arzajac
460 posts
Feb 14, 2011
4:39 PM
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My youngest daughter gets mad at me when I make her practice the piano. Although she is very good at it, she hates to make mistakes and sometimes leaves the room in tears when she makes the slightest mistake while practicing (that usually means she needs a snack or she is tired after a long day - I should know better than to make her practice then...)
I tell her than learning happens best when we make mistakes.
Well, I learned a whole lot yesterday - My teacher and his wife hold sessions at a local bar for their students to play on stage.
I sang and played harp in front of a whole room full of people for the first time. I was so nervous. My mind went blank. My voice cracked. At one point David led me into a solo - he said "lean into the mic and blow!" and all I could do was blow a few awkward notes instead of playing the music that I normally can.
Definitely something to work on. Like jam tracks, this is something I need to go back to to learn from.
There is no substitute for this sort of thing. If I hadn't lectured my daughter about learning from failure, I probably wouldn't have been able to get out of bed this morning...
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thechangingcolors
16 posts
Feb 14, 2011
4:44 PM
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how old is your daughter? i think you might be doing something wrong with the whole "making her practice" the piano. if your making her do it shes probably not having much fun (hence being mad). and hopefully by 'lecture' you mean something more like encourage. but music is supposed to be fun, you dont want to force it on her..
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Littoral
271 posts
Feb 14, 2011
4:57 PM
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A phD I know once said "I find my mistakes really interesting ".
That comment was, to me, very profound.
Last Edited by on Feb 14, 2011 4:58 PM
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waltertore
1071 posts
Feb 14, 2011
5:56 PM
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"A phD I know once said "I find my mistakes really interesting ".
That comment was, to me, very profound. "
Me too that is why I live my musical life as I do. I live in mistakes. I have no idea what is coming out of me as I play/sing and mistakes abound. The most fun is in the mistakes. It puts you in unchartered waters and the fun part is exploring them without panicing and knowing that if I stay relaxed it will make the song a foever memorable one. It has take me years to get to this point. I find most rehearsed music boring because there are no mistakes. Society puts down these imaginary rules about mistakes and 99.999% of musicians follow them as gospel. Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
2,600+ of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
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Last Edited by on Feb 14, 2011 6:02 PM
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arzajac
461 posts
Feb 14, 2011
6:00 PM
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colors: She's six. And she loves playing piano and going to music lessons. It's the fact that she makes mistakes that bugs her.
It's a difficult situation - music is supposed to be fun. It's just not always possible to find those windows of opportunity when she is not cranky due to being tired or hungry to get her to practice.
And if we didn't "make" her practice a few times a week (or do homework, or brush her teeth), she just wouldn't do it...
Eharp: "but did you leave the room crying? "
Is that a bad sign?
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Last Edited by on Feb 14, 2011 6:01 PM
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KingoBad
607 posts
Feb 14, 2011
6:09 PM
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arzajac is doing nothing wrong by teaching her self discipline.
Many kids, especially smart ones, need to learn to deal with failure. When you are good at doing everything you try, a young child may have difficulty dealing with things they are not very good at. Better to tech them now that life is about overcoming adversity than let them cop out from facing challenge and stay comfortable their entire lives.
It is always humbling when your own lessons come home to roost, especially when you are right!
Nice work Arzjac, on getting out there to play and the parenting!
(I have a six year old daughter too)
Last Edited by on Feb 14, 2011 6:09 PM
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eharp
1155 posts
Feb 14, 2011
6:33 PM
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"Is that a bad sign?"
it is if you're a doctor!!
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thechangingcolors
18 posts
Feb 14, 2011
6:42 PM
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wait shes six years old, that would mean shes in like kindergarden--why does she even have homework??
well anyway, thats good that you get her to practice if shes good at it and likes playing. i was just thinking, you know sometimes when parents try to get their kids to do something, at a young age if the kid isnt really all for it it might make them less likely to continue pursuing it on their own later. of course if i had kids i would probably stick a harmonica in their hands at young age so just in case they were very naturally talented they could get an early start.
as far as your live preformance goes, it sounds like you got a little nervous with all the people watching eh. this is the same thing that happens to me, not with the harmonica but with the guitar. in front of other people im like a decent guitar player but when im alone in my room i get like super jimi hendrix guitar playing powers...and nobody believes me...il probably make a video sometime if i can steal a camera from somebody..
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Hollistonharper
215 posts
Feb 14, 2011
9:24 PM
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Hey Arzajac,
Don't kick yourself too hard. You've already said it, and on an intellectual level you know it, but allow yourself to really believe that every mistake truly is an opportunity to learn. I played out for the first time in December. I have a friend who has a duo, they invited me sit in on a couple songs. I was pretty nervous. it went ok on one song but on another I was pretty disappointed, even though others said it was pretty good. But just having gone through the experience of standing on stage was worth it. My point is I learned a lot, even though I didn't do great. For instance, I learned not to stand behind the speakers--I could barely hear myself play. But most of all I got a taste of playing in front of people in a packed bar and I realized that maybe I could do it.
I've since sat in a couple more times, by the last time 2 weeks ago, I reached the point where i actually felt like I was beginning to make some music rather than just trying to play notes. The bar owner even came up to me and said he really enjoyed my playing, and my buddy actually paid me $20!
So congratulations on your first step, it'll only get easier from here!
Also gotta do that +1 thing on Kingobad's comments. He may be bad, but he's a smart guy for sure.
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phogi
508 posts
Feb 15, 2011
3:08 AM
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colors,
While I know you are young and likely American, ask yourself these questions:
1) Do you really want you life to be controlled by what you wanted as a 6 year old?
2) Ever heard of a guy named Jim Webb? He's said more than once that his success is owed to his 'spare the rod and spoil the child' parents who made his practice everyday.
3) Most famous example - Beethoven. Who was smarter than Beethoven? His Father. History makes him out as an abusive drunk, but you know what? Without him making his kid practice the world would have been deprived of one of its greatest composers.
4) Childhood is where you learn your attitudes for life. I fear for America because a certain attitude is becoming pervasive: the idea that nothing in childhood should be difficult. Or worse - mom and dad get divorced and then vie for the child's love, each by being more permissive, less demanding, and want to be 'the good guy' in the child's eyes. While this will self correct in a generation, it has already done significant damage to our country's work ethic, image, and economy.
5) Having a child learn an instrument pays dividends in so many ways, even if they do not like it at first. It took me 10 years to like the Piano. Yet my piano skills payed for college and set me up for my career, which pays well and is rewarding.
You say it is fine if 'she likes it and is good at it.' and don't 'force it on her.' I could not disagree more. A child must be taught work ethic, or they will never have it.
Lastly, you never know what the future will bring for a child. Don't short change them by not making them invest in their youth...
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7LimitJI
394 posts
Feb 15, 2011
3:46 AM
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My daughter is nine and she started playing piano 2 years ago.
Up until recently, she often cried whilst playing, due to frustration at finding it difficult.
I have gently informed her that nothing that is worth having comes easy in life.
She does not cry any more.I reckon its a part of growing up.
I still have to remind her to practise though !!
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The Pentatonics Myspace
Youtube
"Why don't you leave some holes when you play, and maybe some music will fall out".
"It's music,not just complicated noise".
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thechangingcolors
21 posts
Feb 15, 2011
3:48 AM
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phogi, well you certainly have a right to your oppinion man, and you make some good points but all in all im going to have to disagree with you. first of all you over value work ethic by alot. now a days this capitalist society tries to make it seem as though its actually a moral obligation to work hard and be benificial to this crazy consumer economy, but thats all nonesense. that way of life wont last long anyway, and either way youll never catch me trying to be a part of it.
as far as his daughter goes i understand of course the need for parenting, and theres nothing wrong with a parent guiding their child. i was just trying to make the point that it should be fun for her. if you make a child practice to the point where they dont enjoy it some children might never enjoy it and when they are old enough to make their own decisions they might never play anything. of course it sounds like this is not really the case with his daughter, but if you read the first sentence "My youngest daughter gets mad at me when I make her practice the piano" it sounds like she gets mad at him when he makes her practice the piano, which to mean implies that she doesnt enjoy it, but as he explained in another post thats not the case.
do i want my life to be controlled by the things i wanted as a six year old? better that then be controlled by this insane capitalist/representative 'democracy' that i never really agreed to be part of in the first place..
Last Edited by on Feb 15, 2011 3:51 AM
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phogi
509 posts
Feb 15, 2011
4:30 AM
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I'm not sure where you are getting that message. The only message I get from 'capitalist/consumer' society is that wealth comes from privledge, prior wealth, luck, or crime. Oh, and buy, buy, buy. A bunch of crap. I'm not into it either.
What I'm saying has nothing to do with all that. Just this - we must not only value what we like at the moment, we must also keep our eyes on what we might want to be able to do in the future. In other words, to build a platform from which to launch.
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Rubes
234 posts
Feb 15, 2011
4:42 AM
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I've got a six year old girl also, and one thing is for sure, every day is new territory! And ah, the ideals I had before kids, HA!
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Baker
107 posts
Feb 15, 2011
5:11 AM
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I think mistakes are a vital part of learning anything. How else do we know how to get it right if we never get it wrong.
One of the bands I play in at the moment, the singers have very little live experience. We deliberately go and play at small open mic nights knowing there will probably be mistakes, purely to learn about those mistakes and how me might deal with them.
I have been watching Victor Wooten's DVD (On Chris M's recommendation). Victor makes the interesting point: if music is a language, which I'm sure most of us agree that it is, think about how we all learned our own native languages. We heard it being spoken around us, we tried to imitate, we were given an environment in which to make mistakes without consequence, sometimes even encouraged. We developed the ability to express often complex and abstract ideas through that medium. – I would highly recommend getting a copy if you can. There are some really interesting musical ideas discussed there. It's not just for bass players.
I started learning the guitar when I was 8. I wanted to learn because I wanted to be a rock star HA :) Although I hated practicing and I hated going to lessons. My parents made me go and made me practice. When I got a bit older I stopped. By the time I was 20 I became interested in music again and all that information I had soaked up as a child was all still in there and now I spend most of my free time playing music in one form or another. Personally I can't thank my parents enough for making me go, even though at the time I'd rather have been down the park playing football (soccer) with my friends.
Last Edited by on Feb 15, 2011 5:25 AM
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Miles Dewar
727 posts
Feb 15, 2011
5:18 AM
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Colors,
"do i want my life to be controlled by the things i wanted as a six year old? better that then be controlled by this insane capitalist/representative 'democracy' that i never really agreed to be part of in the first place.."
Just move already. Upstanding citizens of this country most likely don't want lazy people who hate our government for no reason here.... What's a better place, Yemen? Qatar? Thailand? Do THEY have a democracy that you would be willing to be apart of?
"now a days this capitalist society tries to make it seem as though its actually a moral obligation to work hard and be benificial to this crazy consumer economy, but thats all nonesense"
You make minimum wage, don't you? And your boss probably doesn't like you.
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Baker
108 posts
Feb 15, 2011
5:31 AM
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@Colors – I don't think a strong work ethic is necessarily about a capitalist system. If you decide to try and live outside the "insane capitalist/representative 'democracy'" – which personally I feel is an entirely interesting prospect – then you will need to get up early, plough your fields, feed your chickens milk you cows etc. This will require a much stronger work ethic than rolling out of bed at 10am and driving to your job and McDonalds
:)
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hvyj
1239 posts
Feb 15, 2011
5:42 AM
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we learn from mistakes. i frequently say that a player who has developed basic competence on the instrument will learn more in 20 minutes live on stage playing in public with other musicians than that player is likely to learn practicing for a month at home by himself or playing along with jam tracks.
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arzajac
462 posts
Feb 15, 2011
5:44 AM
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Wow! Lots of people are parents to six-year-olds!
KingoBad - Thanks. And yes, that's exactly how I feel about dealing with failure.
Colors: I think I know what you mean about the capitalist society mentality - When I first met my wife, on our first date, actually, we discussed our views on parenting.
At the time, she made more money than I did. I expressed that I find it important for one parent to be a stay-at-home parent. We both felt that way and up until the point where I started to make more money than her, the stay-at-home parent was going to be me.
It's a really hard job - you have no idea. And the fact that some people think that a stay-at-home parent "gets" to stay home and *relax* while the other goes to work allows them to judge you and think that one of you is lazy and the other is clueless. Annoying. Especially since it is way easier to just go to work for eight hours a day and get paid for doing simple tasks.
The result is that our household has a much lower income than others. Big deal. It's a choice. Like you imply, it's not a moral obligation to make as much money as you possibly can. Especially when you can be pouring that effort into your kids.
Anyway, everyone, and I mean *everyone* has an opinion about how to best raise their kids. If you ever have kids, I'm sure you are going to find yourself asking why everyone is suddenly giving you their opinion about your kids...
I really wanted to talk about getting the most out of screwing up. My hope is that it won't have to be such an embarrassing performance the next time. But I have a feeling that no matter how much I dissect what happened, it will come down to my just having to keep doing it over and over again to get better at it.
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toddlgreene
2573 posts
Feb 15, 2011
5:47 AM
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True, hvyj. Playing at home, you hear and only have to play with you. Live, you have to listen to and play with everyone else. All the woodshedding in the world won't necessarily make you a good live performer, as the learning process starts all over onstage. But, you don't wanna beat yourself up onstage and run off crying when you flub a little, either. That's why I teach my kids to accept their mistakes and learn from them at home on their respective instruments.
Arza, I've got four kids-
24 yr old stepson(into musical theater and voice)
17 yr old son-percussionist and the newest member of the DCI World-Class Bluecoats
7 yr old daughter-talented singer and budding guitarist-she somewhat listens to what I teach her, but needs formal lessons.
6 yr old son-likes to beat the hell out his drums, but doesn't yet take well to instruction-he just wants to have fun!
Never a dull moment.
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Todd
Eudora and Deep Soul
Last Edited by on Feb 15, 2011 5:53 AM
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Rubes
235 posts
Feb 15, 2011
1:54 PM
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Now there's many reasons in this here thread why our band 'Dads in Space' has evolved!!!!! To all you dads, make sure you get some SPACE!!
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