I have recently been getting back into playing amplified harp on the rack. I only have 1 guitar amp and use it for my guitar in my 1 man band setup. I stumbled upon an amp simulator in my recording software and was shocked at how good it sounded. I ran the harp mic direct into a mic preamp and then to my recording software. the problem is the harp sound I am hearing while recording is a muffled acoustic one (harp is in a beer can cooler on the rack). I want to be able to work with the tones and sounds you hear when going through an amp in real time. The plug in lets me dial it in afterwards but I know I am missing a lot of stuff this way. I was planning on buying a vintage vibro champ but now am wondering if there are any pedal type amp simulators that are any good. I want to plug my harp mic into it and then run that into a mic preamp(when recording) and the PA when playing live. I now carry way too much gear to gigs - guitar amp, 2 guitars, guitar stands, cds, harps, PA, mic stand, bass drum, snare drum, ride cymbal, drum pedals/hardware, keyboard, keyboard stand, and my chair. To add another amp gives me a stress attack- I am getting too old to be lugging all this crap. I am looking for a vintage fender amp sound. I haven't paid any attention to this area of gear. There may be something out there other than what I am describing. I am looking for a pedal size and cheap, if such a thing exists. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. Walter
here is the song I did through the amp simulator. I only spend a few minutes with it.
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Since typing this I have done an internet seach and the lone wolf harp attack looks interesting. It is small, sounded good on the video clips, and pretty inexpensive. Would I be able to run this right into a mic preamp/or recording interface for recording? Thanks. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
I really like HarpAttack, but it's actually not a simulator, it's real tube harp distortion, it works better with speaker or speaker simulators. I also have digitech RP200, it also OK for playing to PA. Anyway nor HarpAttack nor RP200 are not perfect to PA, but both can be good.
Check Richard Hunter using digitech amp modeller
I also like how Brendan Power sounds with his tiny Korg Pandora
---------- Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
Brendon could make a lard bucket sound good--so could Walter--it ain't all in the electronics. . . ---------- ==================================== Always be yourself--unless you suck. . . -Joss Whedon
Boris: Thanks for taking the time to post these videos. I wonder how these things would work direct into my computer recording interface?
oldwailer: Thanks. Are you having the problem of the vocals coming through the harp rack mic? This is a big issue for me. I don't want my voice sounding like howling wolf :-) Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
@Walter--yeah, shielding the holder mic from the vocal mic is the problem I've been grappling with for the last two days--I think I'm very close to getting it as good as it can get. Singing right into the harp might be a solution (seems like you were the one who taught me that idea a while back). Of course, you don't always want the EQ on the harp the same as for voice. For me, sounding like the Howlin' Wolf would be a big plus point--but that isn't what I'm getting yet.
I can't answer your question about going into a computer direct from the pedals discussed above--but I do find that anything I can feed into an amp can be fed into my computer. I like to use an old Alesis MultiMix8 Firewire plugged into the computer (or camera)--it has 100 FX presets that can be adjusted on 8 different channels.
They don't make this particular Alesis model anymore. If there is a pedal out there that won't plug into the input chain to a computer, I would be very surprised--and annoyed beyond measure, if I had just bought one. The amp simulator is a device I have been salivating over for a long time--but every time I hear Brendon do "Bullfrogs" I think about how cool it would be to do some looping too (sorry, I guess I'm just not a real OMB purist).
I'll probably have a demo video up today or tomorrow on the holder I have so far--I hope you will take a look at it and evaluate what it needs for me--and just let me know if I'm on the right track and where it might be improved. I like what I'm hearing for me--but I would be interested in how it would sound to a more professional set of ears. . . ---------- ==================================== Always be yourself--unless you suck. . . -Joss Whedon
oldwailer: I am excited to hear your mic set up. How did you shield the vocals? I have found the beer cooler isolates the sound better. Basically the harp mic is running a ton of bass, and little highs and mids, and is breaking up via the amp. A very interesting puzzle..... I have an old barcus berry pickup somewhere that use to attach to an acoustic guitar/acoustic bass. I am going to find it and attach it to the harp and see what happens. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Walter, I think the Digitech Series are good for you. I have a RP350 with the patches from Richard Hunter and you can really create any sound. They are pretty cheap, very versatile and durable. It simulates a great amount of amps (including Fender Tweed Champ '57, Fender Bassman '59 and many more). You can also choose different cabinet models. Then you have all the guitar effects that you can add as well.
I don't think you need the patches from Richard Hunter if you have time to spend with it and set it up yourself.
There is a usb connection that allows you to connect it straight into your computer to record everything. For example, these are things I have recorded with it:
I'm not completely happy with Digitech RP200 and I want to try POD, Korg and Zoom. The only problem, any modeller need a bunch of time and practice to find right settings. ---------- Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
Last Edited by on Mar 07, 2011 8:38 AM
Micha No enough bass and dynamics comparing to my pedalboard an amp. OK, but not great. The strangest thing about digitech is when I use my regular analog rig or I play completely acoustically I hear on recording my own tone I worked for years. When I play through digitech my acoustic tone is completely different, even when I use absolutely clean patches. Your tone for second clip is completely the same as mine, but I suppose we have different tones.
this is really my acoustic tone, my resonance.
this is my tone through digitech. It's the same as yours, the same as Richard Hunter's, good, but not mine own! The same feel about overdriven tones, I dont't feel it's my tone, it don't respond good for my resonance.
---------- Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
Last Edited by on Mar 06, 2011 4:26 AM
I still really like my Yamaha Stomp Box II. They are no longer made and to program custom patches on it you will need a pc that's running older windows - - but the tone to my ear is superior to line 6 - and to what Richard Hunter gets out of his box. If you see one on Craigslist in your area it is worth checking out. - then again , if you find something that is still sold and supported that rings your chime - you may be better off. ----------
The worst thing about trying amp modellers and multi-fx is you need at least a half year to check all features to find positive and negative issues. I buy Digitech RP 200 and decide to prepare patches myself, it was bunch of feedback, too much gain, too less gain etc. So I bought Richard Hunter patches, they works fine, but I don't hear my tone. So there's no harmonica patches for POD or Zoom, it seems that I need to buy one another and experiment for year or so. I'm really tired of carrying my pedalboard for long travels (great for local gigs), so I really want small box with clean tone, overdriven tone, octaver, leslie, slapback delay, long delay. And I think, I'll take some other modeller once (hope soon, but as usually I'm short of money) ---------- Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
thanks everyone for sharing this information. Micha I wish I could test drive one of these things. It is amazing how different it could sound with different players on the same settings........... This scenario it seems is very much like finding the right microphone, compressor, eq, and preamp combinations when recording music. Unfortunately there aren't many places to go and check them all out before buying and even then it takes, as Boris said, a long time of fooling around with it to see if it is right for you. I will keep investigating this subject so please keep sharing your information. Like I said initally I am totally ignorant in this area of gear. The clips Boris posted really were eye opening. You would think with all the technology today they would have the field of amp simulation much further developed. bonedog do you have some high quality samples of the yamaha in action?
Last night I put a shure 57 into an empty paper towel roll(lined it with an old winter hat I had laying around) and hooked this to my harp rack. I laid the mic inside the roll parrallel to the harp with the capsule around the middle holes. This took a lot of the weight off my flimsy $8 harp rack (thanks Greg your words came to me)and the cord didn't get in the way of guitar playing. Previously I had put the 57 into the beer can cooler and it was perpendicular to the harp rack. That was way to heavy on my neck and the cord was hitting the guitar strings and piano keys. I plugged both ends of the paper towel roll up with paper towels and ran this to a preamp and then my recording interface. Again it was a pretty clean sound and somewhat compressed but more amp like sounding than with the tie clip mic because I was able to compress it more without it overloading. The 57 did not pick up the vocals near as much as the tie clip mic. I might buy a harp attack for live gigs to run through the PA.
On mixdown I used the guitar amp simulator on my recording software to get it broken up. Greg I will be probably be buying one of your shortened 57's at some point. Maybe you could put the guts of the 57 in a light casing to lighten it up further? I am thinking of using some pipe insulation or pvc pipe to replace the cardboard roll and permantly attaching the mic to it instead of duct tape. I think the hohner harp rack may be in order for strenght. Walter
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
walter, if you decide to go with a digitech, all the new models come with a direct stereo USB connection that you can plug into your computer. The computer "sees" the Digitech unit as a "USB Mixer", separate from the onboard computer soundcard, so you can use whatever recording software you like with them. You can download all the right drivers and the patch-editing software from thr digitech website. I've had great success using my digitech RP 155 with computer recording. IMO, the fidelity is outstanding.
isaacullah: If I lived near someone with one I would love to try it out but to shell out the money and not know what I am getting sounds no bueno but it is sounding interesting..... Hopefully I will meet someone around here with one I can check out. Walter
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Using these devices live is a different beast then is a studio. Live, most people, if not all, won't hear a huge difference assuming you have a full PA. Double true if playing with a full range of band instruments.
My solution has been to go straight to the PA live with my board and then use a small amp, the VHT Special 6, for recording.
What I've done is set up a "clean" PA sound, which isn't really clean to begin with as I am cupping a mic, but you know what I mean. Then I stomp on a Lone Wolf Harp Break for overdrive. It is not perfect and sounds better in front of tubes, but it was the only stompboxes I could find that was very harp friendly and not loud when turning on and off.
The only person who can hear a difference between that rig and my amp is me. Even the cab gets cancelled out FOH by the PA and full band. ---------- Mike Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas Updated 2/24/11
Micha It's fireball to AKG wireless to MXR Carbon Copy to LoneWolf HarpAttack to PA. ---------- Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
Fender recently introduced the Mustang line of amps that has USB computer connectivity to allow for recording on the PC as well as loading presets to the amp. Interesting ... an amp with built in amp modeling ...
I don't have any kind of amp so I am using a Vamp2 by Behringer , a cheaper version of the POD , in this video I used some kind of Marshall stack amp and cab sim (LOL?) if I remember correctly .
If you can get one used (no longer made) the Hughes & Kettner Blues Master (AKA Crunchmaster) is the business.
It's not a tube amp sim - it's a full 1W tube amp preamp 12ax7 and power amp stage (EL83) with dummy load, speaker sim and a very Fenderish sound. More output options than you can think of and designed to go direct to PA.
thanks for the suggestions! How about this one for going direct into the computer for recording and PA? I think I can run 2 lines with it so I could leave my guitar amp at home for gigs and run it through the PA as well? Walter possible direct to computer and PA simulator?
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Pod is great (my guitarist friend has one), as is the Behringer Vamp (which I own and occasionally use). I've always looked on them as home/studio kit though. For hooking up to a computer something like this would be fine, but I have serious doubts about how these things would fare on the road. At the end of the day, you'd answer that question best. I know Line 6 used to make a Pod Pro which was a 19" Rack-unit which if cased would be far more road friendly: I think there was a Vamp rack unit too.
The biggest thing about these things is that you get tons of amp models, cabinet models and effects - I'll bet you, you end up using only 1 or 2 though (but then that would apply to most digital kit these days).
I lost my post, but the Tech 21 Sans amps are as close as I could find to what Mr. V said, and his Behringer is a clone of a Sans amp. A Bassman that is harp friendly would be all I would need. In fact, I'd use it all the time live.
Something that would sound good to the PA would be great. The Harp Break works really well, but I use it almost entirely as an overdrive pedal.
I am only doing one gig this month (took a new temp job in addition to what I do know and am finishing grad school this month), so I don't have lots of noodling time, but I will try and set up the HB with my VHT and post a clip. I will for sure try and use the HB to the PA for the gig and use it as my "amped" tone. I don't need an OD pedal for that band anyways. ---------- Mike Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas Updated 2/24/11
Mr. V, are you saying they tonally won't work live or they aren't built sturdy for live applicaitons? I should just get the Behringer and see how it goes.
NEVERMIND, you're talking the POD knock-off...I thought you meant the pedal. ---------- Mike Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas Updated 2/24/11
Last Edited by on Mar 09, 2011 6:41 AM
I would recommend Harp Break. You can get a different sound from it for different situations. It sounds pretty good into PA. Here is my little demo of this device: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13dkc5F3sPI ---------- http://www.youtube.com/user/wheelharp
I was referring to the kidney shaped original style POD that Walter linked to and the guitar shaped Behringer clone, the V amp2 which I have.
I meant that plastic shells and flimsy dials all set off warning bells for me... especially with stuff that goes on the floor in the proximity of clod hopper drummers. No problems with the actual sounds of the thing.
Yes I also have SansAmp knock off DI pedal from Behringer which is pretty good and at £30 the plastic shell doesn't concern me as much. Easily replaced.
I am continuing to use a shure 57 stuck in an empty paper towel roll that is lined with cloth and attached to my harp rack. I stuff the ends of the roll with foam to get compression. I am running this direct to a recording preamp and then adding a plug in amplifier simulator on mixdown. Walter
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
