toddlgreene
2612 posts
Feb 19, 2011
10:58 AM
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There is something to be said for a guitarist who knows how to play well with harp players-there are far too many who don't want to share the limelight. The trick they use is the same advice that harp players learn as they mature:leave some space.
Fact-the video contained some road-tested pro sidemen giving straight off-the-cuff answers to a question asked of them.
Should we automatically assume that one of them is full of shit because we didn't like one answer he gave? No, that's really not fair, and a bit harsh. Respect is a two-way street.
Now, let's not this thread get any uglier, please?
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Todd, the conservatively liberal moderate of the moderators
Eudora and Deep Soul
Last Edited by on Feb 19, 2011 11:02 AM
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waltertore
1088 posts
Feb 19, 2011
11:02 AM
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KingoBad: I wouldn't hold your breath. These angry types were always present at gigs. they would be pissed that they weren't on the stage instead of the touring band. On our breaks they would moan and groan about how their town doesn't support music. I told them to move to one that did. they never liked that answer........ Now they vent on these forums. The pros I still stay in touch with are very selective about doing these forums. Charlie Musselwhite contacted me a month or so ago and we reconnected. It was all done off forum. I think the best you will see is a video like this and an occasional post by one. Walter
PS: I miss playing full time at times but realize if I was playing full time dealing with forums would be very low on my fun things to do. I just got back from a great 25 mile bike ride, showered, posted a few here, and now am off to my studio to monkey with trying to get my amped harp sound on the rack figured. Life is good!
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
2,600+ of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on Feb 19, 2011 11:08 AM
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hvyj
1257 posts
Feb 19, 2011
11:38 AM
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Musicians who will tell you learning some keyboard will improve your harp playing are a dime a dozen AND THEY ARE ALL CORRECT. You don't have to have backed up Kim Wilson and Sugar Blue to reach that profound depth of musical sophistication.
I'm sure Rusty Zinn a great musician and a musically knowledgeable guy. I'm certain if he and I sat down in front of a piano or with him on his guitar he could show me stuff about music and blues that i would find mind expanding. He just isn't telling me anything specifically useful about harp playing in this vid, unlike the drummer and bass player who had extremely useful insights to share.
As Walter says, when pros share their take on things we learn fascinating things. What's fascinates me about Zinn's thoughts is how remarkable it is that musician of his caliber could spend so much time backing some of the best harp players in the world and have so little useful informatiom to share with those of us learning to play harp.
Just because I'm not into hero worship does not mean my ego is out of control. The source of the info doesn't ipso facto validate the info. Now that i know who he is, I certainly respect Zinn for his accomplishments. I just don't get much from what he has to say about learning to play harp--it's the content (or lack of substantive content) that I'm reacting to.
Look, if you are a top blues sideman who backs world class harp players for a living and a well known harmonica instructor is interviewing you about harp playing what are you supposed to do if you have nothing substantive to say? I guess you suggest that learning to play piano and guitar and working on vocals will sharpen musical skills. Okay, true enough as far as it goes. But, wow, I mean I'm supposed to take that sort of generality as a serious practical tip because of who said it? Just because I am capable of independent analytic thought and conclude that the guy has nothing substantive to say does not mean my ego is out of control.
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clyde
103 posts
Feb 19, 2011
12:07 PM
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i have not been playing with bands for a number of years but i wonder how many things change.
when i was many bands, for one reason or another, were always looking for someone to sing. for that reason and others i agree with rusty zinn about learning to sing and to play another instrumnt....and no it doesn't have to be a keyboard or guitar (try sax) you'll find many of your licks transfer over real nice.
my ex partner played with big bands for years and he would tell me about how most of the band hated the male singers. they just sat there all night until it was time for them to sing a song, while the rest of the guys blew their lips out. i think a lot of bands feel that way about harmonica players....more so when you pick up your mic, cord and case of 12 harps and head home while they carry their 200 lb marshall and everything else to the van.
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jodanchudan
255 posts
Feb 19, 2011
12:40 PM
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I'm totally in agreement with BBQBob, Greg, Kingley, waltertore and the others on this. Also, this is one clip from an interview - obviously, in the context of YouTube, it's being used to advertise the website. If you do check out the website, you'll find two long interviews with the band - about 30 videos like the one posted on YouTube (plus several other interviews where Mark Hummel interviews Rusty Zinn about how to back up a harp player). The content there is definitely substantial (or substantive or robust or whatever). It seems a little hysterical to attack it like this. It's as if I watched part of a jazz guitar tutorial video then became personally affronted because it didn't meet my specific needs (but perhaps it did elsewhere if I'd watched the rest, or perhaps it wasn't aimed at me in the first place, or perhaps they weren't fully informed about my personal requirements, values and beliefs when they filmed it). To take this clip and conclude the guy has nothing substantive to say - nothing! Nothing at all! - is clearly a generalisation. He knows what he's on about and I, like several others here, found the interviews helpful. I also agree with waltertore that it's this sort of overreaction that probably stops more pros sharing here and that's definitely regrettable.
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ol'bosey
47 posts
Feb 19, 2011
1:56 PM
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I think what some are overlooking here is that this video is geared towards a blues player looking to take it too the next step in terms of playing out or fronting a band. I thought it would be appreciated by most...just take what you like and run with it, and throw the rest out with the bathwater.
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roadharp
64 posts
Feb 19, 2011
1:57 PM
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how can you play a 12 bar blues if you dont know the chords or the 1 iv v progression.you have to know that much dont you.
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didjcripey
39 posts
Feb 19, 2011
3:14 PM
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I think it was Benjamin Franklin who said:
'Wise men don't need advice; fools won't take it'.
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Lucky Lester
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Matzen
19 posts
Feb 20, 2011
12:30 AM
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If you learn guitar you can record your own backing tracks!
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Jeffrey van Kippersl
18 posts
Feb 20, 2011
2:18 AM
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Imho, lots are mossing the point, he simply states that general development, seeing music from a differnet position in the band will help you grow as a whole, sorry but, if you cant do something with that?
See the core, and then decide wether you can do something with it, when not, ok. But please, stop these limited projections.
Last Edited by on Feb 20, 2011 2:23 AM
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thorvaldsen76
99 posts
Feb 20, 2011
4:00 AM
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I think each and every one of us should listen to advises that we get,deside if it's good or bad,and move on..
I have met guys with MUCH more knowledge than me. And they have loved to give me advises. That doesn't say that I have to follow all of it.. Just because you are a pro,doesn't mean that you know everything. But I wouldn't dream of being disrespectful towards them. Because somewhere down the line they could give you an advise that could be the biggest turningpoint in your playing..
So if I had the chance to talk to a guy like Rusty Zinn,I would listen carefully. I would sit down afterwards and deside what advise to follow and what not to follow. And keep on walking down the road,without calling him this or that..
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Joe_L
1087 posts
Feb 20, 2011
10:22 AM
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I've never gotten much advice from people. I can count the times that I received advice on one hand. Sometimes, it's not delivered with kindness.
1. "Don't stop playing."
2. "you play a lot of right shit and some wrong shit. Buy one of those recorders, use it and focus on playing the right shit."
3. "always bring your harps, otherwise you may miss an opportunity of a lifetime. A lot of us arent going to live forever."
4. "listen to everyone. Steal from everyone."
5. "you need to start singing. Muddy Waters and Willie Dixon are gone. The demand for non-singing harp players is at an all time low."
When i hear advice coming from world class players, I take heed and react accordingly.
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The Blues Photo Gallery
Last Edited by on Feb 20, 2011 11:08 AM
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Kingley
1456 posts
Feb 20, 2011
10:58 AM
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"you need to start singing. Muddy Waters and Willie Dixon are gone. The demand for non-singing harp players is at an all time low."
Hahaha! Joe - That may possibly be one of the best quotes I've ever heard regarding harmonica. I definitely stealing that one :-)
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Mojokane
296 posts
Feb 20, 2011
4:38 PM
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...hvyj is only 'playin' the forum .... (him and rusty are buddies)....ha!
I think we can stop strokin Rusty now..
if was me..
..anyone who knows anything, about blues harmonica accompaniment, already knows his prowess.
..let it go(full moon).
Not saying you're full of shit hvyj...everyone is untitled to their opinion, eh?
I know what they're saying is true...plain and simple. I appreciate their comments, too.
It was posted purely for the good of helping all of those who are reaching for a higher level of playing.
Unless ofcourse you have no plans of forming a band, or working with other players, successfully.
These are comments not often directly heard.
But are often thought of, by fellow musicians.
Or even band members in your own band.
Or these guys wouldn't be sitting there talking about it...
Vocal polish, correct tempo, the 'less is more' rule, dynamics or volume, playing for the room...tone and all that...wow!
But...I knew that already, eh?
Who the hell do they think they are?
Purely constructive critcism...unsolicited...mind you,but from the heart, no less.
More like that. That was great.
thanks, Ol'bosey...for posting.
Why is it that we all just can't get along?<
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