Tank
11 posts
Jul 13, 2017
5:13 AM
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As a beginner, I went with a C harp, but now the 4 draw reed has gone, and as replacement reed plates are not readily available here in the UK, I have simply replaced the whole harp. I know new harps need to be blown in gently (something I admit I didn't do with my first C harp) but just how much playing in does a harp usually require before you can confidently start playing it hard? I'm playing the Suzuki Bluesmaster, if that helps!?
Thanks!
Keith (Norfolk, England.)
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SuperBee
4792 posts
Jul 13, 2017
6:04 AM
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G'day Keith.
I am not sure I believe in the notion of breaking them in gently. For a while I completely denied it, but now I am ambivalent. I've never bothered to take any time to break them in, and I can't say any of my harps have broken especially early where I can't just blame my general playing for it. I don't break harps it seems unless I play on loud stages, so it seems clear that I play loudly there in an effort to hear myself or maybe just because I get a big rush of adrenaline and enthusiasm.
Kinya pollard reckons he believes in a break in period and hooks his harps up to a vacuum cleaner for a time.
I've seen some quasi-science claims about molecular realignment from gentle play. I think MTG may have debunked it.nnc4
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MindTheGap
2289 posts
Jul 14, 2017
2:42 AM
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I've not debunked it exactly. But there are all sorts of claims around, and just think it's reasonable to ask that if 'breaking in' is going on (case hardening, work hardening, molecular realignment or whatever) and that changes the mechanical properties of the reed, then why don't we hear an effect on the tuning?
I think it's up to the break-in believers to explain why the tuning isn't affected, rather than me to explain why it should be.
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SuperBee
4794 posts
Jul 14, 2017
5:24 AM
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Sure, I searched and found the last thread. I think it's interesting that some folks who have been in the game a long time still stand by the notion of breaking in harps.
But then again, I've encountered some folks in the harp world who have been making quite confident pitches for certain equipment, and upon questioning I've established to my satisfaction that they really don't know much about it. I guess if you have been used to people accepting what you say for a long time it's possible you might become complacent.
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Fil
334 posts
Jul 14, 2017
7:01 AM
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And there are arguments for just not playing hard. Play hard a lot and eventually, probably sooner rather than later, break reed, harp broken in or not. I recall some time back being advised to carefully break a new car engine in...vary speed moderately for 500 miles. Even so, drive it at 120 mph a lot and it'll die young. Don't have to do that now they say, but 120mph will have the same affect.
Not a great analogy, I guess. And reading it back I say to myself, what an old fart....
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Phil Pennington
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Phil Pennington
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MindTheGap
2291 posts
Jul 14, 2017
7:22 AM
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Fil good analogy. I guess the 'breakers in' would say that it protects against damage during the 120mph runs.
I've also got problems with the universally accepted model of reed failure by metal fatigue. Many 'reed breakers' report breaking reeds after just a few hours hard playing, or just one gig even. Whereas I've never broken a reed despite (probably) hundreds of hours on any particular harp.
I know metal fatigue is highly non-linear with stress but this doesn't seem quite right. Perhaps I play so softly that I'm effectively 'breaking in' my harps all the time! But the 'metal fatiguers' point out that there is no lower stress limit for brass, so that doesn't hold up: however soft you play, they are going to snap in the end.
The one time I did damage a reed was on a cheap harp, and I was trying to play extra loud to compete with a guitarist. The reed yanked out of shape in one go, got stuck, and then played a bit flat. But came back with tuning.
This looks more like one-off shock than long term fatigue.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jul 14, 2017 7:31 AM
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SuperBee
4795 posts
Jul 14, 2017
8:30 AM
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I started thinking about 'incidents' causing reed damage rather than just time playing. Every time I come across a reed with a crease I think of it. I've only seen this in brass reeds.
In steel reeds I often see rust coloured marks around the crack in the reed. Usually its a draw reed I notice, and usually it's most obvious on the comb side of the reed. I've begun to wonder if corrosion might have led to the failure. But there aren't usually any tuning marks and the reeds crack in the same place I expect them to crack so I suppose the crack happens first.
Oh, I replaced a reed in a G harp, seydel noble, and forvthd first time ever I can say this was a steel reed harp I'd be happy to play. I've never played one that works as well as this. It was interesting, a G harp that probably played more like a Bb or A marine band. I've built myself an 1847 silver with C plates that shows promise too, but still can't say that's as good as my preferred harps. Still, maybe I'm starting to appreciate them.
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MindTheGap
2292 posts
Jul 14, 2017
8:49 AM
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Corrosion has a big effect on metal failure - not just the 'fatigue' that everyone is so fond of. I'm not claiming anything other than someone could usefully investigate it. It's obvious that harps are subject to corrosion - just open one up and have a look!
The difference between habitual reed breakers and non-breakers could be down to the composition of their spit!!!
Steel is supposed to have a threshold for metal fatigue - below which it can go on indefinitely. So the fact that steel reeds break indicates that the stress is above that threshold (in which case what's the point?) or there's something else going on.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jul 14, 2017 12:44 PM
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dchurch
136 posts
Jul 14, 2017
8:21 PM
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Keith,
I'm also not a big believer in a break in requirement, but I do try to take it easy on new harps. I believe the player actually gets broken into a new harp. Learning the subtle differences in keys, makes, models... can take a little bit of time depending on your level of experience with different harps. Maybe a few minutes or hours. For example if you have never played a "F" harp or Low G harp you will need more time to get used to them than a A or C harp.
Especially because you broke a reed early, I suggest it would be helpful for you to think in terms of breaking yourself into your new harp, or breaking in the harp. Don't force reeds to play if you feel there might be something wrong with them (It's you). Don't blow, suck, or honk on your Bluesmaster. It should sound just fine by simply breathing through it.
You can play hard on a new harp right out of the box if you have a good feel for the harp and good technique. That dosent mean you should abuse or over play a harp, new or old.
Although many of my harps are complety original, I admit to breaking reeds now and then.They almost always go flat first while developing a nearly invisible hairline crack near the base of the reed. I generally know when I'm abusing a harp or reed. I do my own repairs and don't mind replacing a reed once in a while. It's funny I can't remember ever cracking a draw 3 reed and it gets the biggest workout in the majority of my harps.
I've never considered using a vacuum cleaner... to break in reeds. That sounds kind of crazy to me. I'm no expert but working metal to harden it seems to require some pretty serious stretching or deformation in my experience.
Good luck with your new Bluesmaster, and keep that old one for parts. :)
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It's about time I got around to this.
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SuperBee
4799 posts
Jul 15, 2017
12:17 AM
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I've broken one 3 draw. It was in my D crossover which I've had since early 2012, and I think it broke this time last year. That harp has seen a lot of use and I'd already mended the 4 and 5 draw.
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indigo
386 posts
Jul 15, 2017
9:16 PM
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I've told this story a few times over the years but it is worth retelling.
I used to buy a new harp and on the way home i'd unbox it and hold it out the window of my car and let the wind play the reeds.
One day i hear the siren and so i pull over.
Cop gives me a ticket for speeding(fair enough) and as a parting comment says to me in all seriousness "what's the story with hanging that harmonica out the window,don't you have a radio?"
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dchurch
138 posts
Jul 15, 2017
9:31 PM
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Indigo, that's a great story!!!
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It's about time I got around to this.
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