to each there own.but you might have to pay when you play,but thats another blues song waiting to be wrote;-) ---------- Hobostubs
Last Edited by on Mar 01, 2011 1:33 PM
I saw the second interview this afternoon, where he's in his kitchen with his "goddesses."
I think Sheen is a superb Rorschach test. He presses all our buttons, wherever they are, shamelessly. He's an unapologetic sensualist. He's living his truth. He's bipolar. He's beyond our puny humanoid judgment. His veins are filled with viper blood. He's a reptilian cyborg AND he's getting the babes and the big house. He's extraordinarily selfish, peevish, snarky. He's winning. He's all about Charlie. He's a force of nature. He's a sad spectacle. He's entertaining. He's not good for his own kids. He's rock and roll. He's refreshingly, almost breathtakingly honest about his drug use. He's forgetting all the hell he's put people through and besides, it's all just a bunch of bad-boy posturing: a bad boy simultaneously playing up and shrugging off his own naughtiness
Of course he's almost sure to crash and burn, and then all the nay-sayers will jump and cackle around his limp carcass. As they surely have a right to--if that's their thing. Or will he, just possibly, NOT crash and burn? Hard to believe he won't. But who's to say? Maybe he's just cussed enough to stay straight this time. (I wouldn't bet on it.)
Certainly Sheen himself is one heck of a judgmental guy--until, suddenly, he's not. That's one of the things that fascinates me.
Above all, he's a conjuror of OUR judgments. He wants us to judge him, then wants to laugh at us for the limited world-views out of which any negative judgment we attach to him proceeds. In this respect, he's a fascinating philosophical/ethical puzzle.
It's the disease of success. I think there are personality types that are prone to addiction. Anyone that can do 7 grams of coke at one sitting has a problem. Not to slight his very real problems,but let's put some perspective on it. There are people with physical and mental handicaps quietly fighting every day and with far less money. Charlie has been handed great opportunities and what's he doing with them?
P.S. I'd love to see him at HCH2. He can room with me!LOL
Last Edited by on Mar 01, 2011 1:47 PM
In his apparently lucid ability to quickly respond and justify and rationalise his position he is showing a classic sign of bipolar disorder.
By having an ego filled sense of superiority over those that he perceives as judging him he is showing a classic sign of bipolar disorder.
The only difference between him and the hundreds of thousands of other people living with this condition is that he is front page news with a worldwide audience and the media beating down his door to talk to him.
A bipolar friend of my mother's thought she was personally chosen by God and tried to give away all her money and possessions. Noone wanted to interview her.
Last Edited by on Mar 01, 2011 1:58 PM
@mvlun I agree completely with everything you say and did not mean to overly glorify the artistic contributions of the manic or hypomanic. Just point out that the argrument has been made-
"It's an unarguable fact that some talented creative people are/were bi-polar - there is definitely a link - but not everyone who has this condition is Van Gogh or Beethoven. Make no mistake, lives can and are destroyed by this condition." ----------
O.K. I'll stick myself out there and say that I couldn't care less about Charlie Sheen (or fill in the blank celebrity)or Housewives of whatever city or a Kardashian or a weird looking bounty hunter. I enjoy a good movie (or concert) just like anyone else. But I simply don't get the huge interest in these people. Some people enjoy psycology and/or help people with their problems(my son is a Clinical Psycology major)and that's great. I am hypocriticle and will admit that if he were a family member or friend, I would care.
I have friends, close ones, who have been helped by AA. Lives changed and saved. g\Good ones. For Sheen to disrespect this organization shows him to be an insensitive elitist he is.
For someone who isn't a clinician and who - rightly - queries the usefulness of diagnosis by media, you seem remarkably keen to show us how Mr. Sheen exhibits the "classic signs" of bipolar disorder, indeed, drawing a parallel between "him and the hundreds of thousands of other people living with this condition."
In so doing, I wonder whether:
(a) you're being unintentionally flippant about understanding what is, I'm sure you'd agree, a pretty complex topic
and
(b) you're painting the most helpful picture of the condition (and, of course, those of us who live with it)?
@eharp:
/it's sad that more people have seen/read sheen's interview than know about people/affairs that directly affect their lives.
please, prove me wrong- within a couple of billion, how large is america's deficit? who's the president of russia? what are the 3 branches of the federal government? who was sheen's last wife?
it's sad that we have become such a voyeuristic society./
I agree with Hondo. I just don't get all the interest in Charlie Sheen. I've never watched "Two and a Half Men." I've never knowingly watched a movie that he was in. So I'm coming at the whole thing from quite a different place than most people who are currently paying attention.
Certainly he's a distraction from a whole series of important world problems. Then again, he's the Icarus myth incarnate, and there's nothing wrong with paying attention to the gods (and Goddesses) when they're making themselves manifest.
Icarus, as we know, glued on some feathers to create wings, then flew too close to the sun, melted his feathers, and crashed to earth. I've long thought that Hollywood, and the press that covers it, has taken the place in our culture of Olympus and its gods in ancient Greece; now I'm convinced that that's true. There's a whole bunch of them flying around up there, somewhere above the red carpet; we watch them, we talk about them, and we're fascinated by those who strike the earth with lightning bolts, or come crashing down to earth. (Or get wheeled out of the Plaza Hotel on gurneys, in handcuffs and Wayfarers.) Charlie Sheen is playing that role for us right now. He's a god, of sorts. I mean that in a non-judgmental way. He's just....up there. Full blown in the media fog. I was fascinated by the Egypt-erupts story several weeks ago. I'm equally fascinated by the Charlie Sheen story. I make no apologies. I'm winning, dude. Talk to the viper's blood. :()>
Last Edited by on Mar 01, 2011 5:18 PM
adam, you dont get all the interest but: 1) you watch, not 1 but 2, interviews of his. 2) you start an ot thread about it. 3) you make it a cliff hanger because you want others to post first.
c'mon. admit it. you watch access hollywood, dont you? lol
I don't watch Access Hollywood, but I've heard of it.
I don't get the general interest in Charlie Sheen prior to this point, frankly. I find the idea that he's the highest paid TV actor mind-boggling. Nor do I really get the prior interest in his drug-soaked, porn-actress-deploying debaucheries.
But I'll admit to being fascinated by the specter of an out-of-control maniac suddenly "cleaning up his act," mocking AA and therapy culture, insisting that he has cured himself of addiction essentially overnight through the power of the mind, and then opening his house to extended interviews where he parades his so-called "goddesses" without the slightest sense of irony, and talks about being a warlock with viper's blood flowing through his veins. It's funny. It's baroque. It's living theater. Who is writing his lines?
Oh: and it's blues. It's "Hoochie Coochie Man." You all got that, right? Tell me you got that. "I'm the Hoochie-Coochie Man....everybody knows I'm here," etc.
Last Edited by on Mar 01, 2011 5:48 PM
It's funny until someone gets hurt. If you've spent much time with people that are bi-polar, someone eventually gets hurt. Lives get messed up. When you are around people like that, it can be very troubling.
/When you are around people like that, it can be very troubling./
*tongue firmly in cheek*
People like that?! Well, well... I'll be sure to ring my bell, call out "unclean, unclean" in a loud, clear voice and - hopefully - spare you my troubling presence!
*retreats into isolation, lest he cause hurt and mess up the lives of others...*
xxx
EDITED to correct spelling
Last Edited by on Mar 01, 2011 6:26 PM
I have known several people with bipolar disorder personally and professionally. I myself live with depression - not manic depression - but believe me I know firsthand that mental ill health is nothing to be flippant about.
Yes it is wrong to generalise about something so complex - but do you disagree that grandiose self-perception, pressured speech and rapid thought process are not amongst the common warning signs that people living with the condition are urged to look for in planning their recovery?
I myself do not subscribe to the anti-psychiatry movement. I am a pragmatist. When I have been in the dark pits of depression, in hindsight it is clearly (in my mind if you'll pardon the pun) an illness. I believe Imiprimine, Librium and Prozac saved my life and I owe a debt of gratitude to those that prescribed them. Perhaps therein lies the difference in our opinions?
I have a cousin that is a psychiatrist, was the Secretary of Mental Health for a midwestern State, and also was a professor of psychiatry at Harvard for a while.
I was a heavy cocaine abuser back in the 80's....yes, it was a VERY good indication of financial standing at the time. I'm also a proud graduate of the Betty Ford Clinic.
In the past couple of days, my cuz and I have had some very interesting conversations courtesy of Mr Sheen.
/I know firsthand that mental ill health is nothing to be flippant about/
As do I.
/do you disagree that grandiose self-perception, pressured speech and rapid thought process are not amongst the common warning signs that people living with the condition are urged to look for in planning their recovery?/
Warning signs for people living with the condition - i.e. people who have already been diagnosed? Yes. Diagnostic criteria? In an appropriate context, such behaviours could certainly be read as factors which indicate the possibility of bipolar disorder, but they're far from conclusive.
/I myself do not subscribe to the anti-psychiatry movement/
Neither do I. Which isn't to say I don't think they've got a point.
/Perhaps therein lies the difference in our opinions?/
I don't see any difference of opinion.
I'm just picking you up on something (I think?) we both agree is profoundly important - less to pick on you, more because this is a public forum and it matters - people with mental health issues are stigmatised, we and our situation are at the sharp end of all kinds of misinformed nonsense, this is nothing to be flippant about.
And..
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I medicate (lithium) and, like you, I'm really rather grateful for it.
Finally, when I wrote "unintentionally flippant," I meant "unintentionally."
TahoeMike- I'm not sure. Charlie's characters always bug me. I was actually a Jon Cryer fan before 2 1/2. Charlie's acting always seems over the top, but without the chops to back it up. He pretty much ruined Spin City for me. I guess he was alright in some of his early stuff, but I can never connect to his characters. I hate Seinfeld too.
hey mark, i can tell you i was NOT a happy person a lot of my life. i also had great examples of justified excessive drinking behavior and rationalizing it while hearing that i was not allowed to join in. who cares which came first? the same reason i don't ponder my navel. to me it's pointless, the fact of the matter is i ran as hard and far and long as i could until suicide looked like a most attractive option. fortunately for me i was a wuss and decided to reach out and ask for help, which i got. the whole media thing with celebrities must make it harder to actually get some privacy and peace. having people around who are telling you you're doing great- and how could they possibly know what's going on inside another person?- not to mention having money and access to the best medical care, and sex bomb babes falling all over themselves to score with you- these may seem ludicrous to some but i can see how they could get in the way of a real honest try at making some changes. trusting total strangers and some idea of a higher power might seem useless or even dangerous to some.
being sober in a music community is to me personally a plus. but there is another side to it. there is a clique of musicians- i bet in most every town, burg, city, county- that you will not belong to if you don't drink a particular something or smoke a particular something. some of these folks are the movers and shakers about town. their notice or friendship could mean gigs and recognition. i am always gracious when offered something i've left behind those years ago. still, some people look at you funny if you don't want to partake with them. ironically, i want to be there if any of these same folks ever need an ear or an idea about how to find peace in recovery. meanwhile i just carry on, enjoy what i was doing, pass some joy around, and live my good life.
WOW! I couldn't watch it all. Half way thru I thought thats enough for me. He really is losing his mind! This isn't bypolor. This is happens to people that do COKE ALOT! Its not pretty! He's about to have a coke mentdown! He's not going to be winning much longer. I don't wish that on anybody. I wish he would stop recording himself. Who is on the phone with him telling him he's brilliant? That's the root of the problem right there. To many people are playing along because they can make money of his misfortune
Well, most people can not party like Ric Flair without some sort of adverse effect on the human body. I feel sorry for his family. I hope he can get his act together before he loses his life.
Well, my english is not good enough to understand really his blabbering there, but it sounds like bad theater to me. Now, he's playing the madman and probably gets paid for that...
@ the Gloth - It's not your english that's the problem. This just plain makes no sense whatsoever.
I do believe Charlie that he's clean, but it's obvious his brain has seriously suffered from massive amounts of abuse. That's the lingering effects of bangin' 7 gram rocks and finishing 'em.
I didn't realize that going on the biggest crack binge you've ever heard of, getting fired from your reality tv show, and having your kids removed from your custody was WINNING......
I watched but feel really dirty now - like after watching some sick porn that I can't quite turn away from. It is easy to make fun of but we are witnessing a person coming completely unglued. I don't know if it's the coke or bipolar disease or a combination of both but it is sad. His seeminingly unlimitted ego it makes it easy to 'root' against him at first - untll you realize how sick he is.
His pimp of a manager should be hauled before an ethics committe. Do they have those in Holywood ? - Um, don't think so - ah well.
I suggest letting this go. It is not serving our dignity to contiue wallowing in this mess. Perhaps I need a Charlie Sheen Video blood test to keep me honest - and off the Sheen video 'suace'.
Guys, believe me I don't watch Access Hollywood or ET AND I make fun of my wife almost every night for even having that crap on our TV. (While I of course am online reading here, listening to blues, or practicing harp.) I mean I REALLY can't believe people care what the latest hollywood princess' legal troubles are or if Kim Kardashian broke a fingernail this week again. BUT I will admit the one show I would stop and watch is 2 & a Half Men. It was pretty funny. I will tell you this. That guy was on a show full time for the last how many years? He was good looking, smart, and at least could hold down a full time gig, as an actor in the public eye, up until like this year, and all of a sudden this crap explodes and he's aged like 15 years overnight? And all these interviews in which he obviously acts strung out??? LOOK AT HIM. This guy is not all of a sudden suffering from a mental illness. This guy is freakin wired. I've seen it happen to too many otherwise good guys that get to liking the meth a little too much. Just MHO.
---------- It's MUSIC, not just complicated noise.
Last Edited by on Mar 08, 2011 7:55 PM
This is how Sheen fits into my world....and I have not read all of the posts in this thread as I have many other things to use my precious free time on....
I find Two and a Half Men entertaining - my wife does not.
I have paid no attention to Sheen's off screen antics as I am not interested - my wife on the other hand.....
