reed to swing. The two parts of the reed ring you have to worry about are the frequency (how quickly it completes one cycle) and the amplitude (how far it goes in each cycle). The amplitude going to determine how loud the harp is (along with things like how open the backs are). On a tight tolerance harp you can blow lighter and more energy will go into the harp, increasing it's amplitude more quickly, so you can play just as loud with less force.
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tookatooka
2277 posts
Apr 10, 2011
10:31 AM
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Thanks Nacoran. I won the MBH buzzword bingo. I had a full line with fatigue, stability, friction, tolerance, frequency, amplitude, energy and cycle :o) Not a bad science lesson for a single post.
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Last Edited by on Apr 10, 2011 10:32 AM
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bonedog569
311 posts
Apr 10, 2011
10:36 AM
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I love the harps and have not had a problem with blowing them out - any more than on any other harp anyway. I did have problems with 'souls voice' harps in this regard - but not bluesmasters.
My problem with them now that I am overblowing - is that they squeal like stuck pigs when I ob on them. I've been trying manjis hammonds firebreaths , customized marine bands and 1847s. As an out of the box harp I still really like the bm's If someone could fix the ob issue at reasonable cost I would love to go back to them
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Todd Parrott
451 posts
Apr 10, 2011
11:57 AM
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@bonedog569 - I know what you mean. I can't understand the logic behind why Suzuki makes ANY harps with the shorter reed profiles, which are prone to squeal. Why not make all harps with the Manji or Firebreath reed profiles?
The same is true about Lee Oskar/Tombo harps. Why?
I know Lee Oskars last forever, so maybe the reed profile has something to do with that, but I don't notice the same long life on the Suzukis.
Yes, I know that you can put Firebreath or Manji reed plates into a Hammond, etc., but why can't they just make the Hammonds, Bluesmasters, Harpmasters, etc. with the right reed profiles to begin with? With overblows and overdraws becoming more common, the harp manufacturers need to accommodate the needs of the players.
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chromaticblues
773 posts
Apr 10, 2011
4:11 PM
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@ Todd I think LO's last so long due to the quality of the brass they use.
I agree about the short slot harps.
I have a good question. Why did hohner change thier profile on all harps above C? A LO D harp has the same size reeds as a hohner D. A modified LO harp in the key Db and higher overblows/overdraws just as well as a modified Hohner! The thing that is a real bad idea about LO harps is the reeds are farther away from the mouthpiece. I've seen a few asian harps that do that.
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Reverblow
41 posts
Apr 10, 2011
5:15 PM
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"Todd, Chromaticblues"
Am I to assume that Delta Frosts also have the same shorter reed slots as the Suzuki Hammonds, Bluesmasters? Hmm. As a probable future over blower, I'm now unsure as to what model to concentrate on. Is it impossible to customize Suzuki's to be over blow friendly? Thanks in advance.
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Todd Parrott
454 posts
Apr 10, 2011
5:41 PM
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@chromaticblues - Pretty cool info. I never thought Lee Oskars made good overblow harps.
@Reverblow - Not sure if I'm the best one to answer your question. May be best to have one of the customizers like chromaticblues chime in. I'm more of a player than anything else.
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bonedog569
314 posts
Apr 10, 2011
5:50 PM
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@Todd. The funny thing is - while I appreciate the quality and the better ob's of the Firebreath and Hammond - I actually prefer the sound and responsiveness of the BM's out of the box - and they are less expensive. The point is that I guess there are trade-offs - and I'm glad there are options. I just want to eat my cake and have it too.
I'll be getting a new Sydel session steel with a a light massage from Dave @ elk river. I like the 1847s I've tried so I'm hoping this will be 'the ticket' - a lot pricier ticket than a bluesmaster though.
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chromaticblues
775 posts
Apr 11, 2011
8:54 AM
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@ Reverblow Yes Delta Frost do have the short slots.
What I noticed with LO's is after modifying and tuning them boththe same way. The D harp plays much like a Hohner D. Now C and below is quit a different story. Most people that overblow well use Hohner or some version of a long slot harp. Because of that your muscle memory is programmed a certain way. If you played only LO modified harps it would take no time at all to play overblows/overdraws. The main thing is you can't compare it to a hohner. It doesn't work the same way. I actually found the 6 OB and the 7 OD eiser on the LO D harp! There was one little trick that I don't do on Hohner harps that worked well on the LO. I embossed the end of the slot in and tip scooped it at the same time. I don't normally like the effect that has on harps, but why? I don't know it really works well on LO's when done right. It is effective when the slots have been fully embossed (which adds volume) then this certain method of tip scooping makes the reed mroe responsive, but decreases volume slightly.
So all in all the volume isn't any different than a stock LO, but the playability is unmatched by any harp in the key D or higher!
Now with LO's you also have the coverplates that I don't like and the comb that I don't like, but that isn't that big a deal really with all the people making custom combs today and the Hohner MS harp coverplates will fit with a little work on the bolt holes. It is very doable to make very good LO harps.
I know it sounds crazy.
Ofcourse I ruined a number of harps before I figured that out!
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