528hemi
181 posts
Feb 23, 2011
4:12 PM
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I have a 5 Watt Masco mu-5 with a 8 inch vintage jensen speaker that has awesome tone to me...just perfect for the bedroom and living room.
I also have a 12 to 15 Watt Multivox combo bass amp that has a Jensen P12R reissue (12" speaker) that is really crisp but also when you lean into it it breaks up nicely. It is horn like and has strong crisp mids and highs that cut and project. It is also a great amp.
My last amp I just picked up, traded for 2 mics is a masco me-18p that was custom mounted in a cabinet with a 15" Vintage CTS 40 watt reconed speaker. This amp sounds fatter then the others but the mids and highs are not as crisp as the multivox or the masco Mu-5. It also seems to have more of a echo sound like you are running it through a reverb.
So My question without rigging something up to play it through the 12" jensen right now. Is this characteristic of a 15" speaker? Fatter but not as crisp responce in the mids and highs and more reverb? It still breaks up and has a nice tone but definitely different. More smooth and rounder.
I am definitely going to hook it up to try the Masco 18P through a 12" but wanted to get your thoughts on speaker size and the tone they produce given that the amp stays constant.
Regards
528hemi
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shbamac
98 posts
Feb 23, 2011
4:30 PM
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Was wondering who was going to end up with that amp. Would love to hear it if you get the chance to do a vid or sound clip.
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pistolero
78 posts
Feb 23, 2011
4:49 PM
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My (limited) expertise is in car audio subwoofers and I'll say right off the bat I have little to no experience with the kinds of amplifiers we are talking about here. But in general yes, larger speakers are not as "tight" in general, all else being equal of course. A pair of 10's will have a tighter "punch" than a 15 which will rumble low louder but be a little muddier. And of course an 8 or 10 is closer to a full range speaker than a 15 or 18 which would be more for just "sub bass" freqs. This is all a generalization and with the right speaker construction, in the perfect enclosure and with enough power a large speaker can sound surprisingly good, it's just harder to do with an 18 or 15 than four 10's or a pair of 12s (in general).
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It's MUSIC, not just complicated noise.
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strawwoodclaw
210 posts
Feb 23, 2011
5:30 PM
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my Meteor amp has a 15" Weber speaker with a big ceramic magnet The mids & highs ring out more with this speaker than my other amps with 12" speakers or 10". I like 15" speakers for harp I think a lot of people do who have tried them.
I had a Supro amp with a Jensen P15P which was very crunchy & trebley sounding definitely not muddy or just rumbling bass
I think it depends on all the other components in the amp to how it will sound not just the speaker configuration
old Mascos sound very fat & bassy I think they sometimes sound better with a brighter speaker like a modern Jensen
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pistolero
79 posts
Feb 23, 2011
5:44 PM
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"I think it depends on all the other components in the amp to how it will sound not just the speaker configuration"
Yes! I agree 100%. I'll stand by my statement though "all else being equal". Large speakers can and do sound great, it's just that "all else being equal" it is harder to make a large speaker as "crisp" or "tight" as a mid sized speaker.
It's plain physics. One larger cone being driven by one coil is not as stiff overall as two smaller cones which have as much or more surface area but are stiffer, and being driven by two coils, easier to move/control per cubic inch of surface area.
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It's MUSIC, not just complicated noise.
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528hemi
182 posts
Feb 23, 2011
8:54 PM
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Pistolero,
That makes alot of sense.
Straw,
I think you are right about a brighter speaker might sound better to me. Dont get me wrong it sounds good but different. I tend to like a fat sound but also punchier. Maybe a weber with a big magnet magnet will do the trick or the Jensen.
I will rig it so I can play it through the Jensen P12R to confirm.
Shbamac,
Yes I saw that amp on ebay and it looked awesome and saw he was looking to fund some mics so we did a trade. :) The Amp is pristine but a heavy sucker. :) Weighs in at about 50 pounds.
528hemi
Last Edited by on Feb 23, 2011 8:55 PM
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7LimitJI
398 posts
Feb 24, 2011
12:25 AM
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These are my choices for a stage gigging amp of approx 50Watts
10" are my weapon of choice.
Tight,crisp with plenty of bass and projection without being beamy.
15" with a very light cone are second, They give a more old school type sound, as they tend to round off the highs.Not as efficient as the 10's, but great tone.
8" in multiples are quite soft and round off the highs even more than the 15. I tried multiples of 4 and 8.
4 x 8" + 2x 10" is a good combo.
12" are my least favourite as they rolled off lots of highs and sounded a bit flat.
The caveat to all of the above is I only tried 2 different makes of 12"
3 different 8's
2 types of 15"
Lost count of the 10's I've tried.
Currently gigging with 4 x 10"
Going to try 2 x 15" soon
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chromaticblues
631 posts
Feb 24, 2011
5:57 AM
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I wouldn't dump the 15" to quickly. As pistolero said, you have to set the amp up for that speaker or a good 15" speaker. The amp in question would probably work better with 2 8" speakers though. I'd probably go that route. Run 2 4 ohm 8" speakers is series which will give you 8 ohms and I think you'd be happy with that. Now you just have to find two old alnico magnet speakers in good shape.
If you don't want to do that you can sell it to me!
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528hemi
183 posts
Feb 27, 2011
7:50 PM
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Here are some pictures.
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markdc70
55 posts
Feb 27, 2011
8:08 PM
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All I can say is those must have been a couple of nice mics! That's a beautiful and unique amp you've got there, regardless of what you do with speaker config!
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Joe_L
1101 posts
Feb 27, 2011
9:29 PM
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I've never thought that Masco PA were known for their high or mid frequency response.
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The Blues Photo Gallery
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Greg Heumann
1059 posts
Feb 27, 2011
10:46 PM
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@528 - different speakers sound different, even if the same size. Too many variables here to draw any scientific conclusion - different amps? All bets are off. Here's what I suggest - find some friends with amps or cabinets of differing speaker configs. Then run each FROM THE SAME AMP HEAD.
Gary Onofrio (Sonny Jr) did this for us at a Harmonica Masterclass amp seminar many years ago and it was a real eye opener. All the 4x10 cabs sounded, well, like 4x10's - the single 15's all had their characteristic sound, etc - the differences from one to the next within a particular category were far less noticeable. One thing I know - I like the sound from multiple speakers with total surface area "X" far better than the sound from an amp with a single speaker of the same surface area. On the other hand, there is a reason why single speaker amps are cheaper!
Gorgeous amp, by the way!
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/Greg
Last Edited by on Feb 27, 2011 10:46 PM
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boris_plotnikov
452 posts
Feb 28, 2011
3:02 AM
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Chhosing amps for your style is really PITA. For playing straight to tube amps I prefer 10' speakers. For playing with my lonewolf harpattack I love big solid state amps with 12' speakers (it defenitely maje any shitty amp harp-friendly).
I prefer fender pro jr over fender blues jr. I have no ideas how to check different speakers with different amps.
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Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
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528hemi
185 posts
Feb 28, 2011
10:56 AM
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Greg,
That would be the best thing to do but dont think I will get a chance to plug into multible cabinets to find the right combo. I did plug into my Jensen P12R reissue speaker and I did like the tone better, was crisper and the response better then the current 15" speaker.
Joe_L,
You are spot on, the Mids and higher frequencies are more round, not as crisp compared to the Multivox combo bass pushing the same speaker. The Multivox produces very clear sharp mids and highs whereas the Masco sounds still sounds fatter, rounder,smoother. The loudness of the 2 amps are about the same.
I think 2x8's as Chromaticblues mentions and what I heard Joe_L playing through might be what I am looking for. I wonder if I could fit 2 8's in that cabinet in place of that 15".
Hey Joe_L....Send me your Double trouble so I can try it. :)
Thanks for all your suggestions, I dont want to go buy all differnt speakers and do all kinds of Mods to this amp and spend a ton of dollars experimenting so really aprreciate your suggestions.
Maybe I should just sell this amp and get something that I dont have to muck around with.
Anyone around the Ny area that has a few cabinets to paly around with. :)
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Joe_L
1103 posts
Feb 28, 2011
12:21 PM
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@528hemi - I had that MA-17 on loan from Skip Simmons. It was a restored unit that he lets people try out, while he is working on their amps.
I took the setup from that video to a couple of jams to try out that MA-17. I plugged the speakers of the Double Trouble into the MA-17. It started feeding back before I could get enough volume out of it to be heard. Modern bands play too darn loud.
After one tune, I ended up plugging the speakers back into the Double Trouble amp. Same speakers. Same room. Same mic. Same player. I got much more usable volume out of the Double Trouble than the MA-17. plus it cut through the mix better. I was heard.
While the PA heads sound absolutely amazing, the amount of volume you can get out of them is limited. There is a reason why people don't use them to gig with. It's not the tone. It's the volume.
I loved that MA-17. I probably would have bought one from Skip, but I probably wouldn't have taken it outside the house very frequently.
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The Blues Photo Gallery
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528hemi
186 posts
Feb 28, 2011
1:36 PM
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Below is a quick sample of the MU-5, Multivox combo bass and the ME-18P. I am sure you can figure out which is which. Excuse my playing. I have been sick for 3 days. I am just a beginner/intermediate and have alot more to learn.
Playing with a Shure CR and recorded with my I-Phone.
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