Stevelegh
116 posts
Mar 29, 2011
11:51 AM
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OK, I've ballsed up.
After reading up on PT's half valving and scouring t'interwebz, I bought some teflon sheet (Ultra Suede is hard to come by in England) and tried my hand at half valving a Lee Oskar.
Things to bear in mind:
One: The valves need to be narrower than the comb slots.
Two: Superglue is nasty stuff and gets into reeds and I have no idea how to get it out.
Three: Do not attempt to tackle this kind of fine work if you've a ham fisted twat like myself.
After three attempts, I've decided to stop being a skinflint and order either a Promaster Valved or a Seydel Gazell method.
Now I've vented my spleen, please leave me to lick my wounds and figure out how to sort out my kazoo sounding Lee Oskar in D. Real annoying part is that I played it beforehand and popped two overblows on it OTB. A little gapping and wax would've made it playable, but like an idiot I carried on with the experiment instead of digging out a worse harp.
PT I hate you! (not really, just checked out your album with Brendon on Spotify. Saved to my offline playlist. Awesome.)
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toddlgreene
2820 posts
Mar 29, 2011
12:09 PM
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Haha, this is exactly why I don't dabble in customizing beyond maybe gapping...I'd glue the harp to my kitchen table and hand, I'm sure.
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Todd
Eudora and Deep Soul
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bluemoose
499 posts
Mar 29, 2011
12:11 PM
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I tried to remove a rivet last night.....what was I thinking?
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MBH Webbrain - a GUI guide to Adam's Youtube vids
FerretCat Webbrain - Jason Ricci's vids (by hair colour!)
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Stevelegh
118 posts
Mar 29, 2011
12:18 PM
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Thanks Todd. Appreciate the solidarity in ham fistedness.
Bluemoose: Like Todd, had I attempted such a thing, I'd be permanently attached to a harp. I'm thinking I'd probably end up piercing my thigh or my winky or something..........
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bluemoose
501 posts
Mar 29, 2011
12:24 PM
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Okay, 2 rules:
1) don't play with hand tools naked.
2) always have a glass of Guinness nearby for emergency lubrication to prevent gluing accidents.
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MBH Webbrain - a GUI guide to Adam's Youtube vids
FerretCat Webbrain - Jason Ricci's vids (by hair colour!)
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REM
51 posts
Mar 29, 2011
12:25 PM
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Definately get one of the Seydel "Gazell method" harps. It's far superior than the promaster half valved, in comparison it's almost like a totally different instrument. A lot of people try the promaster and end up not liking it, and they just assume that half valving isn't for them, but I've heard of several people who then later tried one of the "Gazell method" harps and it totally changed their mind about half valving.
I've really been enjoying playing half valved harps recently. I've even considered switching to half valved instead of OBing (even though I've become pretty fluent with OBs). Setting up a good OB harp takes so much work (or costs a lot of money), and even then they can be pretty finicky. And you have to get use to the low gaps. It makes half valving seem really appealing. No need to spend a lot of money to buy an OB harp. Requires a lot less work, I'd still work on the harp to make sure all the bends work well, but it's definately a lot less work than having to set up a harp to OB just the way I want. Half valved harps do take some getting use to, but the ultra suede valves get rid of a lot of the problems, and you don't need to deal with low gaps like on an OB harp (so you don't need to worry about a reed choking if you articulate a blow note a little too hard).
Personally I think I'm still going to keep using OBs, but I'm also going to start using some half valved harps for certain things.
Last Edited by on Mar 29, 2011 12:28 PM
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MP
1550 posts
Mar 29, 2011
12:29 PM
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years ago i used a nail to remove a rivet. the rivet came out but the reed plate suffered and i suffered and wailed and gnashed teeth.
just thinking of it makes me feel creepy and abusive.
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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Ant138
865 posts
Mar 29, 2011
1:06 PM
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I stupidly once tried to open up the covers plates on a Hohner Bluesharp and I completely spooned it, It looked like I ran over them with a car.
I knew from that moment on i shouldn't try and customise my instruments. I go as far as gapping then if I have to I'll hand the job over to a pro.
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http://www.youtube.com/user/fiendant?feature=mhum
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Stevelegh
119 posts
Mar 29, 2011
2:11 PM
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Alright you lot rub it in why don'tcha....
Irony is I talk to Tony Dannecker on a regular basis and we had a long discussion about customising.
He mooted some options to me. Either learn to do the work yourself by trial and error, buy harps that need minimal work (read: expensive) or buy harps from a guy that's done the work already.
I concede to Mr D's wisdom. To be continued.......
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Matzen
118 posts
Mar 29, 2011
3:09 PM
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Are there any videos or such showing how to half valve a harp? I'm just interested in seeing how one of those harps is set up.
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Stevelegh
121 posts
Mar 30, 2011
2:19 AM
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Just an update: I looked into a Seydel 1847 with PT's valves and ET tuning. Over £100.00 from the Seydel site ($160.00), which I'm not prepared to spend out on an experiment. If it works for me, that'll be money well spent, but lets see if this is for me first..
I've got a Suzuki Promaster in Db that became an embossing casualty of mine (when will I ever learn?), so I've ordered a set of valved reedplates in D from The Harmonica Company for £22.00 ($35.00) including taxes and postage. At least I'll get an idea whether or not it's for me.
I hope so. I've been listening to PT's album Back To Back and it's awesome stuff and the sounds and method of valves make sense in my head.
On the Suzuki valves: Would it be an idea to take off a small amount to create the kind of gap as per the PT method. I could be setting myself up for disaster here. Could I screw the valves up?
I think I'll be able to jockey a pair of scissors without killing myself, but I'm more concerned with messing the valves up.
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HarpMan Freeman
130 posts
Mar 30, 2011
6:35 AM
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I too half valved a LO. I did use Ultra Suede. I ended up re-working the Valves three times before I got it right. Although it works as PT said it would, I am still trying to figure out how to play with valves. It found it the process to be tedious but I love the results. A one time pain in the butt for a long term benefit. Don't give up, it's worth the growing pain in my opinion.
Last Edited by on Mar 30, 2011 6:37 AM
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oldwailer
1579 posts
Mar 30, 2011
6:47 AM
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Hey, PT--maybe you might consider a book on this subject--how to valve a harp and maybe a few tips on how to play it--I'd sure buy it. . .
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Always be yourself--unless you suck. . .
-Joss Whedon
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Kyzer Sosa
959 posts
Mar 30, 2011
9:17 AM
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There is a PDF that PT had available that talked about it, including showing pics of the insides of the harp and valves. I found it useful when i tried to valve my fist harp. Rockin' Rons Music for less carries a limited supply of Seydels with the Gazell Method. You can get them in the 1847 Silvers for $100, or one of the other cheaper models for half as much. I have committed to the switch. I can play these harps with the same intensity and tradition as any regular harp on the market, but can blow bend the 2 hole. Ha! Best of both worlds by far and away. Im telling you all... once you draw bend that 7 hole and shade it, put some vibrato on it, etc...things that are difficult to do with the 6OB, youll never go back.
The principles are so similar to what we do with the harp already: Bend. If you can blow bend the upper register on any harp, you can blow bend the valved 1-6 too. Its a very similar action.
Im working on a version of somewhere over the rainbow in second position, which just isnt possible on a harp with no valves. ''good luck yall...FWIW, PT will be at HCH2.
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Kyzer's Travels
Kyzer's Artwork
"Music in the soul can be heard by the universe." - Lao Tzu
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Stevelegh
124 posts
Mar 30, 2011
9:39 AM
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Kyser: $100 for a Silver with PT method?
What's going on? I'm serious! How can a harp only be 2/3rds of the price in the US. I'm in England and Seydel want 115 Euro for this (granted with ET at an extra 20 euro), but that's $162!, I should be buying better than this direct from the manufacturer, given my location.
Can someone from Seydel on here explain this?
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