RustyGears
1 post
Apr 04, 2011
7:32 PM
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Hi everyone, I picked up the harmonica recently, and I have two questions that have been on my mind lately.
First, what is a good harmonica for reed modifying and other customizations. I essentially want to do two modifications. One is to alter the tuning from standard to diminished. The second is to valve a diatonic. I'm thinking that Lee Oscar harmonicas are good for this because I was looking at reed plate replacements and they seemed to be the cheapest. I was hoping to buy one more harmonica and a few reeds. That way I can switch out the reeds rather than buying a bunch of harmonicas.
The second question is: What path is the best to take for achieving chromaticism? I've been doing research on diatonic harmonica chromaticism, and the three main roads seem to be bends and overblows, valved bends, and draw bends on the diminished tuning. I ask because, as strange as this may seem coming from a beginner, I'm not really interested in playing the harmonica as a blues or rock instrument. I want to play chromatically, and my main interests are jazz (which may include some blues or rock style playing) and classical.
I realize that I asked these questions in a manner that suggest they have a definitive answer when they really are a matter of opinion, so I guess you can say I'm just looking for some opinions from more experiences players.
Thanks in advance.
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OzarkRich
431 posts
Apr 04, 2011
7:50 PM
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Welcome to the forum!
Even if you don't plan to play blues or rock, I'd recommend sticking with standard tuning until you've mastered the basics for at least four reasons:
1. Most lessons are based on standard tuning.
2. You're probably going to blow out a few harps at the beginning.
3. You really need to see what standard tuning is capable of. You might be surprised.
4. The better player you are, the better you'll be at customizing.
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Last Edited by on Apr 04, 2011 7:52 PM
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nacoran
3957 posts
Apr 04, 2011
8:05 PM
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I'd say the first path is multiple harps! L.O.'s don't seem to be real popular with customizers. I guess they don't overblow really well. From what I've seen on the forum Marine Bands and Golden Melodies seem to be the favorites for customizing. It's good to practice on something cheap until you get the hang of it. I have a few Blues Bands I've tuned up!
If you are going to be playing a lot of jazz and classical, is there a particular reason you aren't going with a chromatic harp?
Another option is stacking harps. I have a set of Huang Mussette harps, C/C# which are designed to be played together. They are tremolos. They are a little trickier to bend than 'regular' harps. Of course you can take any two harps on opposite sides of the Circle of Fifths and stack them; I haven't spent the time getting good at it though. I think the stacked style is more common in Asia.
There are those pinwheel 6 harp sets too. You only need to play first and second position to get chromaticism that way.
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jonlaing
216 posts
Apr 04, 2011
8:36 PM
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So wait, I'd not heard of the third method for chromaticism. A diminished tuning has all 36 notes without OB's? News to me, but I'm intrigued.
Personally I've been sticking with overbends, because it takes the least customizing knowledge to achieve IMO. I'm interested in valving, though. I saw Brendan Power playing a couple valved harps, and I was really impressed with the sound. I might give them a shot when I have a little extra scratch.
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RustyGears
2 posts
Apr 04, 2011
9:14 PM
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@nacoran:
To be honest with you the main three reasons I like the diatonic are the size, the expressiveness, and the simplicity (of the design). I've actually played a chromatic before, and, long story short, I've been on a long circular musical journey that ended up right back at the beginning (the harmonica). Right now I play the guitar, and I'm just adding the harmonica to my toolbox because I would like an instrument with notes I can sustain longer. I will definitely consider going with the chromatic again before I make a final decision because buying valves and reeds and all of these other things will eventually add up to just buying a chromatic and reaching the same goal of chromaticism. The main drawbacks of the chromatic for me is the amount of parts and the cost.
I actually have two older chromatics, one is a huang and one a hohner 270 I believe wit a wooden body. The huang is a piece of junk it seems. I've tried closing the gap spacing, and cleaning it, and I still lose air on some holes. The hohner 270 on the other hand was a great harmonica that had a nice sound and playability. Unfortunately, the 270 is wooden and the reeds seemed to be glued to it, so I can't clean it which is problematic since it has a bit of a moldy smell to it. Apparently I played it before quitting and never gave it the final cleaning I needed to.
Also, I can't believe I forgot about stacking. I will have to look into that more. I'm familiar with the idea behind the technique, but I never really watched anyone use it.
@jonlaing
Yes, the diminished tuning allows for full chromaticism with just draw bends, but it needs 12 holes to get a 3 octave range.
The layout is:
C-Eb-Gb-A
D-F--Ab-B times 3
A benefit of the tuning that translates to both the chromatic and the diatonic is that the tuning has fewer patterns. I think it's one pattern for the root on the blow, one for the root on the draw, and one for the root on the draw bend.
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WinslowYerxa
8 posts
Apr 05, 2011
8:31 AM
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You'll have an easier time creating a diminished tuned diatonic from a solo tuned diatonic than from a standard diatonic.
Solo tuned diatonics have the following blow note series (in C):
C E G C | C E G C| C E G C
So you retune this to:
C Eb Gb A | C Eb Gb A | C Eb Gb A
Your draw notes are:
D F A B (repeat)
which you retune to
D F Ab B (repeat)
This is a much easier retuning job than retuning an instrument that has only four holes per octave, as the umber of semitones you have to change gets increasingly larger the farther you go.
Both Hohner and Seydel make 12-hole solo-tuned diatonics.
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chromaticblues
760 posts
Apr 05, 2011
9:07 AM
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I have spent many hours years ago figureing out note layouts and just trying to come up with something better and/or different. Every conceiveable note layout has advantages and disadvantages.
First: Have you ever played a half valved chromatic setup by someone that knows how to play one?
Second: Did you look at the classical tuning of a chromatic?
Third: Well 1+2=3
You said you haven't played harp in awhile. So your trying to figure out whats your best path. That is smart! Thats a good start.
For the music you've mentioned I honestly think a 12 hole chromatic is your starting point.
The diminished tuning also has one major disadvantage. Pick a scale any sacale. Now look where all the chord tones are in relationship to each other. I don't like that! Yes you don't have to learn as many patterns and there is a half step bend on every hole, But the note progression of the classical tuning is my favorite.
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oldwailer
1582 posts
Apr 05, 2011
7:24 PM
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To get the best possible jazz sound--shove a good blues band down a long flight of stairs. . .l
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